S05E09: The Dance of Dragons - Have NOT read the books

Adamocovic

Can't wait to see how Davos reacts, surely he'll be given orders to stay with the Watch for now or either the weather or an attack/uprising prevents him from coming back to Stannis. Stannis knows full well how Davos will react.

I don't really know who to root for at this stage, I find myself supporting Daenerys only because I want Tyrion to do well. I'd love for Theon to kill Ramsay and maybe somehow escape but he doesn't look like he has the courage at all to do that.

I'm really interested to see how Jaime reacts to finding out the news of Cersei, and for the love of all the gods new and old please say they show the Mountain next week! Dying to see the reactions when he is chosen for trial by combat, which come on has to happen.

wp_rathead

Austria! wrote: »

I agree. Who hasn't burnt their own daughter alive at some stage? It's PC gone mad.

Infairness, it's not as black and white as this
Obviously our normal emotional reaction is "what the actual fnck dude?! That's your daughter"
But there is more to it than that
Someone on reddit posted this:

I think this makes Stannis an ever more compelling character. He literally killed his own daughter for what he thought is the greater good, a decision most people would be too selfish to even consider. How many children might die if Shireen wasn’t sacrificed? Or maybe you’re of the belief that such a decision undermines the point of living, as Davos believes.

I mean look at Jamie Lannister - throughout the show he has been referred to as Kingslayer and Oathbreaker, a man who committed Regicide. Later we find out that Jamie killed The Mad King because he had ordered the wildfire to be set alight in Kingslanding - which would have resulted in thousands burning alive

PressRun

In fairness, the point about Stannis killing Shireen for the greater good only stands if you truly believe that Stannis is the man to defeat the white walkers. I don't think he is, personally. I don't even think he is part of Melisandre's long term plan which would make him burning his own daughter alive an empty act of utter lunacy.

Vojera

OhHiMark wrote: »

She is a clueless and uninformed child. It would be a lot more ridiculous if she went into Westeros and took it over without going through everything what she's going through now. Things that will teach her how to rule.

I've no issue with her story up to now, just her attitude. She expects things to happen for her because of who she is, but she doesn't seem to have made much of an effort to educate herself about her home country and she's naive to believe that the smallfolk care about who sits on the Iron Throne beyond how much they have to pay in taxes and that their farms and businesses are protected.

To that end, I'm hoping that Tyrion's presence will be a bit of a wake-up call for her. As long as we've seen her she has either been used as a bargaining chip or surrounded by yes-men. I'm hoping that someone like Tyrion will challenge her and help her to grow as a person beyond "I'm a Targaryan and I have dragons so I get what I want".

wp_rathead

PressRun wrote: »

In fairness, the point about Stannis killing Shireen for the greater good only stands if you truly believe that Stannis is the man to defeat the white walkers. I don't think he is, personally. I don't even think he is part of Melisandre's long term plan which would make him burning his own daughter alive an empty act of utter lunacy.

True, but he firmly believes that he is
He truly believes he must do this to save the realm
Like you I don't think he is The Chosen One, which makes the sacrifices all the more heartwrenching to watch
Unlike The Mad King,though, he takes no pleasure in these sacrifices
Again I refer to the conversation he had with Shireen :
Stannis "Which dragon would you choose?"
Shireen "I wouldn't have chosen either. It was all the choosing a side that made everybody so horrible"
Stannis "Sometimes a person has to choose. Sometimes the world forces his hand. If a man knows what he is, and remains true to himself- the choice is no choice at all. He must fulfill his destiny and become who he was meant to be. However much he may hate it."

PressRun

I think his actions still have an air of "the mad king" about them though, whether he takes pleasure in them or not. He has burned his daughter (and others) alive on the advice of a woman most people seem to know very little about. Stannis believes what he believes, but he is a fanatic nonetheless, and as such, I find it really difficult to sympathise with him.

Hazys

wp_rathead wrote: »

Feel for Danys other two dragons chained up - they only there cuase Drogon went rogue and went killing people and livestock. Now Drogon the hero

So Hizdar wasn't Leader of the Harpy afterall
If anything, was suspiciously like Daario's Plan of "gather all the master's and slaughter them" that played out

Glad for Jorah- he prob jizzed his pants when Dany took his hand

Relieved The Watch let Jon and Wildlings in- worried they would leave them out

I still can't bring myself to think what Stannis did
I shouted at my laptop

Jorah has grey scale, isn't it contagious by touch?

Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLnWf1sQkjY

OldieWilson wrote: »

May be wrong but I thought it was implied that it's only infectious once you become a full-on stoneman?

Didn't Stannis' daughter pick it up off a Teddy Bear he bought from a merchant?

Surely the merchant wasn't a full on stone man as Stannis would have never bought the teddy bear from him if it was that obvious?

Seems like its pretty contagious even if you are not a stone man.

bopper wrote: »

Not unless she touched the actual greyscale.

