I hate the M50 [Warning post #222]

Irish Steve

While this is no excuse for some of the behaviour that's been discussed in preceding posts, there is an issue with a significant number of vehicles, and that is the accuracy of the speedo. If I have the choice of believing a GPS or the vehicle speedo, then I am going to believe the GPS, in that if a GPS is recording the wrong speed, it invalidates all of the calculations that the device is performing, and at this stage, the GPS calculations have been proved by regular usage, and if I am checking a speedo, the speed on the GPS is used on the basis of steady speed in a straight line, just to be sure that it's not distorted.

I have seen vehicle speedos that are as much as 15 Kph wrong at 120 Kph, so an indicated 120 Kph is in reality significantly less than the actual speed, my wife's car, (a small Fiat) has to be doing an indicated 134 to actually be travelling at 120 Kph, and it's on the correct size tyres that are correctly inflated. A good few years ago, my parents had an automatic Escort, and that was similarly inaccurate, we did a test on one trip, and an indicated 70 Mph (in the UK) was an actual 58 Mph. The result of these issues is a significant number of drivers who's attitude is "I'm doing the limit, so I'm not going to move into the slow lane", but the reality is that they are NOT doing the limit, not even close, so they should be moving over. OK, if I was to be really picky. even if they are doing "the limit", if there's nothing in Lane 1, that's where they should be, but that's probably an ask too far for a significant number of drivers in this country.

I've not looked into the required accuracy, I have a vague recollection that the aim is for no more than 10% over, and that it must not under read, but that may be out of date at this stage. Having said that, if it is 10% over reading, the indicated 120 is an actual 108, and on a long trip, that can be a significant increase in the trip time. Most modern electronic systems are more accurate, and the older mechanical speedos are the more likely to be inaccurate.

Commercial vehicles with tachometers tend to be a lot more accurate, as the calibration requirements are much more stringent, both in terms of their speed and the speed at which they are governed, which has the down side of being the cause of the log jam effect as 2 trucks along side each other take several minutes to actually pass, because of the speed limiters.

As for what can be done about this, the harsh truth is that nothing can be done. If the speedo meets the legal requirement for accuracy, it may well be significantly over reading, but persuading an owner to check the accuracy of their speedo just is not going to be practical, so we're stuck with the problem that there will be significant numbers of people who are not going to move out of the way on the motorways, even though they should be doing so.

HeidiHeidi

Why do so many people seem to have a problem grasping the concept that it doesn't matter WHAT speed you're doing, be it 50kph, 150 kph or anything in between - unless you're overtaking another vehicle, you should be in the left-most lane of a multi-lane road?

I am genuinely puzzled by this, and really wonder what it would take to get it into people's heads.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Charles Babbage

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I highly doubt that tbh, and if it's close to capacity, drop the limit to 80, this will actually increase capacity again

Why do you doubt it? The AADT in the central section is now 140,000 and traffic has increased on several sections by 20% in 2 years.

What is ridiculous is that there is a 'study' on the variable speed limits. The planning should have been done in 2013 when volumes were reduced, ready to go now. Another example of this useless government telling everyone that the economy would recover, but making no plans whatsoever for that.

More crazy when you consider that facts that the gantries have been in place foe almost a decade at this stage.
Variable speed limits and advance warning systems of queues could have been introduced years ago!
The question has to be why the fúck haven't they been implemented!!!!

Charles Babbage

Deleted User wrote: »

More crazy when you consider that facts that the gantries have been in place foe almost a decade at this stage.
Variable speed limits and advance warning systems of queues could have been introduced years ago!
The question has to be why the fúck haven't they been implemented!!!!

They weren't really needed and weren't a vital use of money in the hard times, but there should have been a plan to launch them when traffic reached x and now it is x+15%!

First Up

shootermacg wrote:

This is why i told you it doesn't matter what lane a person is driving in. Your responsibility to the public is not dependent on what someone else is doing.

100% wrong mate. Being aware of what other people are doing is a major part of your responsibility on the road.

I don't condone or engage in tailgating (your obsession by the look of it) but it ansolutely matters that people on a 3 lane mororway understand how it is supposed to work.

People sleeping in the middle lane cause massive inconvenience. That leads to frustration and that leads to accidents. We have them every day on the M50. Do you think that is just a coincidence?

shootermacg

First Up wrote: »

People sleeping in the middle lane cause massive inconvenience. That leads to frustration and that leads to accidents. We have them every day on the M50. Do you think that is just a coincidence?

Again you just do not get it. Of course I was in the correct lane for what I was doing. Not need to clarify my position any further than that. From your post you pretty much excuse bad driving, by shifting the blame onto a perceived inconvenience.

Right last time (deep breath): You are responsible for your own driving! Blaming other people for your actions on the road is not only immature in the extreme, bur psychotic in the extreme.

People inconveniencing other people happens in all walks of life and in all activities. Your job as an adult is to rise above this, not to use a 2 ton car as an extension of your bad mood.

