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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Hi bucketybuck, welcome back and here's to a successful DCM in 2015. Did the injury happen during the race series HM? Have you had an recurrence of it? Your cross training will stand to you and it looks like you are building conservatively. Try to keep within the 10% rule as you build (only build in increments of 10% each week). I agree that you should aim for a conservative target for now and an extra day or two running as we go along will only help you. Have you had a look at the pre-marathon plan? If you jump in now at an appropriate weekly mileage for you, you'll be rearing to go on the 22nd
I'm not doing a pre-marathon plan as such. I have a 10k race on June 13th, and then the Docklands 5k next month so I am building up towards them and will be going for PB's. The training for those will be my base, once they are over I'll go back and start from the start of the Higdon novice plan, following it to the letter.
The injury last year didn't happen during a race, but during the 1/2 marathon LSR part of the Higdon plan, week 8 or 9 I think. It wasn't the worst injury I've ever had, but I did have to stop and rest it a few weeks at the worst possible time. The physio said I could probably have continued on and managed the injury, but I don't think I could have done myself any justice trying to run the DCM after missing a month of the training plan, so I made the call.
My problem is that I have always been prone to muscle injuries, its a constant threat and if I stopped for every little ache or pain I'd never get down the street. Hopefully I get luckier this time.0 -
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What is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Have a GAA background. Played hurling all my life to senior club level. That petered out over the last few years. Got lazy, gained weight so took up running about 3 years to get active again.
Only ever ran 4-5 mile a few times a week, never progressed on my own.
Joined my local running club in October 14 and got going properly since.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Limerick Marathon 15 (first) 4:08.
10k 46:40
The 10k was in March and my first ever 10k. Prior to that I had only ever ran 5k races. So I jumped from 5k races to the marathon!
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No.
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently taking it easy after running my first marathon in Limerick. Up to that was training 3 times per week, Tempo, speed and LSR at the weekend.
Will hopefully introduce some strength work as I think this let me down in Limerick.
How many days a week can you train?
4.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Sub 4hrs. That was the goal for Limerick but once mile 20 hit it was just about getting over the line.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
Run with the club and follow their plan but maybe introduce a 4th run per week.
Hi BullBauld, welcome and well done so far, especially on joining a club
You're right to be taking it easy at the mo, two marathons in a year is a serious undertaking! On the plus side, your already very respectable 10k time is ripe for the taking...and the fitness from marathon training is in the bank. I agree with your plan to introduce a fourth run. You've made great progress so far but more miles = more aerobic fitness = increased endurance and that is exactly what you need when marathon training. It doesn't have to be a lot for now, just a recovery run of about 40 minutes. I'd even be thinking of a fifth day further down the line or some form of cross training along with some strength and conditioning for that sub 4 attempt
Doesn't look like you bonked that much tho after mile 20?! 0 -
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Great thread
What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
- No athletics background, only took up running about 9 -12months ago. Any other sports have been fairly casual - nothing competitive
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
- Lots of 5ks, parkruns etc PB = 20.45 (in recent weeks)
- Quite a few 10ks, PB 45.30 late last year. Aiming to break 45mins in coming weeks.
- Only one official half marathon - Temple Street Half Marathon on the Aran Islands - 1hr 41mins which I was delighted with.
- Longest run to date was a 30k training run in 2hr 38mins - pace really slowed after the first 21k
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
- No
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
- Generally do something around 6 days a week - probably 3 runs, 2 x 1hr gym sessions and a 1km pool swim.... on average
How many days a week do you run only?
- 3 most weeks, sometimes 4.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
- Would like to break 4 hours but I've heard of so many people hitting the wall in the second half of last year's marathon that I'm unsure about setting this as a firm target.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
- Haven't decided yet
Hi there TheBazman. Your progress sounds very familiar ...our times (mine from last year) stack up almost parallel so I'll be keeping a close eye on you
Anyone targeting a sub4 (and it will be possible for many) need to concentrate on getting aerobically strong and putting themselves in a good position for the long runs of 16m plus. You (like me last year) would be at the weaker end of the endurance spectrum as you are only entering your second cycle of training but unlike me, you have a good mix of cross training going on. Is the gym work designed to support running? Might be worth looking into a programme if not and if anyone could jump in with a programme that had worked for them, that would be great.0 -
Hi diego_bWhat is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Running for two years, nothing outside of that barring Astro once a week.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Not counting park runs probably about 10 times in the last two years, 10K would be my most favourite racing distance.
