What would you like the next referendum to legalise abortion or euthanasia?

Kiwi in IE

Abortion is an emergency. The fact that a woman cannot get an abortion when a pregnancy poses a risk to her health is barbaric.

It is absurd that it is unavailable, but with the attitudes of some people I'm not sure that it would pass. We probably need another 10 years of 'out with the old, in with the new' voters for it to pass comfortably. In the meantime women will continue to be put in desperate situations.

eviltwin

thee glitz wrote: »

I'm not for preventing anyone going to the England.
It's important that anyone considering such be given the
best support and advice if this looks their best solution.

Its funny how you were very anti abortion until FourDaFaFa mention migrant women, you changed your tune pretty sharp then so you're racist now as well?

RobertKK

I thought it was ironic that some people including the Labour party went straight from the marriage referendum to repeal the 8th, given some on the Yes side questioned the integrity of No people in regards to children and how much they really cared for children.
Some of the same people now looking for abortion, talking in general and not about anyone here.
I hope we don't have a referendum on abortion, it is a very serious subject, whatever side one is on, both sides with deep held views on the subject and it would be nasty.

Truth is we had enough referendums for a while, the electorate is a bit worn out after the ones we just had, and I can't see us having any more this year or before a general election.
Certainly a contentious referendum is not needed right now.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

S.O, you might want to google that horseshít before you swallow it.

thee glitz

eviltwin wrote: »

Its funny how you were very anti abortion until FourDaFaFa mention migrant women, you changed your tune pretty sharp then so you're racist now as well?

I'm still very anti abortion, it's as selfish an action can be.
I said they should be allowed go to England if they please.
It's sad that anyone would though.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

thee glitz wrote: »

I'm still very anti abortion, it's as selfish an action can be.
I said they should be allowed go to England if they please.
It's sad that anyone would though.

Once again, if it's MURDER, why should people be allowed to travel to England to MURDER someone?

tipparetops

thee glitz wrote: »

I'm still very anti abortion, it's as selfish an action can be.
I said they should be allowed go to England if they please.
It's sad that anyone would though.

Would you have same stance with assisted suicide.

Kiwi in IE

RobertKK wrote: »

I thought it was ironic that some people including the Labour party went straight from the marriage referendum to repeal the 8th, given some on the Yes side questioned the integrity of No people in regards to children and how much they really cared for children.
Some of the same people now looking for abortion, talking in general and not about anyone here.
I hope we don't have a referendum on abortion, it is a very serious subject, whatever side one is on, both sides with deep held views on the subject and it would be nasty.

Truth is we had enough referendums for a while, the electorate is a bit worn out after the ones we just had, and I can't see us having any more this year or before a general election.
Certainly a contentious referendum is not needed right now.

Nobody is talking about children Robert. This discussion is about aborting foetuses not children.

Terrlock

I wonder how many people that are alive today promoting abortion wouldn't be if we had abortion in Ireland before they were born.


World death statistics - so far there has been 22,747,865 deaths this year. This includes all type of deaths from war to diseases. However it does not include abortion.


The biggest killer in the world at the moment is Coronary Heart Disease - 7,253,824 people have died from this worldwide so far this year.

However Abortion dwarfs this - there has been 16,242,715 abortions so far this year.

That is a lot of people who would have previously been born that now are not.

In my view this is nothing more then a tool for the elite for population control.

The number of abortions so far in the USA this year are 437,505 and only 4,208 were due to rape.

RayM wrote: »

Our abortion laws should be brought in line with the rest of the civilised, secular world.

That's an appalling statistic and certainly not the sign of a more civilized society.

thee glitz

Sydney Chilly Magnate wrote: »

Once again, if it's MURDER, why should people be allowed to travel to England to MURDER someone?

Yep, it's murder. Travelling however isn't. Maybe you're right though... maybe they shouldn't be allowed.

Riverireland

I won't be needing a termination but fully believe in the right to choose, it's not like anyone sets out to be in that position.

Euthanasia I believe should also be a personal choice, and I would like that choice should I ever feel I require it!

Can't see any government tackling these but they do need to be legalised imo.

thee glitz

tipparetops wrote: »

Would you have same stance with assisted suicide.

As above, yes, but they are completely different actions.

Kiwi in IE

thee glitz wrote: »

Yep, it's murder. Travelling however isn't. Maybe you're right though... maybe they shouldn't be allowed.

Mandatory pregnancy tests at the departures gate?

Kells1

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Abortion is an emergency. The fact that a woman cannot get an abortion when a pregnancy poses a risk to her health is barbaric.

You can butter it up all you like nevertheless the fact is abortion is the killing of an innocent child period. Whatever reason you have convinced yourself that the killing of this child is ok it is extremely barbaric to do so..and the actual techniques used to kill the child are also barbaric. try google for an in depth description of the act

Riverireland

Terrlock wrote: »

I wonder how many people that are alive today promoting abortion wouldn't be if we had abortion in Ireland before they were born.


World death statistics - so far there has been 22,747,865 deaths this year. This includes all type of deaths from war to diseases. However it does not include abortion.


The biggest killer in the world at the moment is Coronary Heart Disease - 7,253,824 people have died from this worldwide so far this year.

However Abortion dwarfs this - there has been 16,242,715 abortions so far this year.

That is a lot of people who would have previously been born that now are not.

In my view this is nothing more then a tool for the elite for population control.

The number of abortions so far in the USA this year are 437,505 and only 4,208 were due to rape.

That's an appalling statistic and certainly not the sign of a more civilized society.

