Asylum seeker to get college fees paid for by Department of Education.

0byme75341jo28

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ukrainian-student-gets-go-ahead-to-take-college-place-1.2317087

Seems very unfair to me on a lot of other students, it's not even like she did exceptionally well. I'd be feeling very aggrieved if I was an Irish student in a difficult financial situation, like so many are.

Ridiculous.

EDIT: Meant asylum seeker, not refugee. Mod change it please if you've time.

Amirani

She won't get better treatment than Irish students in similar circumstances.

575 is exceptional by definition.

Robsweezie

Leeeets get ready to racist!

Hococop

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ukrainian-student-gets-go-ahead-to-take-college-place-1.2317087

Seems very unfair to me on a lot of other students, it's not even like she did exceptionally well. I'd be feeling very aggrieved if I was an Irish student in a difficult financial situation, like so many are.

Ridiculous.

EDIT: Meant asylum seeker, not refugee. Mod change it please if you've time.

I think 575 points is very good, what do you mean it's not that good

timaru89

is 575 not an exceptional score?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

She got 575 points, she worked hard and achieved more than most Irish students could be bothered to. The girl has serious potential and if helping her become a doctor (isn't medicine what she's doing) costs the state x amount of euro, I'd rather they give it to her for her education than give it to her to sit on the dole. Fair play to her, wish her the best of luck with her future and if Irish students from under privilivged backgrounds showed the same determination, I'd be all for helping them too

kneemos

Be a shame to waste her potential.

wingnut

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ukrainian-student-gets-go-ahead-to-take-college-place-1.2317087

Seems very unfair to me on a lot of other students, it's not even like she did exceptionally well. I'd be feeling very aggrieved if I was an Irish student in a difficult financial situation, like so many.

You'd be feeling agrevied because asylum seekers will have to pay the SAME fees as Irish/EU students?

0byme75341jo28

Hococop wrote: »

I think 575 points is very good, what do you mean is not that good

Very good, not exceptional.

The Backwards Man

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

Very good, not exceptional.

How many points did you get?

Junkyard Tom

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

it's not even like she did exceptionally well.

How's your Ukrainian?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Also, any Irish student that's "struggling financially" have their college paid for, they're only asked to pay registration fees

Amirani

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

Very good, not exceptional.

Top 2% of Leaving Cert scores isn't exceptional?

otpmb

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

if I was an Irish student in a difficult financial situation, like so many are.

She's originally from the Ukraine, which is now outside the eu, so she would be treated as an international student, not an Irish student, her college fees would be over 30,000 euro per year. She'd have to pay for accommodation in Dublin too.

jamo2oo9

Well it is unfair that she is getting her education paid for by the state but achieving that sort of result is exceptionally brilliant. I feel she deserves it more than a tosser who got 150 points and wants to do a course in panel beating before dropping out and heading onto the dole after a few weeks of sitting in college...


She deserves it.

Asylum seekers aren't allowed to work in this country according to a radio show I was listening to last night but are allowed to study/get an education. So how is she supposed to pay, let's face it, extortionate fees if she can't work? I heard figures of 18,000 etc. I don't know if that's accurate, someone might be able to chime in. She's not looking for a handout btw, just wants to pay what everyone else in Ireland or with EU citizenship pays. This person is actively trying to contribute to society, be a shame if a loophole couldn't be found somewhere.

conorh91

Congratulations to her fantastic result. It was an outstanding feat for anyone, let alone someone in such a precarious position.

Genuinely remarkable. I am sure she will be a valued medical professional.

Ave Sodalis

Kid does well in Leaving Cert and get college paid for by state as she can't afford it, just like every other kid in Ireland. 575 points may even qualify her for a scholarship too, shock horror.

Stheno

LexieOnRale wrote: »

She got 575 points, she worked hard and achieved more than most Irish students could be bothered to. The girl has serious potential and if helping her become a doctor (isn't medicine what she's doing) costs the state x amount of euro, I'd rather they give it to her for her education than give it to her to sit on the dole. Fair play to her, wish her the best of luck with her future and if Irish students from under privilivged backgrounds showed the same determination, I'd be all for helping them too

She wants to do physiotherapy

I have to admit I'm a bit conflicted by this. The girl is an asylum seeker, she has no legal status to remain here at the moment, and now we have the minister for education telling her she is going to be funded for four years of education while it has not yet been established she has a right to stay here.

