Asylum seeker to get college fees paid for by Department of Education.

Guy:Incognito · 15-08-2015 12:20am

cronin_j wrote: »

How much money are they going to recuperate from her in tax over the years?! If she's in medicine my guess is a lot.

Unless she leaves for an easier job elsewhere as soon as shes qualified.........

Paramite Pie · 15-08-2015 12:20am

wingnut wrote: »

You'd be feeling agrevied because asylum seekers will have to pay the SAME fees as Irish/EU students?

Omackeral wrote: »

She's not looking for a handout btw, just wants to pay what everyone else in Ireland or with EU citizenship pays. This person is actively trying to contribute to society, be a shame if a loophole couldn't be found somewhere.

While I wish this girl the best in her education, Irish people have to be resident in Ireland/EU for three years in order get their fees covered whereas this girl has only been here for two years. Not even an Irish born person would get their fees paid in her circumstances.

If she were given full citizenship tomorrow, she still wouldn't be eligible for another year.

0byme75341jo28 · 15-08-2015 12:21am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dey tuk arrr college plaaaaccesss, huh, OP?

Oh shut up with this nonsense. I've no issue with foreigners or refugees even, but I do have issues with people who have yet to gain refugee status getting financial support for their studies when their application could be complete bogus.

15-08-2015 12:22am

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

Oh shut up with this nonsense. I've no issue with foreigners or refugees even, but I do have issues with people who have yet to gain refugee status getting financial support for their studies when their application could be complete bogus.

I really need to learn when to use sarcasm tags.

Dey tuk aarrr college pllaaaccceeess /s

Happy?

Stheno · 15-08-2015 12:22am

Omackeral wrote: »

Wasn't this the most dominating news story of 2014?!

No, ISIS would have been, the Ukraine and Russia conflict occupied less than a month of newstime.

RichardCeann · 15-08-2015 12:23am

Omackeral wrote: »

Asylum seekers aren't allowed to work in this country according to a radio show I was listening to last night but are allowed to study/get an education. So how is she supposed to pay, let's face it, extortionate fees if she can't work? I heard figures of 18,000 etc. I don't know if that's accurate, someone might be able to chime in. She's not looking for a handout btw, just wants to pay what everyone else in Ireland or with EU citizenship pays. This person is actively trying to contribute to society, be a shame if a loophole couldn't be found somewhere.

Irish and EU citizens not resident for three years beforehand do not get 'home' fees but pay the non EU rate. She is neither EU/Irish or resident here for three years. Also, if allowed study here then she would be on a student visa which allows non EU citizens work 20 hours per week during term and 40 per week off term.

goose2005 · 15-08-2015 12:23am

It's difficult to imagine anyone making a plausible case for it being unsafe for her to return to Ukraine. Parts of Ukraine are unsafe, but I don't see why Lviv is more dangerous than Dublin.

frostyjacks · 15-08-2015 12:23am

If we pony up for this girl, next year we'll have a hundred immigrants asking for the same thing, and a thousand the year after. No dice I'm afraid.

_Kaiser_ · 15-08-2015 12:23am

cronin_j wrote: »

How much money are they going to recuperate from her in tax over the years?! If she's in medicine my guess is a lot.

IF she qualifies. IF she finds a job here and doesn't emigrate like many graduates in that sector have done in recent times

But it's also irrelevant as right now her legal status in this country hasn't been determined, and the Minister here is using it as an electioneering opportunity anyway purely because it made an RTE News report.

Charity - which is what this is - begins at home and as I said above, we have more than enough deserving people who DO have a legal right and entitlement to these services who should be getting any extra assistance first.

Billy86 · 15-08-2015 12:24am

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

My issue is with the fact she is an asylum seeker. If her application is rejected then what happens? For all we know her claim could be bogus.

No, your issue was that her score was "not exceptional" - which it very clearly was.

Your other issue was that it was "unfair on Irish students" - which this very clearly isn't. Any Irish student without the financial means to go to college who does well in their leaving cert gets the same.

You also initially labelled her a refugee for some reason (though did quickly correct it), despite the very article you linked to never once using the word.

Now your issue is with the legitimacy of her claim, of which none of know anything except that the Ukraine is still very unstable right now.

15-08-2015 12:24am

goose2005 wrote: »

It's difficult to imagine anyone making a plausible case for it being unsafe for her to return to Ukraine. Parts of Ukraine are unsafe, but I don't see why Lviv is more dangerous than Dublin.

But we don't really know their reasons for leaving Ukraine, do we? I mean, there could be something besides the war that would make it dangerous for them to ever return.

One eyed Jack · 15-08-2015 12:24am

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

Oh shut up with this nonsense. I've no issue with foreigners or refugees even, but I do have issues with people who have yet to gain refugee status getting financial support for their studies when their application could be complete bogus.

Has Jan O' Sullivan actually in her capacity as the Minister for Education made any declaration that this girl's education will actually be funded by the State?

I don't think she has.

EB_2013 · 15-08-2015 12:25am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Unless she leaves for an easier job elsewhere as soon as shes qualified.........

That's if she qualifies. Might end up dropping out after a year or two.