5K - 22:50 (29/03/2015)
5mile - 39:36 (27/05/2014)
10K - 47:15 (04/04/2015)
Half - 1:56:56 (03/05/2015)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
Never
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I run 3 times a week currently, once with a running group on a Wed/Thursday night (typically a hard run on the road), once with my wife (an easy pace on the beach) and once on my own (on the road)...not too hard and not too easy.
Cross train on a Tuesday night with my club working on speed and strength for an hour on a grass pitch.
How many days a week can you train?
Currently 3/4 but could probably make that 4/5.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
My main aim to complete it running and get through in good shape. I'm aiming for 4:00-4:15 but if training goes well I would go for a sub 4 if I appear capable of that with the training.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
Undecided but my running group are prescribing daily/weekly mileage starting next week so hoping to follow that and see how I go with it.
Also purchased Graham Hilditch's Half Marathon and Marathon training guide. and welcome. Well done on your progress so far! It's great to have company for running isn't it. Further down the line, they'll help the miles fly along but at the same time, no harm to get a couple of long runs in on your own. I got that advice last year and it's sound advice in prep for the day itself...just you, 26.2 miles...and 15 000 others 
... What do you make of the Hilditch recommendations so far? 0 -
First off, all kudos to Dubgal for mentoring what is going to be a marathon of a thread.
What is your athletics background? Have you run before?What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
I did a C25K at the beginning of 2014 and I've been running steadily enough since. I was never really sporty (a bit of Badminton) but I've taken to the running thing.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
1/2M: Nov 2014 1:58:57
10k: May 2015 50:59
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No.
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Typically two 5mile runs during the week and a 12-13 miler at the weekend. My longest ever run was 16 miles and the thought of running an extra 10 miles on top of that seems impossible (mind you, I had the very same thoughts the first time I ran 6 miles).
How many days a week can you train?
I'm going to try to commit to 5 days, but with work and family commitments, I may have to tweak that a bit.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I'm going to keep this open for review, but for now I'm setting 4:20 as an ambitious but achievable target. Mainly I just want to complete it, but in a way that I'll feel happy that I trained for a full marathon and not 3/4s of one.
I sometimes have daydreams of a sub 4h marathon but these normally happen when I'm sitting on the couch - and not so much at the tail end of a long run. But, never say never.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
I'm thinking either the Boards plan or the Hal Higdon Novice 2, but I'll be seeking advice on that.
Hi Phoebas, thank you and welcome You've made real solid progress since the C25k, well done. Like many above, I agree with building up your running days to 4-5. It helps spread the mileage and I'd be very concerned to see your lsr as a regular 50% of your total weekly mileage = the road to injury :eek: amongst other things...and we don't want that for you If you can, between now and the start of whatever programme you decide on for 22 June, shift your running to four days and take a bit off your lsr (long slow run) so it takes up less of your total mileage for now. That could look like a 3, a 6 and a 4 during the week and a 9-10 at the weekend leaving you ready to integrate a fifth day by 22 June. You could also up the mileage across the board but only in increments of not more than 10%...slowly slowly... 0 -
Philrunner83 wrote: »Best of luck dubgal I've been waiting for this to start for ages looking forward to all the advice and training tips.. Hoping DCM will be my first :-)
Hi Philrunner and thanks
Don't be shy, jump in when you're ready and tell all 0 -
Hi BullBauld, welcome and well done so far, especially on joining a club
You're right to be taking it easy at the mo, two marathons in a year is a serious undertaking! On the plus side, your already very respectable 10k time is ripe for the taking...and the fitness from marathon training is in the bank. I agree with your plan to introduce a fourth run. You've made great progress so far but more miles = more aerobic fitness = increased endurance and that is exactly what you need when marathon training. It doesn't have to be a lot for now, just a recovery run of about 40 minutes. I'd even be thinking of a fifth day further down the line or some form of cross training along with some strength and conditioning for that sub 4 attempt Doesn't look like you bonked that much tho after mile 20?!