Sorry replying before reading the entire thread has lead me to multiple not so ninja edits.

The grey scale seems transferable through Teddy Bears and/or touching the actual grey scale.

Dickerty

Pat Mustard wrote: »

And The Atomic Sandkittens. Can't wait for their new album.

They are basically this...

wp_rathead

Ya, like I get what you are saying PressRun and I wouldn't disagree with you tbh
Just look at my original post in this for my initial reaction :pac:

I just think his decision is more layered than what many of us giving thought to (because what he did is really horrific, no getting away from that)

PressRun

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ya, like I get what you are saying PressRun and I wouldn't disagree with you tbh
Just look at my original post in this for my initial reaction :pac:

I just think his decision is more layered than what many of us giving thought to (because what he did is really horrific, no getting away from that)

Oh, there's definitely layers to it beyond 'Stannis is evil'. I believe that he believes he's doing the right thing for the long-term, but I also think he's absolutely crazy for believing it at the same time. Like the Sparrows, they think they're performing on behalf of some greater power and have a duty to clean up King's Landing, and that they are representative of the many in the face of corrupt one-percenters like the Lannisters and Tyrells. I believe too that they believe they're doing the right thing, but they're still nutjobs nonetheless. I'm not sure that fanatics like these can really be trusted to be good leaders, no matter how much they might think they're in the right.

I don't think Stannis will have an easy time convincing the northerners he's the man for the job either after all of this.

Hazys

Puddle Q wrote: »

The unsullied becoming useless spastics is also unbelievable.

Yeah, they have been trained as warriors since they are kids but they are getting dominated by the Sons of the Harpy at every chance, who are just slave drivers and not skilled warriors.

Somebody mentioned that they specifically trained for open field combat with their long spears, jesus f christ with that many years of combat training you'd think they'd be able to adapt for some stadium security and not get slaughtered.

After how the Gardai Siochana handled the the English soccer fans in Landsdowne at the weekend without incident, I'd take the Gardai armed with only notepads over the unsullied and their long spears to protect Daenerys anyday....useless fcuks

Sheeeeit

Greyworm would have sorted the whole thing by himself. But then he would have cried because he misses Missandei. But then he would have seen her and would have been happy again. But then he would have cried because he has no willy.

Austria!

Hazys wrote: »

Yeah, they have been trained as warriors since they are kids but they are getting dominated by the Sons of the Harpy at every chance, who are just slave drivers and not skilled warriors.

Do we know what the sons of the harpy even are? The were merely assumed to be hired by the masters to oppose Dani, but they killed the masters in the stadium so they could be on any side and have any level of training as far as anyone knows now.

They greatly outnumbered the unsullied in the stadium too, so I don't know why everyone is bashing the unsullied.

Hazys

Austria! wrote: »

Do we know what the sons of the harpy even are? The were merely assumed to be hired by the masters to oppose Dani, but they killed the masters in the stadium so they could be on any side and have any level of training as far as anyone knows now.

They greatly outnumbered the unsullied in the stadium too, so I don't know why everyone is bashing the unsullied.

I thought they were the slave drivers used by the masters for years.

Could be wrong tho.

SoupyNorman

Austria! wrote: »

...They greatly outnumbered the unsullied in the stadium too, so I don't know why everyone is bashing the unsullied.

I can only assume that there were not many unsullied assigned to the arena. It's possible that they'll show up and save the rest of the lads that Dany up and left to be slaughted.

On a side note, how bad is this Daario? He has zero appeal as a leader/killer/anything. His 'quick man against muscle' speech really irked me, in fact, he's irked me since they changed the actor.

Sheeeeit

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I can only assume that there were not many unsullied assigned to the arena. It's possible that they'll show up and save the rest of the lads that Dany up and left to be slaughted.

On a side note, how bad is this Daario? He has zero appeal as a leader/killer/anything. His 'quick man against muscle' speech really irked me, in fact, he's irked me since they changed the actor.

The old actor was way worse imo

alchemist33

This actor looks too much like Desmond from Lost for my liking. But then the old one looked too much like Andy Carroll.

SoupyNorman

Sheeeeit wrote: »

The old actor was way worse imo

I admit the old guy wasnt much better but he was better.

After that we're just splidding heirs.

DeVore

What shocked me about that episode (apart from burning the princess OMG...) was that its the second last of the season... it kinda feels like the season is only getting into its stride now. Last season we had the reveal of the white walkers and I thought, given that, that we would see a lot of them this season... well, certainly more than a 20 minute fight scene no matter how awesome it was.

Part of the problem has been that there are 5 distinct areas this season... Arya, Cersei, Jon, Dorn and Khalessi basically... along with bits of Sansa and Stannis. That basically breaks up the hour into about 10 minutes each. Its a very choppy way to tell a story as you never really get into any one of them for long before they have to move on to the next one. Previous seasons have had lots of storylines too, but most were set in one of three physical locations and felt more meaty as a result. Sure we might have had a focus on Tyrion one week and Cersei the next but it felt like the whole Kings Landing story was moving on...