_Kaiser_ · 15-08-2015 12:27am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Has Jan O' Sullivan actually in her capacity as the Minister for Education made any declaration that this girl's education will actually be funded by the State?

I don't think she has.

From the article....

But on Thursday Minister for Education Jan O’Sullivan said she would give “every assistance” to Ms Kern.

“She is a very impressive young woman. She didn’t obviously know what points she was going to get but she expected that she might get into college...It’s an individual case but I will give Anna every assistance I can,” said Ms O’Sullivan.

On Friday Ms Kern told RTÉ’s Morning Ireland: “Jan O’Sullivan said I should accept my offer on Monday. She contacted the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin and she will, they will together find a way.”

So yes, apparently she has.

conorh91 · 15-08-2015 12:27am

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

People who come here as overseas students would generally have equivelant educucational oppurtunities if they stayed in their country of origin

What is the factual basis for that claim?

This girl spent approximately three years in education in Ireland, and did far better then people educated here since baby infants. She now seeks training in a particularly valuable, publicly appreciated course of study.

We should be bending over backwards to facilitate this type of ambition. You cannot seriously believe that she deserves to lose her place to some guy who's had a world-class education handed to him for 13+ years, unquestioningly, on a plate?

otpmb · 15-08-2015 12:27am

EB_2013 wrote: »

That's if she qualifies. Might end up dropping out after a year or two.

Dropout rate is very low in Med-

http://www.thejournal.ie/college-drop-out-rates-revealed-40207-Oct2010/

0byme75341jo28 · 15-08-2015 12:28am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Charity - which is what this is - begins at home and as I said above, we have more than enough deserving people who DO have a legal right and entitlement to these services who should be getting any extra assistance first.

Exactly.

If she was the one who got 9 A1s then I'd say fair play, maybe give her some assistance. 575 isn't good enough to make a special case for her.

Gallagher1 · 15-08-2015 12:29am

otpmb wrote: »

Dropout rate is very low in Med-

http://www.thejournal.ie/college-drop-out-rates-revealed-40207-Oct2010/

She's not doing Med. She's doing physiotherapy. She wasn't allowed sit the HPAT due to being an asylum seeker(Which is an odd reason for not letting someone sit an exam).

_Kaiser_ · 15-08-2015 12:30am

Alfredo Acidic Actress wrote: »

Exactly.

If she was the one who got 9 A1s then I'd say fair play, maybe give her some assistance. 575 isn't good enough to make a special case for her.

I'd respectfully disagree

The number of points is not a factor. She did well, and fair play to her for that - but that doesn't change the reality of her situation, or indeed the thousands of others in the DP process.

Should we make exceptions for them too?

15-08-2015 12:31am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

From the article....

So yes, apparently she has.

I don't know ...

The quote directly attributed to the Minister is that she will do everything that she can - this isn't necessarily guaranteeing that anything will happen, but if it can happen, then she'll do it.

The other quote comes from the girl, so we don't know exactly what the Minister said, but it just sounds like she made contact to see what can be done.

OP, what did you get in your leaving that you think 575 isn't an exceptional score?

Billy86 · 15-08-2015 12:32am

frostyjacks wrote: »

If we pony up for this girl, next year we'll have a hundred immigrants asking for the same thing, and a thousand the year after. No dice I'm afraid.

Sh*t, an influx of a thousand young people with 575+ leaving cert points... hell on earth right there, folks! Hell. On. Earth.

0byme75341jo28 · 15-08-2015 12:34am

Billy86 wrote: »

Sh*t, an influx of a thousand young people with 575+ leaving cert points... hell on earth right there, folks! Hell. On. Earth.

It actually would be, for Irish students. Just imagine the points inflation.

That said, a thousand is a huge huge huge exaggeration.

Kiwi in IE · 15-08-2015 12:34am

conorh91 wrote: »

What is the factual basis for that claim?

This girl spent approximately three years in education in Ireland, and did far better then people educated here since baby infants. She now seeks training in a particularly valuable, publicly appreciated course of study.

We should be bending over backwards to facilitate this type of ambition. You cannot seriously believe that she deserves to lose her place to some guy who's had a world-class education handed to him for 13+ years, unquestioningly, on a plate?

You have misinterpreted my post big time!

In early posts posters where saying that she should be 'treated like any other overseas student', e.g pay fees at the same level that an American, Australian or Canadian would pay if they choose to come to study here as an overseas experience whilst in college.

What I was saying is that the situation of this girl is very far removed from the above. She is an asylum seeker which is very different from being a generally wealthy, privileged student from another first world country who is paying to have a particular life experience.

And I totally agree with everything else you have said.

One eyed Jack · 15-08-2015 12:34am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

IF she qualifies. IF she finds a job here and doesn't emigrate like many graduates in that sector have done in recent times

But it's also irrelevant as right now her legal status in this country hasn't been determined, and the Minister here is using it as an electioneering opportunity anyway purely because it made an RTE News report.

Charity - which is what this is - begins at home and as I said above, we have more than enough deserving people who DO have a legal right and entitlement to these services who should be getting any extra assistance first.