Thanks for the feedback Dubgal.
I've learned a lot from running my first marathon. I definitely need another run during the week and some strength and conditioning work. Will slowly introduce that over the next while.
I'm toying with running a half marathon tomorrow! good/bad idea?0 -
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Hi Denis, thanks, you're welcome but let's have it on the record, I did not volunteerFirst off, many thanks for volunteering your time over the next 6 months. Had been searching for a DCM 2015 thread and low and behold it arrives........ a good omen.
[1]What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
I would have jogged over the years to stay fit. Am probably one of the older NOVICE runners this year. Mountaineering to a competent standard (Am still alive)!!!!
[2]Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Belfast Marathon 2014 4hrs 11mins and 52 secs
Parkrun 5 km 21 even mins Dec 14.
[3]Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No
[4]How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I am just off a Higdon training programme for Belfast 2015. Am licking my wounds after having to quit at half way point this year. Something went wrong in training with about 5 weeks to go - low grade virus or may have overtrained. Possibly a combination of both. Have previously found the long slow runs a bit of a struggle at times.
[5]How many days a week do you run only?
Was running 6 times a week until Mid April and now back up to 5 times a week (in recovery) with about 30km a week and steadily increasing.
[6]What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
First up - I want to run a full marathon - from start to finish. My target time would be sub 4 hrs. That sub can be a matter of seconds. Am trying to be realistic but want a carrot of sorts. Its a long cherished ambition and now I have the time to train.
[7]What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
Happy to follow a Higdon again but will check out all options and will gladly take any advice.
Think being part of this endeavor will help with confidence and support. I probably need to line up as much as possible (hydration, stretching, nutrition, rest, pacing etc) to reach my target. Looking forward to reaching that start line to try again.
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Sounds like you have a good base, always better to have a year or two under your belt. So the mountaineering means you'll be bounding along like a mountain goat and showing all them young uns how it's done?! Your 5k time would say yes
Sorry about the dnf in Belfast but it was a wise move, you live to fight another day! You say you find the lsr's a struggle...can you tell us more? Maybe an overview of where it fits in during the weekly schedule? Don't rush back to six days a week. One thing I have taken on board as a 'mature' athlete is that quality over quantity wins the day and yes to general strength, conditioning/core work. Have a look at the boards plan, you might benefit from introducing some variation in pace. 0 -
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slogging...it wrote: »Hi
I am deffo committing to the DCM as a novice will be back with my questions after Newry hm and I know.for deffo what my goals are!
Great, talk soon and all the best at newry 0 -
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Currently training for the Cork half and also the Waterford half later in June.
Hopefully then will step it up to try and complete my first marathon!!
What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
I don't have a background in athletics, have been running about 2 years on and off. Played hurling and football at quite a competitive level up to about 4 years ago.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Great Railway Run 10k, 19-04-2015, PB 51:22
Cork Half Marathon 2014 - 01:52:14
Waterford Viking Half Marathon 2014 - PB 01:52:11
Still find it strange that both my half marathon times were so close!!!
