Asylum seeker to get college fees paid for by Department of Education.

Subcomandante Marcos

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The thing people are failing to grasp, completely, is that as well as being denied the ability to apply for financial assistance she is doubly denied the ability to work to earn the money herself or her parents to pay for her education themselves.

She's also allowed to participate in a second-level education system. If we're being consistent as a society, surely we should have made her wait five years before letting her do that?

I'm sure she wouldn't mind hanging around and doing the Leaving at the age of 23. :eek:

RichardCeann

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The thing people are failing to grasp, completely, is that as well as being denied the ability to apply for financial assistance she is doubly denied the ability to work to earn the money herself or her parents to pay for her education themselves.

So basically you have a load of mouth breathers giving out about "forediners take all our money" while giving zero alternatives to the current system.

Usual AH idiocy. It's like reading the comment section of the fecking Daily Mail.

I have a very easy solution for people whose asylum claims have been rejected at least twice.

It's called a swift and humane deportation.

She can then apply to come here via student visa like every other non EU citizen.

Subcomandante Marcos

RichardCeann wrote: »

These people 'fled' Ukraine before the conflict started. They have been in the process for over two years so their claims have been rejected at least twice.

I will call them what I see them.

You are privy to exactly zero details of their asylum claim but you're wise enough to divine in your infinite wisdom whether or not her claim is genuine or not?


Can you tell me the lotto numbers while you're at it?

Stheno

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The thing people are failing to grasp, completely, is that as well as being denied the ability to apply for financial assistance she is doubly denied the ability to work to earn the money herself or her parents to pay for her education themselves.

So basically you have a load of mouth breathers giving out about "forediners take all our money" while giving zero alternatives to the current system.

Usual AH idiocy. It's like reading the comment section of the fecking Daily Mail.

Well no.

This young lady and her family chose to seek asylum here. Until they go through the process and are granted asylum/have their claim rejected, they essentially exist in a legal limbo as non citizens/residents, so are not entitled to access all benefits that citizens/residents are.

While in that limbo they are housed and fed by the state, albeit via a system I don't agree with. They also get a weekly allowance which admittedly is paltry.

They chose to come here, and to seek asylum. Many students take a gap year. Taking a gap year in this instance will not harm this ladies education prospects, but will clarify her legal right to reside here, and if granted will provide her with access to state support for her education

0byme75341jo28

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The thing people are failing to grasp, completely, is that as well as being denied the ability to apply for financial assistance she is doubly denied the ability to work to earn the money herself or her parents to pay for her education themselves.

So basically you have a load of mouth breathers giving out about "forediners take all our money" while giving zero alternatives to the current system.

Usual AH idiocy. It's like reading the comment section of the fecking Daily Mail.

I can grasp this completely, this issue is with the fact, as I have said before, that she has not been granted asylum. One of the reason asylum seekers can't work is so they can't make any real financial gain from while their application is being processed, as that would greatly increase the amount of bogus claims.

RichardCeann

RichardCeann wrote: »

I have a very easy solution for people whose asylum claims have been rejected at least twice.

You seem to be an expert in the family's situation.

Are you a friend, by any chance?

Stheno

otpmb wrote: »

She's an asylum seeker so she can't work.

My point was that she can take a year out and see how her claim is processed, and will then be legally entitled to state support as she is here three years.

RichardCeann

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to be an expert in the family's situation.

Are you a friend, by any chance?

I have posted the processing times on the previous page.

Subcomandante Marcos

Deleted User wrote: »

You seem to be an expert in the family's situation.

Are you a friend, by any chance?

Lot of very unhappy people who did terribly in the LC and are angry with their ****ty lot in life in this thread.

Lads, don't be bitter, be better.

John_Rambo

Good ministerial choice. Exceptional person, willing to put the hours of study and work in. Without doubt a future high earner, future contributor to society and a future high tax payer.

No brainer.

Lots of red tape and bureaucracy fanboys on this thread not happy with the fact that she's a she and that she's a foreigner.

Two fingers to the red tape, bureaucracy fanboys that aren't impressed with the foreign girl distinctively showing them up.

Suck it up boys. She's a girl, she's talented, driven, clever, foreign and better than you.