How is the Minister trying to make this girl's case an election issue?

Charity begins where private individuals and institutions decide it begins, and they are perfectly entitled to do so. I haven't seen the Minister promise any financial assistance. If this girl was determined enough to achieve the results she did in an Irish Leaving Certificate exam, then I personally have no problem with my tax contributions funding her further education. I'd sooner they were used to fund someone who deserves it, than someone who simply feels they are entitled to it by circumstances of their birth and have yet to actually show any sign of contributing to the economy.

0byme75341jo28 · 15-08-2015 12:36am

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

You have misinterpreted my post big time!

In early posts posters where saying that she should be 'treated like any other overseas student', e.g pay fees at the same level that an American, Australian or Canadian would pay if they choose to come to study here as an overseas experience whilst in college.

What I was saying is that the situation of this girl is very far removed from the above. She is an asylum seeker which is very different from being a generally wealthy, privileged student from another first world country who is paying to have a particular life experience.

But she is an asylum seeker. She has no right to financial assistance from the state, legally, afaik. It would be a different situation completely if she was a refugee.

Fleawuss · 15-08-2015 12:37am

From reading the thread it seems clear that there is an expectation now following a media campaign that this student will gain access to support to which she isn't entitled. We haven't learned anything obviously from years of nod and wink, stroke politics, talking things up and disregarding rules and procedures. It's all about who you are or who you know.

One eyed Jack · 15-08-2015 12:37am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

From the article....

So yes, apparently she has.

"Every assistance" and "finding a way" is a far cry from declaring that the State will actually fund this girl's education.

Stheno · 15-08-2015 12:37am

cronin_j wrote: »

How much money are they going to recuperate from her in tax over the years?! If she's in medicine my guess is a lot.

Yes if she ends up as a consultant.

However she wants to study physiotherapy which while requiring high points has a very poor payscale.

http://www.payscale.com/research/IE/Job=Physiotherapist/Salary

A Physiotherapist earns an average salary of €33,748 per year. Experience strongly influences pay for this job. Most people with this job move on to other positions after 10 years in this career.

From the HSE, it started at 37k in 2010, http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Benefits_Services/pay/Payscalesjan2010.pdf

So at 37k and paying 8040 per year in PAYE,the 100k in fees along would take at least 12 and a half years of her working here to recoup that money from her taxes, while she still consumes public services. If she is going to get more support than just fees, considering that asylum seekers get a very basic allowance each week and work in direct provision that could double.

_Kaiser_ · 15-08-2015 12:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know ...

The quote directly attributed to the Minister is that she will do everything that she can - this isn't necessarily guaranteeing that anything will happen, but if it can happen, then she'll do it.

The other quote comes from the girl, so we don't know exactly what the Minister said, but it just sounds like she made contact to see what can be done.

It does seem like the usual clear-as-mud story alright. RTE reckons...

A spokesperson for the Department of Education said that Minister for Education Jan O'Sullivan has "made clear" that no public funds will be used to facilitate the teenager's studies.
The minister has met with Ms Kern, and spoke with her again by telephone in the past 24 hours.

However, the spokesperson refused to comment on reports that Ms O'Sullivan told her to accept an offer of a place from the Royal College of Surgeons.

Can't both be true? Is Jan O'Sullivan sponsoring her herself or something?

RichardCeann · 15-08-2015 12:39am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Has Jan O' Sullivan actually in her capacity as the Minister for Education made any declaration that this girl's education will actually be funded by the State?

I don't think she has.

Asylum-seeking students in the system for five years will now be granted equal third-level access as Irish and EU citizens resident here for three years previous.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asylum-seeker-leaving-cert-students-abandoned

Whilst the rest of the EU and especially the UK starts to really crack down on asylum shoppers, the genuises in the Dail decide to liberalise our system further.

We've already seen a surge in the numbers coming here due to the UK cracking down. Now we're offering another carrot.

But immigration officials say that many arriving here from the UK are attempting to "put down some sort of roots" here so that if they return to the UK they might be sent back to this country rather than deported to Pakistan.

Officials said there was high level concern at the influx from the UK of non-genuine Pakistani asylum seekers and confirmed that these cases were being fast-tracked through the system.

Senior Garda officers from the national bureau of immigration are assisting officials in stepping up preparations to deport the bogus applicants.

Immigration officials believe that the increase is largely being driven by a clampdown by UK authorities on "overstayers", those who want to avoid being deported from the UK.

Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald has directed her officials to take all necessary action, including enhanced co-operation with the UK authorities, to combat what officials describe as flagrant abuse of the common travel area between the two jurisdictions.

Officials are also worried that abuses of the system impacts directly on genuine asylum applicants, in terms of accommodation spaces provided and length of time to process their cases.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/young-pakistani-men-flee-uk-and-flood-into-ireland-31248564.html

The relevant immigration quangos have been lobbying for this for a while now. They got their poster girl when the results were released and ran with it. Now they have gotten what they wanted.

This girl is an exceptional student and good luck to her. But it's not just about this one girl. It's about the wider picture, the precedent and legislation that this will now set.

Asylum seeker to get college fees paid for by Department of Education.

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