It's a given that abortion is not a nice thing to have to do! But seriously, who would want to be an unwanted baby? You have got to leave grown adults make decisions for themselves in matters that do not effect you!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Kells1 wrote: »

You can butter it up all you like nevertheless the fact is abortion is the killing of an innocent child period. Whatever reason you have convinced yourself that the killing of this child is ok it is extremely barbaric to do so..and the actual techniques used to kill the child are also barbaric. try google for an in depth description of the act

I know, swallowing pills, it's terrible.

thee glitz

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Mandatory pregnancy tests at the departures gate?

No, nothing wrong with travelling, not doing anything illegal.

thee glitz

Riverireland wrote: »

But seriously, who would want to be an unwanted baby?

Have you ever met someone who's adopted?

S.O

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Abortion is an emergency. The fact that a woman cannot get an abortion when a pregnancy poses a risk to her health is barbaric.

It is absurd that it is unavailable, but with the attitudes of some people I'm not sure that it would pass. We probably need another 10 years of 'out with the old, in with the new' voters for it to pass comfortably. In the meantime women will continue to be put in desperate situations.

If its a crisis pregnancy with a threat to the life of the woman that is one thing, abortion on request like as in the UK is another different category completely, I would point peoples attention to one news report a few years ago.

Three babies aborted every day due to Down's syndrome

Three babies are being aborted every day due to Down's syndrome, according to a study which shows the number of terminations has more than trebled in the last 20 years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/6440705/Three-babies-aborted-every-day-due-to-Downs-syndrome.html

Abortion on request leads to real life stories as such the news article I posted, another issue with abortion on request being legalised, what if a couple want to have a baby boy or baby girl as a preference and then upon pregnancy scan its a baby girl and decide we would prefer a baby boy and seek an abortion based on the babys gender as which happens in some countries over in the far east.

fiachr_a

Constitutional claim over Northern Ireland again referendum should be the next one.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

thee glitz wrote: »

No, nothing wrong with travelling, not doing anything illegal.

So legalise abortion here. Not illegal, not wrong?

Is it a legal or a moral issue? If it's moral, how is it morally right to facilitate people to commit murder by allowing them to travel when they could be prevented?

Kiwi in IE

Terrlock wrote: »

I wonder how many people that are alive today promoting abortion wouldn't be if we had abortion in Ireland before they were born.

Well I know that I wouldn't have been aborted because abortion laws in New Zealand, in their current form, were brought in the same year I was born, 38 years ago!

Although I don't believe in reason hierarchy, tell me this; Why should a woman be forced to carry a pregnancy to term against her will when doing so going to cause long term damage to her health?

Riverireland

thee glitz wrote: »

Have you ever met someone who's adopted?

Of course. Would I force a woman or girl to continue with a pregnancy to provide a baby to be adopted? Absolutely not!!!

RobertKK

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Nobody is talking about children Robert. This discussion is about aborting foetuses not children.

Well the heart has been beating since about 7 weeks in the womb, it is ending a life, thus it is called a termination.
In the UK they allow abortion upto 24 weeks, yet there are babies born prematurely at 22 weeks and who live.
I believe if the unborn were not hidden away in a Uterus, there would be far less pro-choice people.

It reminds me of that article written by ethicists from Oxford who said infanticide should be allowed as the reality is it is no different from abortion.
Here is what they said: “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”
“Both a fetus and a newborn certainly are human beings and potential persons, but neither is a ‘person’ in the sense of ‘subject of a moral right to life’. “We take ‘person’ to mean an individual who is capable of attributing to her own existence some (at least) basic value such that being deprived of this existence represents a loss to her.”
As such they argued it was “not possible to damage a newborn by preventing her from developing the potentiality to become a person in the morally relevant sense”.
They go onto say “what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled”.



The logic that is used to justify abortion has been used by ethicists to argue for infanticide, this is how weak the argument on abortion is.
One doctor said that if it wasn't going to be called infanticide and instead to be called 'after birth abortion', that one could then say abortion in the womb is antenatal infanticide.


Here is the article where experts say killing babies is no different from abortion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9113394/Killing-babies-no-different-from-abortion-experts-say.html

Riverireland

Mods, could we have an option on the poll that says "both".

thee glitz

Sydney Chilly Magnate wrote: »

So legalise abortion here. Not illegal, not wrong?

Legalise here, not an offence, but still wrong.

Is it a legal or a moral issue? If it's moral, how is it morally right to facilitate people to commit murder by allowing them to travel when they could be prevented?

Both moral and legal. It's not right, I wouldn't facilitate abortion.
Not allowing females to travel would be a disproportionate move,
they're not doing anything illegal.

Riverireland wrote: »

Of course. Would I force a woman or girl to continue with a pregnancy to provide a baby to be adopted? Absolutely not!!!

What would you do?

Kiwi in IE

It is not 'killing a child' it is removing a foetus that cannot live without a human host. So long as a foetus cannot live outside a woman's body, it should not have rights separate to hers.

thee glitz

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

It is not 'killing a child' it is removing a foetus that cannot live without a human host. So long as a foetus cannot live outside a woman's body, it should not have rights separate to hers.

It's unnecessarily taking someone's life.

RobertKK

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

It is not 'killing a child' it is removing a foetus that cannot live without a human host. So long as a foetus cannot live outside a woman's body, it should not have rights separate to hers.

A baby cannot live outside the human body without a host to look after it, so you have justified the Oxford ethicists who say killing babies should be allowed.

Kells1

Sydney Chilly Magnate wrote: »

I know, swallowing pills, it's terrible.

Try googling abortion techniques and u might be surprised by some of the other barbaric practices that are commonly used