Eir rural FTTH thread

Bored Accountant

banjopeter wrote: »

Just got a call from the same number. Same story, team in the area, "Would you be OK for tomorrow?" Would I what!

I think once a date is given, KN contact you and move the appointments to suit their technicians in the area. You will still probably get a text/email before the original appointment as not all systems know KN came out early!!

Grumpypants

banjopeter wrote: »

Just got a call from the same number. Same story, team in the area, "Would you be OK for tomorrow?" Would I what!

Imagine after all this we were like, ah tomorrow doesn't suit can you come back mid July :pac:

Johnboy1951

Grumpypants wrote: »

Imagine after all this we were like, ah tomorrow doesn't suit can you come back mid July :pac:

A hard projectile comes to mind!

Dero

It's great to see such acceleration in the install rate. I'm in an intervention area of an enabled exchange (a couple of km from long_b), and I'm starting to believe that I'll see FTTH in the reasonably near future* (albeit heavily dependant on the expeditious awarding and rollout of the NBP contract).

* Still in the order of years away, but less than indefinitely.

BorneTobyWilde

Is this 1 TB per month a issue ? Seems to be an issue with some for sure who are arguing over the words ' ''absolutely no usage limits '' and then getting a bill saying they went over the limit and that they should look at the
fine print that is in this size

1 TB per month

Gonzo

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Is this 1 TB per month a issue ? Seems to be an issue with some for sure who are arguing over the words ' ''absolutely no usage limits '' and then getting a bill saying they went over the limit and that they should look at the
fine print that is in this size

1 TB per month

It's more than just the limit that people are arguing over. It's the fact that the website does state in plain english that there are absolutely no usage limits, these words were updated on the Eir website last week, a doubling down on the 'unlimited'. What's worse than that is we all assumed that the fair usage policy resets on the last date of each month and that the usage calculator on 'my eir' is an accurate method of tracking your data, however it is by customer billing cycle. This means every customer has to find out what dates their billing cycle is and try and estimate how much was downloaded because the billing cycle most likely crosses over 2 months making it almost impossible to work out the usage.

I am not one bit surprised people are snapping over the whole issue.

Gonzo

the billing cycle is explained more in this post

https://community.eir.ie/broadband-25/warning-eir-charging-100-extra-even-though-im-under-under-1gb-limit-unlimited-plan-292993

The reason why this is so unfair on the customer is because it is impossible to work out your usage between 2 specific dates. The data tracker only shows what you have used from the 1st of every month and it is not possible to see a day to day breakdown. The tracker also only updates after 24 hours, it's not real time.

MajesticDonkey

Gonzo wrote: »

I am not one bit surprised people are snapping over the whole issue.

What I am surprised about is people who are defending this behaviour by eir (and other companies of course), and saying it shouldn't be a big issue...

Gonzo

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

What I am surprised about is people who are defending this behaviour by eir (and other companies of course), and saying it shouldn't be a big issue...

I don't get it either, perhaps they are employees of service providers or just don't know what they are talking about.

When people think of a 1tb usage policy they think of 'downloading'. For some reason alot of people don't see services such as Netflix, Social Media or Sky Player as 'downloading'. Many have no idea that binge watching their favourite tv shows on a nightly basis in 1080p while the kids have youtube, Netflix, WWE Network or what ever other streaming service on for hours on their tablets. It doesn't occur to them all that this video data is using up all their monthly data allowance.

Bored Accountant

Gonzo wrote: »

I am not one bit surprised people are snapping over the whole issue.

I think the response years ago to a comreg investigation, was that there are no usage limits ie you can use it at any time of the day with no limits to the speed due to congestion.
The FUP relates to the download allowance. None of the advertisements mention download allowances or caps.

But obviously Fair Usuage Policy should be fair and it no longer is...

Gonzo

Bored Accountant wrote: »

I think the response years ago to a comreg investigation, was that there are no usage limits ie you can use it at any time of the day with no limits to the speed due to congestion.
The FUP relates to the download allowance. None of the advertisements mention download allowances or caps.

But obviously Fair Usage Policy should be fair and it no longer is...

Eir's fair usage policy was grand for a long time, they even turned a blind eye to people who went over the allowance, but over the past 6 months there has been a definite change.

Eir have spent the past 6 years building a network and a very good one at that. They relaunched with a new identity hoping to erase the past. Their actions recently lying about unlimited, hiding it and making it impossible for a customer to track their usage using a data calculation which does not relate to a customers monthly usage within billing cycle.

This is starting to sound like the old eircom. Eir need to act fast to fix this problem, many more are gonna sign up for FTTH, many more are gonna break the allowance without knowing and many more will get charged 100 euros.

