Refused a day off to attend family wedding. **Mod warning post 1**

Pretzill

It's a pain for you OP especially after trying to give so much notice but the problem may have been the request itself - cousin's wedding - doesn't maybe sound as needing of time off as sister's wedding - and then your manager may not know of your close relationship - also it's the prospect of a Sickie the day after (if it's a work day) that may put off an not very accommodating manager.

Could you work a few extra hours towards a half day? Make it in time for the reception.

BreadnBuddha

webpal wrote: »

nope, I signed a contract, which has numerous sick leave clauses and this is one. So like I said it depends, it's not incorrect, it's advice.

There are employment contracts and there are legal acts forming the basis of law. Contracts often include clauses which are not legally enforceable. Big IT companies have tried it for years and in Ireland have often backed down before putting it to the test in the labour courts. But fair enough.

And on topic - you would be a fool to not take the day off.

It doesn't sound like the manager has much respect for you in the first place, a sick day certainly won't change that. And going in certainly won't gain you any respect.

rilly99

Endthescam wrote: »

I'd look for another job.

I agree - is this a multi national and any other issues with your manager

Mrs OBumble

Some mod-notes:

Leave out the public / private sector thing: it's totally irrelevant. No one has an automatic entitlement to leave for weddings.

QuinDixie wrote: »

Read this slowly

Less of this please.

QuinDixie wrote: »

Yes you can, employees in Ireland have great protection.
or employers could use unfair warnings to remove any staff they like.

Please provide link to some authoritative source saying how an employee can "refuse a warning".




And in general, please keep the discussion civil. Thank you.

byhookorbycrook

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

And on topic - you would be a fool to not take the day off.

It doesn't sound like the manager has much respect for you in the first place, a sick day certainly won't change that. and going in certainly won't gain you any respect.

Really, so pulling a fake sickie is acceptable in the private sector???

byhookorbycrook

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Really, so pulling a fake sickie is acceptable in the private sector???

Not as acceptable as it is in the public sector, according to the statistics.

Satori Rae

If I were you I'd go see your manager
...close the office door, do a fight club on yourself then blackmail her

Wait maybe that's not such a good idea >.<

jimmycrackcorm

The op cannot take sick leave for the wedding because they've already indicated that they want the day off for a wedding.

Of course they could genuinely be sick but to avoid the implication of lying, they would have to prove it otherwise face disciplinary action.

OP should appeal to HR about it - as clearly the company is in question about . A lot does depend on what the OP's job is and the implications of being unavailable.

Perhaps the answer lies in what does happen on the days that the OP is actually sick, how is their job covered...

brandnewaward

go to the doctors the day before the wedding citing a dose of stomach flu , get a two day cert and show the cert after wedding?once you are certified , you are covered?

Full Marx

I'd start looking for a new job. I would also call in sick, except I'd take it up a notch and take a few days off and get a cert from a GP for something like gastroenteritis. (and make sure you are not friends with anyone from work on facebook). They cant say anything then, and even if they did, who cares you are looking for a new job.

You can also go over the managers head and ask for the day off. If you feel they are being unreasonable to you personally and would give someone else the day then make a complaint to HR.

marco_polo

A lot depends on the nature of the work IMO, it is shift work/customer facing then a reasonable compromise would at the very least to be to offer you the chance to swap with somebody else. If it is an office job and the two people with the day off are not even in the same department, then to not be able to accommodate the request at near four months notice smacks of unreasonableness tbh.

There is a certain amount of give and take needed particularly in jobs where a minimum headcount on a single give day is not very important (I know it is in many workplaces like healthcare, retail etc), but some employers do seem to have a wierd attitude that they are doing a massive favour giving you your statutory annual leave at all. A bit of flexibility where possible goes a long way to a happy workplace.

Flood

Wedding meals dont commence till evening so work the day and get changed at work for the meal. 35% of people dont attend the ceremony anyway.

jimmycrackcorm

Flood wrote: »

Wedding meals dont commence till evening so work the day and get changed at work for the meal. 35% of people dont attend the ceremony anyway.

Not much use if you have to travel to a wedding

Flood

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Not much use if you have to travel to a wedding

No evidence to say the op has to.

Traq

Flood wrote: »

No evidence to say the op has to.

Apart from this line in the opening post.

What makes it worse is that the wedding is outside Dublin so transportation to the venue late in the evening after work would be extremely difficult...

Flood

The op said

My cousin (who I'm very close to and grew up with) is getting married in July

As the op is very close to this family member its very fair to say they knew the wedding date long before this four months.

_Brian

QuinDixie wrote: »

But the warning must be justified. Do you understand.
If she pulled a sickie, how does the employer legally give her a warning.
There is no proof.

Your wrong on this.
I've studied employment law, it was a substantial constituent of my people management degree. In addition on more than one occasion I've actually given written warnings for this exact situation. One was appealed and upheld.