She's from Ukraine, which to me is not necessarily an area from which one seeks asylum (that may well be my ignorance) and she and her family (mother and sister from what I can gather) are here just over two years, so they should be coming to the end of having their claim processed.

What will happen if e.g. in December they are denied asylum? Will this young lady then have a counter claim that she has been granted de facto asylum or more as she is being given treatment equal to or greater than an Irish citizen?

If the OP doesn't think 575 is exceptional, then what in the f*ck do they think is? I mean, Christ, I only got around 300 - 400 now .. can't remember whatsoever!

0byme75341jo28

My issue is with the fact she is an asylum seeker. If her application is rejected then what happens? For all we know her claim could be bogus.

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

She wants to do physiotherapy

I have to admit I'm a bit conflicted by this. The girl is an asylum seeker, she has no legal status to remain here at the moment, and now we have the minister for education telling her she is going to be funded for four years of education while it has not yet been established she has a right to stay here.

She's from Ukraine, which to me is not necessarily an area from which one seeks asylum (that may well be my ignorance) and she and her family (mother and sister from what I can gather) are here just over two years, so they should be coming to the end of having their claim processed.

What will happen if e.g. in December they are denied asylum? Will this young lady then have a counter claim that she has been granted de facto asylum or more as she is being given treatment equal to or greater than an Irish citizen?

Wasn't this the most dominating news story of 2014?!

_Kaiser_

Only a few posts in and we've already had a cry of racism and other such SJW liberal stances.

As I said over in this thread, it is completely wrong that the Minister for Education intervene in this case and indeed assure the girl that she'll be looked after when her legal status in this country has yet to be determined. We have an immigration system and rules around entry that should be respected and while I sympathise with this girl's situation, there are many thousands of other native and legally resident families who will struggle to send their children to college this year, and some of whom wil not get the chance because of the cost. Who speaks for them? Why is the Minister not promising them a "dig-out" as well?

The idea that these same families should then pay for the education and support of people whose legal status in this country has yet to be reviewed let alone legitimised at the expense of our own citizens and legal residents is wrong, regardless of the current view among some that we should be out rescuing the world while at the same time we see increasing homelessness, child poverty and a housing/rental crisis that's been largely ignored and passed back and forth by the Government and its Departments.

Dey tuk arrr college plaaaaccesss, huh, OP?

the groutch

would this happen if there wasn't an election looming?

0byme75341jo28

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Only a few posts in and we've already had a cry of racism and other such SJW liberal stances.

As I said over in this thread, it is completely wrong that the Minister for Education intervene in this case and indeed assure the girl that she'll be looked after when her legal status in this country has yet to be determined. We have an immigration system and rules around entry that should be respected and while I sympathise with this girl's situation, there are many thousands of other native and legally resident families who will struggle to send their children to college this year, and some of whom wil not get the chance because of the cost. Who speaks for them? Why is the Minister not promising them a "dig-out" as well?

The idea that these same families should then pay for the education and support of people whose legal status in this country has yet to be reviewed let alone legitimised at the expense of our own citizens and legal residents is wrong, regardless of the current view among some that we should be out rescuing the world while at the same time we see increasing homelessness, child poverty and a housing/rental crisis that's been largely ignored and passed back and forth by the Government and its Departments.

This this this.

Kiwi in IE

Asylum seekers are hardly the same as overseas students who choose to study here because they want a pleasant overseas college experience are they? People who come here as overseas students would generally have equivelant educucational oppurtunities if they stayed in their country of origin, they generally don't need to attend college here because they are unsafe at home, but rather choose to, as an optional life experience which has nothing to do with maintaining personal safety!

But then everyone knows that don't they....

Guy:Incognito

the groutch wrote: »

would this happen if there wasn't an election looming?

Cant imagine this is a big vote getting win tbh. Couple of sympathisers at the very most.

The asylum seeker vote isnt a big one. Currently running at 0% afaik.

kneemos

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Only a few posts in and we've already had a cry of racism and other such SJW liberal stances.

As I said over in this thread, it is completely wrong that the Minister for Education intervene in this case and indeed assure the girl that she'll be looked after when her legal status in this country has yet to be determined. We have an immigration system and rules around entry that should be respected and while I sympathise with this girl's situation, there are many thousands of other native and legally resident families who will struggle to send their children to college this year, and some of whom wil not get the chance because of the cost. Who speaks for them? Why is the Minister not promising them a "dig-out" as well?