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Usually run 3 to 4 times a week, midweek I try to do between 4 and 6 miles per session and then a longer run at the weekend. Longest run this year has been 10 miles but hopefully will be doing bit more this weekend.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
I would love to get a time of 3:59:59 or lower!! But anything within 15 mins of that would be great
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
Not too sure, have used Hal Higdon previously for a half and was happy with it
Hi raddo, welcome! You seem to like half marathons?! Two in a month says you do anyway Bear in mind that it takes 7-10 days to recover completely from racing a HM so balance that with the potential gains lost in training from your build up to a marathon plan at the moment. It's also quite a jump if your lsr is *only* 10 miles at the moment... Were the two HM times from June also last year? They certainly couldn't get much closer 0 -
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Hi there TheBazman. Your progress sounds very familiar ...our times (mine from last year) stack up almost parallel so I'll be keeping a close eye on you
Anyone targeting a sub4 (and it will be possible for many) need to concentrate on getting aerobically strong and putting themselves in a good position for the long runs of 16m plus. You (like me last year) would be at the weaker end of the endurance spectrum as you are only entering your second cycle of training but unlike me, you have a good mix of cross training going on. Is the gym work designed to support running? Might be worth looking into a programme if not and if anyone could jump in with a programme that had worked for them, that would be great.
Cheers - A fair bit of my gym work is geared towards supporting my running - so a fair bit of stretching, core work and exercises suggested by a physio to strengthen my quads/knees. Beyond that there is a little bit of weight work.0 -
Hi raddo, welcome! You seem to like half marathons?! Two in a month says you do anyway Bear in mind that it takes 7-10 days to recover completely from racing a HM so balance that with the potential gains lost in training from your build up to a marathon plan at the moment. It's also quite a jump if your lsr is *only* 10 miles at the moment... Were the two HM times from June also last year? They certainly couldn't get much closer
Hi Dubgal, thanks for the quick reply!! Hope to be reading plenty of your posts and soaking up your knowledge throughout the year!
Yeah the two HM were from last June.
I will probably be doing a longer lsr this weekend and 10 miles again next weekend prior the the Cork HM the following weekend.
Looking at the Hal Higdon plan, should I be trying to start it as per the plan or should I be starting a few weeks in as I will be already running a bit more during the week and have done longer lsr's?0 -
Thanks for that Dubgal.Hi Phoebas, thank you and welcome You've made real solid progress since the C25k, well done. Like many above, I agree with building up your running days to 4-5. It helps spread the mileage and I'd be very concerned to see your lsr as a regular 50% of your total weekly mileage = the road to injury :eek: amongst other things...and we don't want that for you If you can, between now and the start of whatever programme you decide on for 22 June, shift your running to four days and take a bit off your lsr (long slow run) so it takes up less of your total mileage for now. That could look like a 3, a 6 and a 4 during the week and a 9-10 at the weekend leaving you ready to integrate a fifth day by 22 June. You could also up the mileage across the board but only in increments of not more than 10%...slowly slowly...
I'll start balancing out my mileage a bit by adding an extra day now and shortening my long weekend run a bit. I'll aim to add a fifth day before the plan starts without adding too much overall mileage too soon.
I also need to slow down a bit on my lsr pace. Looking back over my paces for my most recent longer runs, they have been a bit faster than what I expect would be recommended for me for my long runs (16m@9:35, 15m@9:32, 14m@9:08, 14m@8:49, 15m@9:17, 14m@8:56, 14m@8:57). I've suffered a little bit since I started running with shin splints and some knee problems - nothing that didn't correct itself after a week or so of rest, but I'd definitely like to avoid that for the next 23 weeks or so.0 -
Half training run, half race :pac:
I'm kinda just mad for another race to be honest. But I wouldn't go full pelt at it that's for sure so more training run than anything. Just use it as a nicely paced LR and get a half marathon time to beat in the future. Would be my first one!
I obviously don't have to do it but itching to get out again ha.
Hi BullBauld, my initial reaction was 'don't do it!' And after a chat with my technical expert it still is...even for a training run. It's too soon after your recent marathon and you'll make far more gains at this stage by recovering fully. Hope that helps. There'll be plenty of time for a HMM, don't worry. Slowly slowly grasshopper 0 -
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Hi Dow99, definitely, here's to third time lucky! Don't beat yourself up too much about last year, it was carnage wasn't it? :eek: the heat and humidity ate me up and spat me out right from the start too. Have you had any thoughts about what you might have done differently in the run up to your previous two marathons? Was endurance a factor do you think? It's great to see you commit to 4-5 days running over the next few months but as I have recommended to other novices, build slowly and incrementally at this stage. Your strength and conditioning will stand to you also.