Buckmickley

I do agree unlimited should be unlimited

That said A terabyte is 1000 gigs
Most houses wouldn't use 33 gigs a day averaging out over a month surely?
Most average households that is
Most average households aren't doing a ginormous game update everyday

If 3 kids came home at 5 pm and simultaneously watched 5hrs of hd on 5 different tablets maybe ,that'd be 45 gigs a day alright leaving no room for ANYTHING else but seriously what house does that go on in unchecked by mammy and daddy?

Gonzo

Buckmickley wrote: »

I do agree unlimited should be unlimited

That said A terabyte is 1000 gigs
Most houses wouldn't use 33 gigs a day averaging out over a month surely?
Most average households that is
Most average households aren't doing a ginormous game update everyday

If 3 kids came home at 5 pm and simultaneously watched 5hrs of hd on 5 different tablets maybe ,that'd be 45 gigs a day alright leaving no room for ANYTHING else but seriously what house does that go on in unchecked by mammy and daddy?

5 hours of 1080p x 5 devices = 25 hours @3gigs per hour = 75 gigs

they would use the allowance within 13 days if they did nothing else but that.

half of that, 2.5 hours a day, 5 devices, the allowance would be busted in 26 days leaving no room for any other usage.

It's easy to break that cap in a family situation.

long_b

Buckmickley wrote: »

I do agree unlimited should be unlimited

That said A terabyte is 1000 gigs
Most houses wouldn't use 33 gigs a day averaging out over a month surely?
Most average households that is
Most average households aren't doing a ginormous game update everyday

If 3 kids came home at 5 pm and simultaneously watched 5hrs of hd on 5 different tablets maybe ,that'd be 45 gigs a day alright leaving no room for ANYTHING else but seriously what house does that go on in unchecked by mammy and daddy?

Add in
Photo and video backups to Google, OneDrive from 5 phones
Windows monthly updates
Sky on demand TV pre caching entire series in HD
Games updates

All very common.
Add in a little in a few speed tests in your first month. Blow through 1TB no bother.

Buckmickley

Gonzo wrote: »

5 hours of 1080p x 5 devices = 25 hours @3gigs per hour = 75 gigs

they would use the allowance within 13 days if they did nothing else but that.

half of that, 2.5 hours a day, 5 devices, the allowance would be busted in 26 days leaving no room for any other usage.

It's easy to break that cap in a family situation.

In my house it would happen only once and then there'd be shlaps
No one parenting properly in my opinion should allow their kids breach the terms of a service mammy and daddy are paying for to that extent
It's unhealthy and expensive

Gonzo

Buckmickley wrote: »

In my house it would happen only once and then there'd be shlaps
No one parenting properly in my opinion should allow their kids breach the terms of a service mammy and daddy are paying for to that extent
It's unhealthy and expensive

I was giving an example if they did nothing else but streaming, how easy it is to break the cap.

When you add in parents usage, work, wifi, your down to alot less than 2 hours a day streaming.

Also if you have to tell everyone to stop using Netflix after an hour because it can eat into the fair usage policy, that in itself defeats the purpose of having a fast connection in the first place.

overtime

Buckmickley wrote: »

In my house it would happen only once and then there'd be shlaps
No one parenting properly in my opinion should allow their kids breach the terms of a service mammy and daddy are paying for to that extent
It's unhealthy and expensive

If Netflix was streamed at 4K / UHD it would only take about 4.7 hrs a day for you to be hitting your daily allowance.

Buckmickley

Ah lad,no ones going to have to restrict Netflix to an hour,that's a bit extreme
In the minority of cases over limit (and yes there shouldn't be a limit if it's marketed as unlimited) where there's no competition without a FUP,households will cope
I do think it's a tiny minority of households though that would couch potato away 33gigs the whole evening from 6pm to midnight every night
Too many people have lives and besides loads of people use pvr functions as much as they do on demand stuff
Speaking of life,I'll leave it at that,I've to go change a nappy :O

Grumpypants

The FUP isnt my main issue. It is that you have no way to view your usage, they dont warn you that you are close, or have gone over the limit and then hit you with a huge charge that tripples your bill.

If they sent a text at 950gb you could reduce usage until the next month.

rob808

Gonzo wrote: »

I was giving an example if they did nothing else but streaming, how easy it is to break the cap.

When you add in parents usage, work, wifi, your down to alot less than 2 hours a day streaming.

Also if you have to tell everyone to stop using Netflix after an hour because it can eat into the fair usage policy, that in itself defeats the purpose of having a fast connection in the first place.

well you could alway watch Netflix in 360p or 480p and watch hours and not use up to much data.I think 4K pointless with 1TB so nobody going to do it use sky instead to watch 4K.

GalwayMagpie

Do Magnet have a FUP ?

Gonzo

rob808 wrote: »

well you could alway watch Netflix in 360p or 480p and watch hours and not use up to much data.I think 4K pointless with 1TB so nobody going to do it use sky instead to watch 4K.