The idea that these same families should then pay for the education and support of people whose legal status in this country has yet to be reviewed let alone legitimised at the expense of our own citizens and legal residents is wrong, regardless of the current view among some that we should be out rescuing the world while at the same time we see increasing homelessness, child poverty and a housing/rental crisis that's been largely ignored and passed back and forth by the Government and its Departments.

Have you ever seen Saving Private Ryan?

Tefral

How much money are they going to recuperate from her in tax over the years?! If she's in medicine my guess is a lot.

RichardCeann

Refugee status is not defined by Leaving Cert results, nor is refugee status an academic accolade. If she qualifies for refugee status or subsidiary protection, then of course she should be treated the exact same as an Irish citizen. If she does not qualify, then she should be treated the exact same as other non EU citizens wishing to study in the state or EU and Irish citizens non resident for three years beforehand, pay the fees or look for a scholarship and go through the student visa process.

Also, it must be noted that Ukraine was not at war in 2013 when this family claimed asylum and that large swathes of the country are currently unaffected by the conflict.

Guy:Incognito

cronin_j wrote: »

How much money are they going to recuperate from her in tax over the years?! If she's in medicine my guess is a lot.

Unless she leaves for an easier job elsewhere as soon as shes qualified.........

Paramite Pie

wingnut wrote: »

You'd be feeling agrevied because asylum seekers will have to pay the SAME fees as Irish/EU students?

Omackeral wrote: »

She's not looking for a handout btw, just wants to pay what everyone else in Ireland or with EU citizenship pays. This person is actively trying to contribute to society, be a shame if a loophole couldn't be found somewhere.

While I wish this girl the best in her education, Irish people have to be resident in Ireland/EU for three years in order get their fees covered whereas this girl has only been here for two years. Not even an Irish born person would get their fees paid in her circumstances.

If she were given full citizenship tomorrow, she still wouldn't be eligible for another year.

0byme75341jo28

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dey tuk arrr college plaaaaccesss, huh, OP?

Oh shut up with this nonsense. I've no issue with foreigners or refugees even, but I do have issues with people who have yet to gain refugee status getting financial support for their studies when their application could be complete bogus.

Alfredo Acidic Actress

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

Oh shut up with this nonsense. I've no issue with foreigners or refugees even, but I do have issues with people who have yet to gain refugee status getting financial support for their studies when their application could be complete bogus.

I really need to learn when to use sarcasm tags.

Dey tuk aarrr college pllaaaccceeess /s

Happy?

Stheno

Omackeral wrote: »

Wasn't this the most dominating news story of 2014?!

No, ISIS would have been, the Ukraine and Russia conflict occupied less than a month of newstime.

RichardCeann

Omackeral wrote: »

Asylum seekers aren't allowed to work in this country according to a radio show I was listening to last night but are allowed to study/get an education. So how is she supposed to pay, let's face it, extortionate fees if she can't work? I heard figures of 18,000 etc. I don't know if that's accurate, someone might be able to chime in. She's not looking for a handout btw, just wants to pay what everyone else in Ireland or with EU citizenship pays. This person is actively trying to contribute to society, be a shame if a loophole couldn't be found somewhere.

Irish and EU citizens not resident for three years beforehand do not get 'home' fees but pay the non EU rate. She is neither EU/Irish or resident here for three years. Also, if allowed study here then she would be on a student visa which allows non EU citizens work 20 hours per week during term and 40 per week off term.

goose2005

It's difficult to imagine anyone making a plausible case for it being unsafe for her to return to Ukraine. Parts of Ukraine are unsafe, but I don't see why Lviv is more dangerous than Dublin.

frostyjacks

If we pony up for this girl, next year we'll have a hundred immigrants asking for the same thing, and a thousand the year after. No dice I'm afraid.

_Kaiser_

cronin_j wrote: »

How much money are they going to recuperate from her in tax over the years?! If she's in medicine my guess is a lot.

IF she qualifies. IF she finds a job here and doesn't emigrate like many graduates in that sector have done in recent times

But it's also irrelevant as right now her legal status in this country hasn't been determined, and the Minister here is using it as an electioneering opportunity anyway purely because it made an RTE News report.