I'm happy that I won't have to address your points again, it seems pointless to me to bother, when you fail to take on this simple fact.

First Up

shootermacg wrote:

People inconveniencing other people happens in all walks of life and in all activities. Your job as an adult is to rise above this, not to use a 2 ton car as an extension of your bad mood.

PM me your address and I'll send you a copy of the Rules of the Road for Christmas

_Kaiser_

The M50 should really be declassified to N-road status. There's just too much traffic at peak and junctions that are too close together (J7-11) for normal motorway rules and etiquette to apply.

On a standard two-lane motorway you can generally happily cruise along in the left lane for miles, overtaking occasionally in a leisurely maneuver (if you do it right, as opposed to swerving right at the last minute and regardless of whether there's already another vehicle there) and returning then to the left lane to continue unhindered. When coming to a junction you usually have plenty of time to get into position and exit safely. When joining, most people will move right if safe to do so to accomodate you and you can do likewise.

Contrast to the M50...

Trucks and dawdlers in lane 1, people using auxiliary lanes as mainline driving lanes and only moving out at the last minute (eg: J9-10 or J14 or even J9 Naas on the N7 - in the latter cases the road does become 2 lanes beyond that point but regular commuters will know this yet still try to jump the queue and cause gridlock anyway!) either from a lack of ability to read/plan ahead, or trying to skip traffic, people who won't move right to allow merging traffic (when there's no reason they couldn't) with the result that the merging lane slows to a crawl at the end of it (eg: N7 to M50S), and all made worse by people not keeping up with the flow of the rest of the traffic or undertaking rather than changing lanes properly. Add to that then traffic merging and leaving every few hundred metres along this stretch and it's no wonder there's problems!

Personally during peak I usually sit out in lane 3 (along this particular stretch - J7-11) as I'm travelling past several junctions. I keep up with the traffic ahead of me (which isn't the same as tailgating) or I drive at/slightly above the limit if no reason not to. When appropriate I move left but not to the point of weaving between lanes every few hundred metres and I ALWAYS INDICATE in good time - even on an empty road - as opposed to the idiots who don't bother at all but drift left/right anyway while they make up their minds, or who indicate when already halfway between lanes.

In short, you can't apply standard motorway rules to the M50 - it's too busy and with too many junctions and trying to "keep left" regardless just makes everything more stressful and indeed dangerous IMO.

First Up

At peak time when all lanes are full - no problem. Its just a shuffle and I understand the ligic of using lanes 2 (or 3) to avoid getting caught in the exit ramp congestion.

That's not the same as someone sitting in lane 2 doing 80 or 90 and forcing faster traffic to either illegally undertake or perform a 3 lane manouver to pass. That is the stuff I'm talking about and that I see every day.

kidneyfan

First Up wrote: »

Zero?

There are problems on the M50 throughout the day and a major contributor is the middle lane being almost pernanently full, often with cars travelling faster in both the other lanes.

This means that one of the fundamental purposes of a 3 lane motorway is rendered inoperable as traffic is unable to move freely and use the lane appropriate to their desired speed.This causes many of the risky manouvres listed above.

Of course it is not the only cause of accidents but to say it has zero to do with it is ridiculous.

It isn't a riddle just stay in the middle!
Left for slow, Right for fast and Middle for middle!

kidneyfan

kidneyfan wrote: »

It isn't a riddle just stay in the middle!
Left for slow, Right for fast and Middle for middle!

You MUST! watch this video, it was made for people just like you!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7dczF-grdw

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

You MUST! watch this video, it was made for people just like you!

Funny part of that video is the cop car spends most of its time in the wrong lane as well - he complains about an Audi undertaking for example (which is valid), but yet there's plenty of room ahead of it and the squad car in both lanes, so why wasn't the latter in lane 1 too? (although watching it again, I think the Audi is actually ahead of him in lane 1 a few seconds earlier anyway... yep they're just about to pass it when he starts his complaint)

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Funny part of that video is the cop car spends most of its time in the wrong lane as well - he complains about an Audi undertaking for example (which is valid), but yet there's plenty of room ahead of it and the squad car in both lanes, so why wasn't the latter in lane 1 too? (although watching it again, I think the Audi is actually ahead of him in lane 1 a few seconds earlier anyway... yep they're just about to pass it when he starts his complaint)

He was actually "policing" the middle lane, the dawdlers should have been moving left, but they didn't. That's why they were stopped!

paddyland

The tragedy of all of this, is that here we have a thread about why 'I hate the M50,' and then everyone comes on and complains about the M50, while making statements that plainly show they are part of the problem. It's not that they cannot see this, it's that they don't want to see this. 'Winning' the debate, scoring points, is more important than educating themselves.

But then, that's this forum all over. It's all just a cheap point-scoring exercise, not a forum for information or education at all.

Good luck. I've got some drying paint to watch.