Employees indeed have a good degree of protection but so do employers. The EAT is not the push over that employees seem to think.

noway12345

I can't believe there's any debate over this. Going to a family wedding where you'll have memories that will last you a life time v another boring day working with a sh1ty manager.
Your manager is being an ass, take the day off sick. In fact I'd advice you to take the whole week off sick so they can't accuse you of faking illness to go to the wedding.

dulpit

I'm surprised at the attitude of some people in this thread. It's a close family member's wedding. To say that they should skip the ceremony (you know, the actual wedding part) and work, and be okay with that, is ridiculous.

Having said that, I disagree with taking sick leave, would paint you in an awful light in your job.

Where I work, we always approve wedding leave, that & funerals are the 2 sacrosanct reasons why somebody can have time off, no quibbles. And we have blanket periods where holidays are usually not allowed.

My suggestion to the OP is this:

1. Go back to the manager, and see if you can cover the work on a different day (e.g. work a Saturday, stay late a few evening). This may not be possible though, depending on the job role the OP has.
2. Go back to the manager and ask them to reconsider (you might get lucky).
3. Go to HR or a higher level manager. While there may be 1 or 2 awful people within a company, I'd be surprised if everyone in the company would be so cold hearted. Sometimes mid-level managers go beyond what is reasonable, and the high-level management won't know about this until they are made aware.

All-in-all it's an awful situation for the OP, hope you get it sorted.

truedoom

In my workplace, if I disagree with my manager, i can go directly to their manager and try to get it rectified. They have an open door policy.

Anything like that available in your place?

Larbre34

1) Dont mention the date in work again, she is likely to have forgotten it by the time it comes around so anything she moans about will have no proof

2) Sick cert for the whole week, you need time to get a haircut, wash the car, buy a present, polish the shoes etc

3)Monitor the auld social media exposure at the wedding, limit your privacy to exclude anyone from work, and remove those darned tags

4) Enjoy the day!

daUbiq

Find a new job.

It's not ideal but a lot of employers/managers take their staff for granted. I've worked with good and bad managers so I'd make a point of complaining to HR about this managers poor management skills as you leave the company. I've done it, you can then get a reference from HR.

FindersKeepers

Offer to come in early and stay late in the lead up to the day to make up the hours. Not sure if this is a possibility in your line of work but it could be an option.

She sounds like she has her mind made up, I wouldnt mention it again, leave her to it and maybe she will change her mind nearer the time but for now she has a job to do as a manager and if she doesnt have her staff required for that day it affects her also.

Would a half day be an option, skip the ceremony and head straight to the party!

Good Luck OP.

BTW - I wouldnt call in sick either especially after speaking to her twice about it!

Tomagotchye

Find a new job is an extreme. For all we know OP loves their position and this is the first problem they've had. The job market isn't exactly flush either so it if it's something a little niche then they might have a hard time waiting for another one.

Sometimes I wonder if people recommend finding a new job because it's something they believe they themselves would do - when push comes to shove though it's not fair to push that idea without facts.

OP just go back to the manager and stress how important this is to you. If they have any wiggle room they'll surely use it. If not ask if somebody can cover for you. If not that request a half day and make the majority of the wedding. Ultimately those are your realistic options. Pulling a "sickie" is another but I won't recommend that.

I'm very surprised you had such little advance notice of a rough time frame for this wedding. I've only been invited to two and they've been planned a hell of a long time more than four months. Even if you just knew July you could have sent out a feeler request early: "Boss, I have a wedding coming up in July - Just to let you know I might need a little flexibility around then. I'll keep you posted on the actual day as soon as I know it and I'll get somebody in to cover."

It is a rough deal and I do hope OP works something out but I do urge caution because this situation is all about tact and not about blindly going down roads you can't come back from. I'm no expert but managers are human too and I'm sure if there is something they can do, they will. Might be naive but I want to live in that world.

Endthescam

Nobody should have that sort of power over you.

Terrlock

I would not take sickie, I would however tell the manager that I'm taking the day off regardless of weather it's approved or not.

It's too important of a family event not to be there and it's important for any workplace environment to have a good work life balance.

If she is not willing to approve then simply go above her head as it sounds like she is not able to think out side of the box and resolve these issues.

4 month's notice is plenty of time for any workplace to plan for.

How would you take 2 weeks off in that place?

omega666

Sounds like a piss poor manager or a piss poor company to work for to me.
Instead of a flat refusal the manager should be trying to find a solution to accommodate the OP as it obviously important to them.

Stuff like this creates a bad working atmosphere and turns employee’s against the company. It makes them think the company doesn’t give a **** about them so why should they give a **** about the company.

If i was the OP i would go above the managers head.

QuinDixie

_Brian wrote: »

Your wrong on this.
I've studied employment law, it was a substantial constituent of my people management degree. In addition on more than one occasion I've actually given written warnings for this exact situation. One was appealed and upheld.

Employees indeed have a good degree of protection but so do employers. The EAT is not the push over that employees seem to think.

Can you stick up material/links to back up your claims.

Carlos Orange

_Brian wrote: »

In addition on more than one occasion I've actually given written warnings for this exact situation. One was appealed and upheld.

What standard of proof is required? Is it just balance of probabilities or something higher?