Asylum seeker to get college fees paid for by Department of Education.

Maguined

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Which would make a lot of sense.
I'd hate to see a valuable education being thrown away because someone couldn't finish a course.
That said I can't see a judge signing off on a deportation order for her while she's still in college.

I might be harder than you think to grant her a student visa if she is denied asylum.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/travel_to_ireland/student_visas.html

You will need to provide the following with your visa application. (Please remember, original documents are required and must be in English or accompanied by a notarised translation):

Letter of acceptance from a recognised school/college/university in Ireland confirming that you have been accepted on a course of study. This course of study must be full-time (lasting an academic year) and have a minimum of 15 hours per week study time.
Evidence of your academic ability to pursue the chosen course through the English language (unless it is an English language course).
Evidence that the fees for the course have been paid in full.
Evidence that you have enough funds (€7,000) to maintain yourself for the initial part of your stay.
Evidence that you or a sponsor have access to at least €7,000 for each subsequent year of your studies, in addition to the course fees for each of those years.
Evidence that you have private medical insurance
An explanation of any gaps in your educational history
Confirmation that you intend to return to your country of permanent residence when you leave Ireland.

Remember, the granting of a student visa to study in Ireland does not confer the automatic right of anyone to join or visit you in Ireland (whether they are a relative or not).

Letter of acceptance, English, gaps in education history and fees are all completely covered and are fine. Having her own private medical insurance and 7k in a bank account per year are extremely unlikely unless the RCSI pays for these as well which is completely possible however the final provision is the kicker. If she is not granted asylum but is able to get a student visa she then has to leave Ireland as soon as her studies are completed.

So after all the extra expense the RCSI are willing to do to educate her she would then automatically have to leave Ireland and so we would not benefit from her education. I think it would be of more benefit to Irish society if they awarded this extra slot to a student that is more likely to remain within Irish society and so society benefits from their education and expertise.

RichardCeann

Maguined wrote: »

Having her own private medical insurance and 7k in a bank account per year are extremely unlikely unless the RCSI pays for these as well which is completely possible however the final provision is the kicker.

This is a guideline that is very rarely rigorously enforced. Very few of the South Americans and other non Europeans who come here to "study English" on a student visa would have 7k in the bank upon arrival.

In Germany, for example, to get a student visa the non EU applicant must have just under 9k in a German bank account for every year of their studies to obtain a student visa. This is rigorously enforced.

Maguined wrote:

If she is not granted asylum but is able to get a student visa she then has to leave Ireland as soon as her studies are completed.

Physiotherapy graduates have a 70% unemployment rate and it is not listed on our skilled shortage list. She will find it extremely difficult to find an employer willing to try and sponsor her and if she does, they will have an even more difficult time trying to get the DJEI to give the go ahead for the work permit.

What happens then if she is not granted asylum. Do we waive our immigration policies another time for her? There is absolutely no joined up or forward thinking in all of this.

Maguined

RichardCeann wrote: »

This is a guideline that is very rarely rigorously enforced. Very few of the South Americans and other non Europeans who come here to "study English" on a student visa would have 7k in the bank upon arrival.

In Germany, for example to get a student visa the non EU applicant must have just under 9k in a German bank account for every year of their studies to obtain a student visa. This is rigorously enforced.

I can understand it not being enforced when you are able to afford to pay the fees as a non-EEA student anyway. If you can afford to be paying a couple of grand a year in fees then they are probably happy you can afford to pay for your food and rent however when your accomodation and fees had to be waived in order for the student to be in the course they might be more wary. Ultimately though I would imagine the RCSI would actually cover this, I doubt they would go to the bother of waiving the fees and paying accomodation and then quibble about food and bills money.

RichardCeann wrote: »

Physiotherapy graduates have a 70% unemployment rate and it is not listed on our skilled shortage list. She will find it extremely difficult to find an employer willing to try and sponsor her and if she does, they will have an even more difficult time trying to get the DJEI to give the go ahead for the work permit.

What happens then if she is not granted asylum. Do we waive our immigration policies another time for her? There is absolutely no joined up or forward thinking in all of this.

Yeah I had a friend that did physiotherapy, she was seriously looking into emigrating to England for work as there was so few jobs here but she got pretty lucky at the last minute and managed to get something here. It would be pretty funny for a college in Ireland which had to be bailed out educated for free a student that then moved to England for work. Nice exchange rate on those sterling wages though.

Maguined

P. Breathnach wrote: »

We don't know the probabilities in any particular case. I think we can all agree that there is a possibility that her application will fail.