As a matter of interest, what programmes have you followed for the last two marathons?
Looking forward to us helping towards getting you over the line satisfiedthis year
I really wasnt prepared for the DM14. The old cliche "fail to prepare, prepare to fail" is definitely true when it comes to the marathon. I was probably a bit unmotivated and I skipped a lot of the midweek runs. I thought that once I did the long runs I would be fine, oh how wrong was I.
Also I didnt get a wink of sleep the night before and the unseasonal hot day didnt help. I felt uncomfortable from the get go! All excuses but the main reason was the lack of training.
In turn, it was a lesson learned and it has given me great respect for the distance, its a huge step up from a half marathon & I feel I know just how much hard work and commitment it takes to be able to run a marathon.
As regards to programs, I base it on Hal Higdon, that said, to my detriment I didnt stick to it
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Here's hoping I can keep the motivation up over the next 5 months!!0 -
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Hi BullBauld, my initial reaction was 'don't do it!' And after a chat with my technical expert it still is...even for a training run. It's too soon after your recent marathon and you'll make far more gains at this stage by recovering fully. Hope that helps. There'll be plenty of time for a HMM, don't worry. Slowly slowly grasshopper
I would concur with Dubgal and her technical expert. A pretty good rule of thumb for recovery is 1 day per mile raced, within that time you shouldn't do anything much to push yourself. BB - you're only 2 weeks post marathon. Give your body a chance to recover, it will perform better in the long run that way!0 -
Hi diego_b and welcome. Well done on your progress so far! It's great to have company for running isn't it. Further down the line, they'll help the miles fly along but at the same time, no harm to get a couple of long runs in on your own. I got that advice last year and it's sound advice in prep for the day itself...just you, 26.2 miles...and 15 000 others ... What do you make of the Hilditch recommendations so far?
Thank you dubgal and thank you for efforts here now and for the future, appreciate any feedback and advice you have.
I just joined up with club in the last month and the same with a running group so I can do some of the long runs in a group. My longest solo runs to date outside of a race have been 10 miles so I have a bit to step up to get used to it physically and psychologically but I will for sure do some slow ones on my own.
The book is good so far, just getting through the initial chapters but I like his approach with things. Feel I don't have to be aiming for Rio to follow his stuff. I've followed him on twitter for a year or so and he's posted some good Q&A stuff there and answered a few queries I had when I started using gels.0 -
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Hi BullBauld, my initial reaction was 'don't do it!' And after a chat with my technical expert it still is...even for a training run. It's too soon after your recent marathon and you'll make far more gains at this stage by recovering fully. Hope that helps. There'll be plenty of time for a HMM, don't worry. Slowly slowly grasshopper I would concur with Dubgal and her technical expert. A pretty good rule of thumb for recovery is 1 day per mile raced, within that time you shouldn't do anything much to push yourself. BB - you're only 2 weeks post marathon. Give your body a chance to recover, it will perform better in the long run that way!
Noted and thanks for the advice guys. Much appreciated.0 -
What is your athletics background? Have you run before? What other sports have you taken part in and at what level?
Running on and off for about 4 years but have never had a consistent year of running. Played hurling all my life up to the age of 32, i'm 38 now.
Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5K 2014 - 28Mins
1/2 2012 - 2hr 1Min (Still kills me)
1/2 2013 - 2 Hr 8 Mins
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do incl cross training? Distances, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Trying to run 3 times a week. Currently running 4 miles each run. I am finding it hard to fit in more as i do 12 hour shifts. Week 1 is 3 days and week 2 is 4 days. Also studying for a masters. I know i am taking a lot on doing this but feel i need to in order to get my head in the right place and destress if that makes sense.
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Sub 4 hour would be fantastic but just being able to enjoy it and finish with a smile would be great.
What marathon programme are you following/intending to use?
No idea thats why i am here 0 -
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