WindomEarle

paddyland wrote: »

The tragedy of all of this, is that here we have a thread about why 'I hate the M50,' and then everyone comes on and complains about the M50, while making statements that plainly show they are part of the problem. It's not that they cannot see this, it's that they don't want to see this.

It's like all those people sitting in traffic, complaining about traffic. They are traffic.

kidneyfan

WindomEarle wrote: »

It's like all those people sitting in traffic, complaining about traffic. They are traffic.

Speak for yourself.

_Kaiser_

Deleted User wrote: »

He was actually "policing" the middle lane, the dawdlers should have been moving left, but they didn't. That's why they were stopped!

Oh I dunno.. "edited for television" comes to mind. Like how he comes up alongside the Audi that's (correctly) in lane 1, but for "dramatic effect" he slows enough that it "undertakes" him so they can make their point on camera :rolleyes:

Certainly AGS here are as bad as anyone else for routine breaking of traffic laws (wrong lanes, speeding, tailgating even - had 3 lads in a marked jeep try to get into my back seat one morning despite both lanes being heavy traffic).. and yes in many cases they're exempt but it was previously confirmed that they should abide by them unless on an active call.

magicbastarder

the M50 is front page on the indo today:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/m50-motorway-or-carpark-how-irelands-busiest-route-is-at-breakdown-point-35155501.html

and would you believe:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/crash-on-the-m50-causes-lengthy-delays-for-commuters-35155913.html

h57xiucj2z946q

Also here: http://www.herald.ie/news/m50-reaching-point-of-breakdown-as-vehicle-levels-hit-159000-a-day-35154753.html
and : http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/paul-melia-politicians-are-failing-to-keep-the-capital-moving-35155503.html

_Kaiser_

You can be sure the only measure that are implemented though will be ones designed to take more money from motorists but dressed up as something else, and ultimately do nothing to address the real issues... poor driving standards, no enforcement of anything bar "Speeding" or tax checks, poor junction designs, and ultimately a situation where people are making significant journeys every day because of a lack of available housing inside the M50.

VisibleGorilla

Seen it all again this morning;

• Extreme tailgating.
• Straight into the middle lane after merging.
• Merging at extremely low speed.
• Leaving it last minute for exit, crossing the markings.
• Constant lane switching to get 1m ahead.
• Changing lanes without indicating.
• Putting on make up/Mobile Phone use.

Iseedeadpixels

3 things in life guaranteed

1.Death
2.Taxes
3.Mayhem on the M50

ChikiChiki

Absolute joke the volume of accidents, it really is. I think one cause is housing and the amount of cars being unneccessarily forced onto the roads as people are forced to live further out. Dublin needs high rise.

Very frustrating.

plodder

Thank God I don't use it much at peak times, but some of what you see would make you laugh, eg traveling the entire journey in the exit lane, including exiting and re-entering at each junction. I bet the designers didn't anticipate that nonsense.

One thing they might have to look at as well (which would fix the above co-incidentally) is metering lights at the entrances. In some parts of the US, they use this, where you have a traffic light on the entrance ramp, and only one car is allowed to enter per green sequence. The sequence changes quickly, so you're not waiting that long, but it smoothens the flow entering and avoids some of the merging problems.

plodder

ThisRegard wrote: »

Metering wouldn't work on the M50 as it will back up all the feeder roads and just spread the problem out further, actually making things worse.

It would work at some junctions, eg where the feeder roads are motorways/dual carriage ways themselves, so long as only the lane leading to the M50 gets blocked/delayed. The aim would actually be to spread the problem out further.

ThisRegard

Take the N3 for example, slow the approach to the M50 on the N3 inbound and it has a massive affect on the surrounding area, it would also slow and back up traffic trying to take the M50 northbound which is usually fairly free flowing in the mornings.

It makes more sense to have the traffic on the M50.

GM228

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Certainly AGS here are as bad as anyone else for routine breaking of traffic laws (wrong lanes, speeding, tailgating even - had 3 lads in a marked jeep try to get into my back seat one morning despite both lanes being heavy traffic).. and yes in many cases they're exempt but it was previously confirmed that they should abide by them unless on an active call.

They are exempt from traffic laws during the course of their duties, i.e when on duty- not just when on an active call, you can't break a law which doesn't apply to you and you can't expect someone to abide by a law which is irrelevant to you.

plodder

ThisRegard wrote: »

Take the N3 for example, slow the approach to the M50 on the N3 inbound and it has a massive affect on the surrounding area, it would also slow and back up traffic trying to take the M50 northbound which is usually fairly free flowing in the mornings.

It makes more sense to have the traffic on the M50.

It doesn't make sense to just keep piling traffic onto the M50 if it's not moving.

There's four lanes on the N3 approaching the M50, with separate ones for M50 North, city centre and M50 South. M50 South being the most likely to get congested and these are the right most two.

I think you'd have to do some modelling to see whether the effect would be beneficial overall. I think it's worth looking at.