Refused a day off to attend family wedding. **Mod warning post 1**

QuinDixie

_Brian wrote: »

You just can't refuse a written warning and then it goes away.
I've had employees say I'm refusing this. But then it's just countersigned by another manager in the presence of the worker and put on the file anyway. Otherwise no one would ever get a warning.

The lack of knowledge of a standard discipline process among many workers is amazing

In the op scenario.
If the op pulls a sickie for the wedding, she only needs a doctor cert if she is out for more than 3 days. She wont be.
If offered a written warning, she refuses it, it does not count towards the disciplinary process if she refuses it.
How could it, would not stand up in court or at a tribunal.

ladyella

Not that it helps your situation but my husband got a warning fo taking a day off when I went into labour and had our son and he had to fight for his weeks honeymoon time, he got this but also had to attend a meeting over it.
Some employers are just dicks. They're aware they've no obligation to grant leave days and have no problem in doing so. We're all just numbers at the end of the day

bottlebrush

Would taking a half day be an option, depending on the location, time of wedding obviously?

zzfh

murraychrisg wrote: »

Or just totally mind ###k your manager and be all like" thanks again for the time off, my family are delighted I can make it... And it's all cause of you"
And just convince the manager that she ok'd it with you!!!!!

you could try giving her a kick up the arse to go along with this..

_Brian

QuinDixie wrote: »

The op is looking for options - give her some.

In fairness if you read. My earlier posts I did just that.

_Brian

QuinDixie wrote: »

In the op scenario.
If the op pulls a sickie for the wedding, she only needs a doctor cert if she is out for more than 3 days. She wont be.
If offered a written warning, she refuses it, it does not count towards the disciplinary process if she refuses it.
How could it, would not stand up in court or at a tribunal.

This is so far from reality it's not funny.
When an employee refuses to accept a warning it still goes on their file. They can appeal the warning but unless an appeal is successful them it remains in place. And most likely the employee will be placed on a PIP which will need to be followed too.

You can't just walk away from a warning because you don't think it's warranted.

webpal

If you ring in sick you also may face the wrath of your colleagues who have to do your work. Your manager might give you a b0llicking but you will lose respect with your peers, this, in my opinion is worse.

What you need to do is sort this out yourself and go to your manager with the solution. Talk to your colleagues, let them know your situation, see if someone can cover. can you work time up? (I assume not) Could you come in early and leave early? If you can sort this out yourself not only will you have achieved a great sense of pride but you will have shown your initiative and problem solving skills. I do a lot of competency based interviews and this is a perfect example of what I would look for as an example.

Other posters are right, you are legally entitled to your holidays but as and when you can take them is at your managers discretion. They don't even have to give any further thought, as far as they're concerned you're working, end of. Talk to as many colleagues as you can, people will offer and you should have adequate time still to train them in if required. Tell them you'll have your phone on you for emergencies if need be, chances are they won't even ring you. Keep us posted.

Cyrus

QuinDixie wrote: »

In the op scenario.
If the op pulls a sickie for the wedding, she only needs a doctor cert if she is out for more than 3 days. She wont be.
If offered a written warning, she refuses it, it does not count towards the disciplinary process if she refuses it.
How could it, would not stand up in court or at a tribunal.

This is nonsense and awful advice

QuinDixie

_Brian wrote: »

In fairness if you read. My earlier posts I did just that.

She should ask other workers who have booked a holiday to switch.
Pass the buck form of manager.
:pac:

webpal

_Brian wrote: »

This is so far from reality it's not funny.
When an employee refuses to accept a warning it still goes on their file. They can appeal the warning but unless an appeal is successful them it remains in place. And most likely the employee will be placed on a PIP which will need to be followed too.

You can't just walk away from a warning because you don't think it's warranted.

Agree with Brian on this. You also may have a clause in your contract which means you won't get bonuses, pay rises etc if you're on a warning.

QuinDixie

_Brian wrote: »

This is so far from reality it's not funny.
When an employee refuses to accept a warning it still goes on their file. They can appeal the warning but unless an appeal is successful them it remains in place. And most likely the employee will be placed on a PIP which will need to be followed too.

You can't just walk away from a warning because you don't think it's warranted.

Read this slowly,
Yes you can, employees in Ireland have great protection.
or employers could use unfair warnings to remove any staff they like.

QuinDixie

Cyrus wrote: »

This is nonsense and awful advice

what is it to you, I am only telling her the truth.

BreadnBuddha

Life's too short to be worrying about this kind of bobwhite.

If you do a good job and the only thing stopping you doing something that's genuinely important to you is an inflexible manager or policy, to hell with it.

If that's your situation, don't bring it up again. Go sick and do so for a few days, maybe even for the whole week. Speak with the GP, tell them you're under a lot of pressure in work and that you've tried to take annual leave to attend to come personal matters but your request has been denied by an unsupportive and process driven manager. If your GP knows where you work, they'll know what you're dealing with.

You're under no obligation to disclose why you were out of work as long as you have a doctors cert stating a return date and your employer has no right to ask what you did or didn't do.