_Kaiser_

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

The thing people are failing to grasp, completely, is that as well as being denied the ability to apply for financial assistance she and her parents are doubly denied the ability to work to earn the money for her or parents to pay for her education themselves.

So basically you have a load of mouth breathers giving out about "forediners take all our money" while giving zero alternatives to the current system.

Usual AH idiocy. It's like reading the comment section of the fecking Daily Mail.

Unless I'm mistaken, there's nobody holding these people here against their will. If they aren't satisfied with the system and laws then I'm sure they can return home or if that's not possible, try elsewhere?

We have an immigration system to ensure that those who are given entry and possibly citizenship have a valid and legitimate claim to these privileges (because that's what they are really). For those who pass the requirements, they are then free to avail of whatever supports that are available.

But making exceptions at the expense of existing citizens and legitimate residents to benefit people whose claim has not been validated - or indeed may have been rejected but which they're appealing - is wrong and is also setting a precedent for which this country is ill-prepared.

0byme75341jo28

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Lot of very unhappy people who did terribly in the LC and are angry with their ****ty lot in life in this thread.

Lads, don't be bitter, be better.

How anyone in this thread did in their leaving cert is irrelevant.

RichardCeann

RichardCeann wrote: »

I have posted the processing times on the previous page.

You haven't answered my question.

Do you know the facts of the family's position or do you not?

Your assumptions aren't of any interest, but an indication of your factual knowledge would be.

Stheno

John_Rambo wrote: »

Good ministerial choice. Exceptional person, willing to put the hours of study and work in. Without doubt a future high earner, future contributor to society and a future high tax payer.
.

Max salary as a HSE physio is about 55k

Not exactly a high earner.

Starts at 37k

Gallagher1

John_Rambo wrote: »

Good ministerial choice. Exceptional person, willing to put the hours of study and work in. Without doubt a future high earner, future contributor to society and a future high tax payer.

No brainer.

Lots of red tape and bureaucracy fanboys on this thread not happy with the fact that she's a she and that she's a foreigner.

Two fingers to the red tape, bureaucracy fanboys that aren't impressed with the foreign girl distinctively showing them up.

Suck it up boys.

1) There isn't a single sexist remark on the thread

2) Not a xenophobic remark either

3) The issue people have is the potential for her to access funding to which (at this moment in time) she isn't entitled to.

_Kaiser_

John_Rambo wrote: »

Good ministerial choice. Exceptional person, willing to put the hours of study and work in. Without doubt a future high earner, future contributor to society and a future high tax payer.

No brainer.

Lots of red tape and bureaucracy fanboys on this thread not happy with the fact that she's a she and that she's a foreigner.

Two fingers to the red tape, bureaucracy fanboys that aren't impressed with the foreign girl distinctively showing them up.

Suck it up boys.

The point has clearly escaped you so allow me to clarify.

It has zero to do with her being female (not sure where you got that from?) or that she's a foreigner - we have many thousands of legitimate "foreigners" here for years who are working and living quite happily without issues.

The issue is that there is a process for entry to this country which this young woman is availing of but has not yet passed, and we have a Government minister diluting this process by seeking to make exceptions in the name of a few votes for herself. There's also of course the old element of "all about who you know" which everyone - rightly - complains about.

Ms O'Sullivan would be better off considering the long term ramifications of her decisions for ALL residents of this State rather than her own short-term gain.. but I accept that this is probably too much to ask for a TD who wants to keep her seat in the GE.

Junkyard Tom

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Has Jan O' Sullivan actually in her capacity as the Minister for Education made any declaration that this girl's education will actually be funded by the State?

I don't think she has.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

"Every assistance" and "finding a way" is a far cry from declaring that the State will actually fund this girl's education.

Indeed. There is no evidence that the title of the thread is even correct in its assumption.

Me fail English? That's unpossible!

TiGeR KiNgS

Stheno wrote: »

Yes if she ends up as a consultant.

However she wants to study physiotherapy which while requiring high points has a very poor payscale.

http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Physiotherapist/Salary


From the HSE, it started at 37k in 2010, http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/Payscalesjan2010.pdf

So at 37k and paying 8040 per year in PAYE,the 100k in fees along would take at least 12 and a half years of her working here to recoup that money from her taxes, while she still consumes public services. If she is going to get more support than just fees, considering that asylum seekers get a very basic allowance each week and work in direct provision that could double.