This has kinda of felt like a "filler" season as pieces were moved around the board (Stannis to the north, Tyrion to the east, Sansa to the North East and Ayra to Bravos etc...).... feels like things are being set up for something bigger, but it wont be this season which is disappointing.

Finally, I wonder what has happened to Varys... he's just disappeared off the face of the planet by the looks of things.

Sheeeeit

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I admit the old guy wasnt much better but he was better.

After that we're just splidding heirs.

Just look at that face though..

Sheeeeit

DeVore wrote: »

Last season we had the reveal of the white walkers and I thought, given that, that we would see a lot of them this season... well, certainly more than a 20 minute fight scene no matter how awesome it was.
.

Weren't the white walkers revealed in season 2 or something? Some could argue season 1 even.

SoupyNorman

Sheeeeit wrote: »

Just look at that face though..

The face only a mother of dragons could love.

SoupyNorman

DeVore wrote: »

...Part of the problem has been that there are 5 distinct areas this season... Arya

I think they're making a dogs dinner out of Ayras revenge. The whole Sir Merrin sequence was quite strange and poorly done. Ok, granted we have not seen the crescendo yet so I'm hoping it's good.

MakeEmLaugh

Did anyone else find the scene with Meryn Trant in the brothel very uncomfortable?

I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to portray characters who are paedophiles, but when it's used as a plot device (i.e. something that will presumably allow Arya to get close to Trant and exact her revenge), it does seem slightly distasteful.

Yes, I'm aware this may sound ridiculous considering the show has depicted mutilation, torture, rape and child murder before.

DeVore

MakeEmLaugh wrote: »

Did anyone else find the scene with Meryn Trant in the brothel very uncomfortable?

I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to portray characters who are paedophiles, but when it's used as a plot device (i.e. something that will presumably allow Arya to get close to Trant and exact her revenge), it does seem slightly distasteful.

Yes, I'm aware this may sound ridiculous considering the show has depicted mutilation, torture, rape and child murder before.

It seemed unnecessary and hamfisted emotional manipulation to me. I just felt like they were flagging it for everyone "hey, this guy is a bad man, its ok if Ayra wants to kill him". Given that they are using it for that reason (seemingly) then yeah, it seems distasteful. It also felt a bit patronising... I don't need it laid out blatantly like that. Its about the same level as putting a black cowboy had on him...

DeadHand

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I admit the old guy wasnt much better but he was better.

After that we're just splidding heirs.

I thought the old guy was much better! He projected an air of cold arrogance and genuine danger.

The new guy looks and acts as if he's in a romcom.

Sheeeeit

DeVore wrote: »

It seemed unnecessary and hamfisted emotional manipulation to me. I just felt like they were flagging it for everyone "hey, this guy is a bad man, its ok if Ayra wants to kill him". Given that they are using it for that reason (seemingly) then yeah, it seems distasteful. It also felt a bit patronising... I don't need it laid out blatantly like that. Its about the same level as putting a black cowboy had on him...

I think they used it to show a way for Arya to get access to assassinate him.
He said "You'll have a fresh one for me tomorrow yeah?".
If Arya presents herself to be his next victim she can quietly take him out when they are alone in the room.

MakeEmLaugh

Sheeeeit wrote: »

I think they used to show a way for Arya to get access to assassinate him.
He said "You'll have a fresh one for me tomorrow yeah?".
If Arya presents herself to be his next victim she can quietly take him out when they are alone in the room.

I felt that was pretty obvious, alright.

Does anyone know how young the actress was that played the girl Trant took aside? You looked younger than 16 (though I'm aware actors and actresses often play roles far younger than they are).

dark crystal

DeVore wrote: »

What shocked me about that episode (apart from burning the princess OMG...) was that its the second last of the season... it kinda feels like the season is only getting into its stride now. Last season we had the reveal of the white walkers and I thought, given that, that we would see a lot of them this season... well, certainly more than a 20 minute fight scene no matter how awesome it was.

I'd say the White Walkers will be more prevalent next season and will have something to do with Bran's storyline (I'm assuming he'll reappear with his new Jedi powers next season....). Those powers could come in very handy for Jon right now. I can't wait for at least some of the surviving Stark siblings to finally reunite!

Speaking of which, does anyone know how close Sansa is to Jon in Castle Black? I'm assuming if Stannis is close enough to attack the Boltons, Castle Black isn't that far away?

DeVore

Yeah, we basically saw none of Bran's (rather dull so far) timeline this season, which I guess was purely for reasons of time constraint... I know the answer is basically "the production levels are so high" but it seems crazy that they cant do more than 10 episodes in a season.

We have to wait until Spring 2016 for another 10 episodes