Should RCSI base their decisions on that? Should they shrug their shoulders and say "Well, she's probably going to be deported in the next year or two, so we are not interested in her welfare"? That would be taking a prejudicial stance. Right now, the family are here legally, albeit conditionally and with uncertain prospects of being allowed to remain.

I am coming back to this as I only focused on your first point and not the second point that making such a decision would be prejudiced. Since it's the RCSI I will keep with the medical theme. Organ donations are pretty rare, lets say you are a doctor that graduated through the RCSI. You have two patients that require heart transplants but only one heart is available. The first patient is elderly, not in the best shape and has a much lower chance of surviving the procedure. The second patient is young, fit and healthy apart from the heart condition and is far more likely to survive the procedure.

Who do you give the heart to? Doctors have to make these decisions everyday and the success and survival rate plays a massive part of the decision so do you think these decisions are prejudiced?

conorh91

Maguined wrote: »

I am coming back to this as I only focused on your first point and not the second point that making such a decision would be prejudiced. Since it's the RCSI I will keep with the medical theme. Organ donations are pretty rare, lets say you are a doctor that graduated through the RCSI. You have two patients that require heart transplants but only one heart is available. The first patient is elderly, not in the best shape and has a much lower chance of surviving the procedure. The second patient is young, fit and healthy apart from the heart condition and is far more likely to survive the procedure.

Who do you give the heart to? Doctors have to make these decisions everyday and the success and survival rate plays a massive part of the decision so do you think these decisions are prejudiced?

It is difficult to imagine a worse analogy.

1. What is at issue in this thread is an RCSI scholarship, not a decision granting life to one person, and death to another.
2. Life-saving clinical determinations are often made in emergencies; asylum/ protection determinations are made slowly and carefully; and a private decision whether or not to open a scholarship can be as arbitrary as the benefactor likes.

The decision of the RCSI to waive fees or not, is about as legally constrained as the whims and biases of Santa's 'naughty or nice' list.

It's their money, let them do what they want.

Maguined

conorh91 wrote: »

It is difficult to imagine a worse analogy.

1. What is at issue in this thread is an RCSI scholarship, not a decision granting life to one person, and death to another.
2. Life-saving clinical determinations are often made in emergencies; asylum/ protection determinations are made slowly and carefully; and a private decision whether or not to open a scholarship can be as arbitrary as the benefactor likes.

The decision of the RCSI to waive fees or not, is about as legally constrained as the whims and biases of Santa's 'naughty or nice' list.

It's their money, let them do what they want.

Why is the analogy bad? Can you actually discuss by explaining your reasoning rather than a simple statement?

I never claimed it was not legal. They have the full right to do what they want just as this is a discussion forum to actually discuss things like whether people believe it is a good decision or not. This is not the legal forum, this discussion is not framed about their legal right to the decision or not.

diograis

63 pages later, and someone for whom it is yet to be decided if it they are to be allowed to even remain in the country/EU is soon to start a course with 0 fee, and to get a payment for accommodation and board. Which I highly doubt many Irish/EU students will receive. Nothing will change, and if she is denied asylum (as is very possible) it leaves RCSI with their hands tied, and possibly hugely embarrassed.

These stories get more and more ridiculous.

P. Breathnach

diograis wrote: »

63 pages later, and someone for whom it is yet to be decided if it they are to be allowed to even remain in the country/EU is soon to start a course with 0 fee, and to get a payment for accommodation and board. Which I highly doubt many Irish/EU students will receive. Nothing will change, and if she is denied asylum (as is very possible) it leaves RCSI with their hands tied, and possibly hugely embarrassed.

These stories get more and more ridiculous.

Fanning the embers, I see.

RichardCeann

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Fanning the embers, I see.

Did you take Maguined's wager in the end? He afforded you superb odds.

P. Breathnach

RichardCeann wrote: »

Did you take Maguined's wager in the end? He afforded you superb odds.

Of course not.

snubbleste

Ms Kern received an offer outside of the CAO system so as not to impact on any CAO candidates and does not have to pay tuition fees.
Anna was one of 125 students in receipt of a 2015 All-Ireland Scholarship at a ceremony held in the University of Limerick at the weekend.
Sponsored by JP McManus the scholarships are worth €6,750 per year and continue for the duration of the undergraduate programme chosen by the scholarship winners.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/limerick-asylum-seeker-anna-kern-awarded-scholarship-to-study-at-the-royal-college-of-surgeons-366445.html

Steve The Barman

how'd she get on?