Very good point and one I subscribe too. 575 points is indeed an excellent score (I'll refrain from the very good description) but it simply does not make financial sense to send this person to college financed by tax payers.

Someone with 570 points has now just lost out on this place, probably Irish and more likely to stay here for the rest of their life. Unlike the relative high chance this person returns back to Ukraine.

I'm quite appalled by this decision, however it is not endemic in the system, I still feel sorry for the person that lost out even with an almost equally excellent points score.

John_Rambo

Gallagher1 wrote: »

1) There isn't a single sexist remark on the thread

2) Not a xenophobic remark either

3) The issue people have is the potential for her to access funding to which (at this moment in time) she isn't entitled to.

Nonsense. Clear issues with the fact that's it's a girl and she's foreign.

Guy:Incognito

John_Rambo wrote: »

Suck it up boys. She's a girl, she's talented, driven, clever, foreign and better than you.

How do you know that? For all you know shes a card carrying Klan member and a right kunt in general.

Mr. Incognito

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Very good point and one I subscribe too. 575 points is indeed an excellent score (I'll refrain from the very good description) but it simply does not make financial sense to send this person to college financed by tax payers.

Someone with 570 points has now just lost out on this place, probably Irish and more likely to stay here for the rest of their life. Unlike the relative high chance this person returns back to Ukraine.

I'm quite appalled by this decision.

I don't really think you grasp how asylum seeking works or indeed what it is.

There is a LOT of stupidity in this thread.

1. Argument 1. An Irish person is missing out. So?

2. It doesnt make financial sense? To educate someone to a high standard so they can contribute to society? It doesnt make financial sense to subsidise them in accomodation for years. She will be out earning, legitimately in three years.

3. She's a girl. - You have mommy issues. See a therapist.

4. Insert stupid comment here.

A person with potential came here, self taught herself English in two years and outscored almost every single Irish kid in the country.

She should be applauded and lauded as an example to our own kids.

Irish people are inherently insular and racist. The citizen referendum showed that. Dont lump stupidity into the mix.

John_Rambo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How do you know that? For all you know shes a card carrying Klan member and a right kunt in general.

I doubt that. But keep trying.

TiGeR KiNgS

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I don't really think you grasp how asylum seeking works or indeed what it is.

There is a LOT of stupidity in this thread.

1. Argument 1. An Irish person is missing out. So?

2. It doesnt make financial sense? To educate someone to a high standard so they can contribute to society? It doesnt make financial sense to subsidise them in accomodation for years. She will be out earning, legitimately in three years.

3. She's a girl. - You have mommy issues. See a therapist.

4. Insert stupid comment here.

A person with potential came here, self taught herself English in two years and outscored almost every single Irish kid in the country.

She should be applauded and lauded as an example to our own kids.

Irish people are inherently insular and racist. The citizen referendum showed that. Dont lump stupidity into the mix.

ridiculous analysis of my post.

The 5 minute response time says it all really. sad, very sad.

Guy:Incognito

John_Rambo wrote: »

I doubt that. But keep trying.

Keep trying what? You're the one going on about how great she is. Plenty of clever (she may not even be clever , she may just have a very good memory) people are pricks. Without knowing her, its as likely shes an irritating asshat as mother teresa like you're making out

Guy:Incognito

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I don't really think you grasp how asylum seeking works or indeed what it is.
.

Why is she more likely to stick around after graduating as an asylum seeker than native Irish people who are leaving for better prospects?

Mr. Incognito

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

ridiculous analysis of my post.
The 5 minute response time says it all really. sad, very sad.

I wasnt trying to analyse your post.

It's as much use as peering into a soap dish. If I was trying to analyse your post I would go no further than

TiGeR KiNgS
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Are you paying Irish tax at present??

I merely highlighted one line, which said she is likely to return to the Ukraine which if you understood the very basic tenants of asylum seeking, that is an application to escape persecution in their home country you wouldnt have made such a nonsensical statement.