Many will say this is terrible advice. It's not. If you're a good employee and they don't value you enough to have at least tried to get you the day off, feck them.

kala85

_Brian wrote: »

Of Course they can.

Taking a sick day after being refused annual leave is grounds for a written warning. I've given same for this exact reason.

How is this. Where are you getting this information from.

BreadnBuddha

QuinDixie wrote: »

Read this slowly,
Yes you can, employees in Ireland have great protection.
or employers could use unfair warnings to remove any staff they like.

On the money.

QuinDixie

webpal wrote: »

Agree with Brian on this. You also may have a clause in your contract which means you won't get bonuses, pay rises etc if you're on a warning.

But the warning must be justified. Do you understand.
If she pulled a sickie, how does the employer legally give her a warning.
There is no proof.

Whatsdastory

eh simple solution

ring in sick

no more posts please

Tobyglen

Your manager is being ridiculous. 4 months for a day off is more than adequate especially when you mention that there is cover and it's a family wedding.

Sometimes you get bad apples, if you have a skilled job then start looking, you shouldn't take this nonsense because it will in all likelihood get worse. There's more important things in life than dealing with assholes.

webpal

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

You're under no obligation to disclose why you were out of work as long as you have a doctors cert stating a return date and your employer has no right to ask what you did or didn't do

Not entirely, sick leave is benefit rather than a right. The terms of it may and in a lot of cases do require you to disclose what was wrong.

webpal

QuinDixie wrote: »

But the warning must be justified. Do you understand.
If she pulled a sickie, how does the employer legally give her a warning.
There is no proof.

Because she's not legally entitled to sick leave. If we were we'd all be out sick every day!

Cyrus

QuinDixie wrote: »

But the warning must be justified. Do you understand.
If she pulled a sickie, how does the employer legally give her a warning.
There is no proof.

You seem to be assuming that this will end up at some hearing somewhere , if someone gets a warning they get a warning and whatever sanctions go with it .

They can say they refuse it if they want, but I'd imagine it won't be long before they find themselves out of a job.

byhookorbycrook

Tobyglen wrote: »

Your manager is being ridiculous. 4 months for a day off is more than adequate especially when you mention that there is cover and it's a family wedding.

As a public sector worker, we are NOT entitled for leave for a cousin's wedding, so why should a private sector be any different?

QuinDixie

webpal wrote: »

Because she's not legally entitled to sick leave. If we were we'd all be out sick every day!

she does not care about sick leave.
She pulls a sickie and than says she will take it as a holiday or unpaid.
she goes to wedding, has a great time and there is **** all her employers can do about it.

BreadnBuddha

webpal wrote: »

Not entirely, sick leave is benefit rather than a right. The terms of it may and in a lot of cases do require you to disclose what was wrong.

Absolutely incorrect.

All the employer is entitled to is a medical cert stating that the employee is fit to resume their work.

Long term illness benefits may require consultation with a company appointed doctor, but not the case for short term sick leave.

Entitlement to company pay during absent days is another matter entirely and depends on duration of outage and company policy.

QuinDixie

Cyrus wrote: »

You seem to be assuming that this will end up at some hearing somewhere , if someone gets a warning they get a warning and whatever sanctions go with it .

They can say they refuse it if they want, but I'd imagine it won't be long before they find themselves out of a job.

It will end up at a hearing if an employer lets go an employee without valid reasons and after following proper guidelines.
It is called unfair, constructive or wrongful dismissal.
It is the law.

webpal

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Absolutely incorrect.

All the employer is entitled to is a medical cert stating that the employee is fit to resume their work.

Long term illness benefits may require consultation with a company appointed doctor, but not the case for short term sick leave.

Entitlement to company pay during absent days is another matter entirely and depends on duration of outage and company policy.

nope, I signed a contract, which has numerous sick leave clauses and this is one. So like I said it depends, it's not incorrect, it's advice.

QuinDixie

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

As a public sector worker, we are NOT entitled for leave for a cousin's wedding, so why should a private sector be any different?

What part of the public sector

BreadnBuddha

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

As a public sector worker, we are NOT entitled for leave for a cousin's wedding, so why should a private sector be any different?

There's a whole other can of worms. I worked for years in the public sector. I enjoyed flexi-time, higher pay, job security, regular office hours, guaranteed time off on public holidays, incremental payrises and a host of other benefits.

In the private sector, none of those things were afforded to people doing the same basic job. Lower level private sector employees have had it rough for a hell of a lot longer and in the majority of roles, without the 'benefit' of unionised and organised representation.

You can take that chip off your shoulder and give it to any one of the tens of thousands of hardworking private sector employees who have to do battle with managers trained in the Americanised corporate sector. Managers who can't or often simply won't extend themselves enough to accommodate an employee they see as little more than a 'worker', as _Brian so disrespectfully labels them. Employees, team members, colleagues and coworkers. All better terms to convey even a basic level of respect, but apparently not suitable for this discussion.

byhookorbycrook

QuinDixie wrote: »

What part of the public sector

Teaching.

byhookorbycrook

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

There's a whole other can of worms. I worked for years in the public sector. I enjoyed flexi-time, higher pay, job security,

Not a primary teacher then.