Charity - which is what this is - begins at home and as I said above, we have more than enough deserving people who DO have a legal right and entitlement to these services who should be getting any extra assistance first.

Billy86

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

My issue is with the fact she is an asylum seeker. If her application is rejected then what happens? For all we know her claim could be bogus.

No, your issue was that her score was "not exceptional" - which it very clearly was.

Your other issue was that it was "unfair on Irish students" - which this very clearly isn't. Any Irish student without the financial means to go to college who does well in their leaving cert gets the same.

You also initially labelled her a refugee for some reason (though did quickly correct it), despite the very article you linked to never once using the word.

Now your issue is with the legitimacy of her claim, of which none of know anything except that the Ukraine is still very unstable right now.

goose2005

goose2005 wrote: »

It's difficult to imagine anyone making a plausible case for it being unsafe for her to return to Ukraine. Parts of Ukraine are unsafe, but I don't see why Lviv is more dangerous than Dublin.

But we don't really know their reasons for leaving Ukraine, do we? I mean, there could be something besides the war that would make it dangerous for them to ever return.

One eyed Jack

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

Oh shut up with this nonsense. I've no issue with foreigners or refugees even, but I do have issues with people who have yet to gain refugee status getting financial support for their studies when their application could be complete bogus.

Has Jan O' Sullivan actually in her capacity as the Minister for Education made any declaration that this girl's education will actually be funded by the State?

I don't think she has.

EB_2013

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Unless she leaves for an easier job elsewhere as soon as shes qualified.........

That's if she qualifies. Might end up dropping out after a year or two.

_Kaiser_

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Has Jan O' Sullivan actually in her capacity as the Minister for Education made any declaration that this girl's education will actually be funded by the State?

I don't think she has.

From the article....

But on Thursday Minister for Education Jan O’Sullivan said she would give “every assistance” to Ms Kern.

“She is a very impressive young woman. She didn’t obviously know what points she was going to get but she expected that she might get into college...It’s an individual case but I will give Anna every assistance I can,” said Ms O’Sullivan.

On Friday Ms Kern told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland: “Jan O’Sullivan said I should accept my offer on Monday. She contacted the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin and she will, they will together find a way.”

So yes, apparently she has.

conorh91

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

People who come here as overseas students would generally have equivelant educucational oppurtunities if they stayed in their country of origin

What is the factual basis for that claim?

This girl spent approximately three years in education in Ireland, and did far better then people educated here since baby infants. She now seeks training in a particularly valuable, publicly appreciated course of study.

We should be bending over backwards to facilitate this type of ambition. You cannot seriously believe that she deserves to lose her place to some guy who's had a world-class education handed to him for 13+ years, unquestioningly, on a plate?

otpmb

EB_2013 wrote: »

That's if she qualifies. Might end up dropping out after a year or two.

Dropout rate is very low in Med-

http://www.thejournal.ie/college-drop-out-rates-revealed-40207-Oct2010/

0byme75341jo28

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Charity - which is what this is - begins at home and as I said above, we have more than enough deserving people who DO have a legal right and entitlement to these services who should be getting any extra assistance first.

Exactly.

If she was the one who got 9 A1s then I'd say fair play, maybe give her some assistance. 575 isn't good enough to make a special case for her.

Gallagher1

otpmb wrote: »

Dropout rate is very low in Med-

http://www.thejournal.ie/college-drop-out-rates-revealed-40207-Oct2010/

She's not doing Med. She's doing physiotherapy. She wasn't allowed sit the HPAT due to being an asylum seeker(Which is an odd reason for not letting someone sit an exam).

_Kaiser_

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

Exactly.

If she was the one who got 9 A1s then I'd say fair play, maybe give her some assistance. 575 isn't good enough to make a special case for her.

I'd respectfully disagree The number of points is not a factor. She did well, and fair play to her for that - but that doesn't change the reality of her situation, or indeed the thousands of others in the DP process.

Should we make exceptions for them too?

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

From the article....



So yes, apparently she has.

I don't know ...

The quote directly attributed to the Minister is that she will do everything that she can - this isn't necessarily guaranteeing that anything will happen, but if it can happen, then she'll do it.

The other quote comes from the girl, so we don't know exactly what the Minister said, but it just sounds like she made contact to see what can be done.

OP, what did you get in your leaving that you think 575 isn't an exceptional score?