Im not gonna do that!, not on a FTTH connection! Whole point of it is to watch stuff in decent quality without buffering. It's Imagine customers who should probably lower below 1080p, their cap is far more restricting.

I would only recommend 4k streaming to people with Virgin Media, there is no point in above 1080p on services with usage caps.

Gonzo

GalwayMagpie wrote: »

Do Magnet have a FUP ?

it says they don't. It says unlimited downloads which could mean anything, probably best to contact them directly.

They don't resell Eir's FTTH either.

overtime

Running speed tests over ethernet, I wasn't too happy with results I was getting as they were only about half speeds. Both machines were older Macs but running latest OS and up to date browsers - had tested on Chrome, Safari and Firefox; Chrome for some reason returned higher pings (double and triple more). Finally I downloaded the Ookla App and started getting more realistic results:

Pangea

Eir pride themselves on 'Eir Sports' which is bound to use up a lot of gbs I'm guessing?

marno21

Pangea wrote: »

Eir pride themselves on 'Eir Sports' which is bound to use up a lot of gbs I'm guessing?

No, it's SD only and not that high quality.

9726_9726

If the FUP hits less than 1% of users, they can say "unlimited", which of course, is shady as hell.

The new "absolutely no limits" wording is ratcheting up the level of lies unfortunately, which puts pressure on the market and frankly, is a disgrace. I really can't believe the neck of them.

How can Provider X go to market with "limited" (and be honest) now in the face of these lies, and expect to compete?

Eir retail are distorting the market, and consumers' expectations. GPON is a contended (albeit plentiful) bandwidth technology and Openeir *do* charge operators by volume, so high usage does actually cost more to provide, so in short.....

Heavy users cost more to serve.

If they are not billed more, then the cost needs to be averaged over the entire user-base, which means the package price is higher for everybody. So which do people want?

Everyone pays a bit more or bandwidth hogs in a neighbourhood (GPON island) pay a chunk more for their heavy usage of that neighbourhood's shared resource?

The former could work, the price goes up for everybody, but nobody has to worry about usage.

The latter (current situation) could work too, but with *honest* advertising and clear pricing, policies and the ability to measure usage, it would at least be clear to people and fair.

Gonzo

9726_9726 wrote: »

If the FUP hits less than 1% of users, they can say "unlimited", which of course, is shady as hell.

The new "absolutely no limits" wording is ratcheting up the level of lies unfortunately, which puts pressure on the market and frankly, is a disgrace. I really can't believe the neck of them.

How can Provider X go to market with "limited" (and be honest) now in the face of these lies, and expect to compete?

Eir retail are distorting the market, and consumers' expectations. GPON is a contended (albeit plentiful) bandwidth technology and Openeir *do* charge operators by volume, so high usage does actually cost more to provide, so in short.....

Heavy users cost more to serve.

If they are not billed more, then the cost needs to be averaged over the entire user-base, which means the package price is higher for everybody. So which do people want?

Everyone pays a bit more or bandwidth hogs in a neighbourhood (GPON island) pay a chunk more for their heavy usage of that neighbourhood's shared resource?

The former could work, the price goes up for everybody, but nobody has to worry about usage.

The latter (current situation) could work too, but with *honest* advertising and clear pricing, policies and the ability to measure usage, it would at least be clear to people and fair.

I think the right thing to do is

1 - Stop saying unlimited when it doesn't mean so
2 - Definitely stop doubling down and enhancing the lies even further
3 - Be clear about what fair usage policy each plan has
4 - provide a data calculator that is relevant to a customers monthly limit with no guesswork and maths required for customer to work out their usage.
5 - give customers an option to pay for truly unlimited or a much bigger fair usage policy.

I reckon the FUP will hit more than 1% of customers and this will increase if not changed within the next 12 months.

Eir have been using the unlimited card for years and up till recently wasn't really an issue. When they updated their website to say 'absolutely no usage limits' is why they are now being hassled over the policy.

ED E

Its very easy to keep that 1% low when you've 100k customers on sub 8Mb links.

Buckmickley

Gonzo wrote: »

Eir have been using the unlimited card for years and up till recently wasn't really an issue. When they updated their website to say 'absolutely no usage limits' is why they are now being hassled over the policy.

You'd swear they were being hassled but they're not
Complaints from the small minority who end up engaging with the FUP that's there in the small print is no hassle at all
Btw if you've a ftth connection,there's no need to be speedtesting several times a day after the first few weeks
I'd only bother if there's a problem
Otherwise it's just an OCD

A terabyte and a half FUP would probably quieten most of the minority of heavy user complainers but isp's experience probably says different,the more heavy users get,the more they probably want and that's going to cost us all from what I read here just to humour the few?
No thanks