I read Affidavits in work in five minutes. A few poorly thought out lines hardly attracts detailed analysis. You are giving your posts a higher standing that they deserve. Most post here are vacous dribble consisting of

bloody foreigners,
guuuurl,
taking our jobs,

I nearly feel like someone should throw in water charges also.

Anyone with any common sense, human decency, economic nous and experience of the legal framework in this country knows that this is was a sensible example to make.

Anyone who cannot see that, well I havent got the inclination, patience, time or ability to spell it out in crayons.

It is sad. Sad when I feel that this girl is better, much much better than large patches of my own country men and women and they cannot applaud her for that through their own insular, racist stupidity.

Stheno

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It is sad. Sad when I feel that this girl is better, much much better than large patches of my own country men and women and they cannot applaud her for that through their own insular, racist stupidity.

I applaud her achivement, it is to be commended.

What I don't applaud is her trying to get access to services which are very expensive that she is not entitled to while she is in legal limbo waiting for her asylum claim to be processed.
She needs to wait to have her claim processed/appealed, then if it is granted, she can move on and avail of the education system.

At the moment she has no such right.

If she was Sheila from Moyross who couldn't afford the registration fees/student contribution, or Paddy the traveler who bucked the system, would you make the same exception? And if you would, then where do you stop?

Mr. Incognito

Stheno wrote: »

I applaud her achivement, it is to be commended.

What I don't applaud is her trying to get access to services which are very expensive that she is not entitled to while she is in legal limbo waiting for her asylum claim to be processed.
She needs to wait to have her claim processed/appealed, then if it is granted, she can move on and avail of the education system.

At the moment she has no such right.

If she was Sheila from Moyross who couldn't afford the registration fees/student contribution, or Paddy the traveler who bucked the system, would you make the same exception? And if you would, then where do you stop?

It's like banging my head off a wall.

A person, with exceptional ability has been identified. Ireland has a few of these people but they are rare. They are the top 5% in the Country.

On top of that this person in the top 5% has come to a foreign country, lived in horrific conditions, taught herself a new language and then set one of the hardest and most challenging set of exams in the State in a little under 20 months.

That's not just someone who is smart, or able. That is a person who is exceptional. Beyond exceptional. That is the stuff leaders are made of, doers, people with ability.

People we should cherish, nuture, look up to. Respect.

Instead we get the knuckle dusters and dopes in here saying, ah she hasnt had her forms filled out by the muppets, The red tape morons that we keep electing. The civil service bureaucrats that delay, obstificate, pontificate, deflect,

The very people they love to line up against reading the Star, and whinging to Joe, and the bleeding water charges Joe and the telerbisiion licence Joe.............

Never seeing the irony of their bigot, racist, idiot opinions.

I am going to bed. Cant deal with this stupidity

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

I applaud her achivement, it is to be commended.

No you don't.

Stheno wrote: »

What I don't applaud is her trying to get access to services which are very expensive that she is not entitled to while she is in legal limbo waiting for her asylum claim to be processed.

She availed of a very expensive service - two years of free secondary education - in order to get her 575 points.

You don't applaud that, therefore by definition you can't applaud her achievement.

Stheno

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

It's like banging my head off a wall.

A person, with exceptional ability has been identified. Ireland has a few of these people but they are rare. They are the top 5% in the Country.

On top of that this person in the top 5% has come to a foreign country, lived in horrific conditions, taught herself a new language and then set one of the hardest and most challenging set of exams in the State in a little under 20 months.

No, the top five percent are not rare, in this country that's close to a quarter of a million people who are legally entitled to live here, avail of benefits etc.

This woman/girl is not entitled to anything here, apart from basic human rights.

No one can say she lives in horrific conditions as we don't know, and the photos staged by the press today certainly don't reflect that.

She was here for 2 years, not 20 months so stop using hyperbole

She is currently not legally entitled to access third level education for free, as she is not qualified under the criteria

That is the issue here.

Yet the Minister for Education appears to be saying she should accept the offer, and we then have a quagmire legally if her claim is denied.

This is why we have governance, to seperate those who make the law, those who enforce it, and those who implement penalties for non compliance.

Seems that's out of the window here.

I can't see her quest making progress.,