Refused a day off to attend family wedding. **Mod warning post 1**

LegacyUser

Hi, I'm just looking for some advice/opinions about a situation at work.

I work in a fairly big and well-known company, but obviously will not mention the name or the nature of the company. I've been employed there for well over a year - and in that time have only missed one day due to being sick.

My cousin (who I'm very close to and grew up with) is getting married in July. I approached my Manager early last month to ask for a days annual leave in order to attend the wedding (this was giving almost 4 months notice). She looked at the book and told me that the day wasn't available (The two people that are off that day work in other sections, and are not involved in my job at all).

I was absolutely shocked at this as I believed that no Employer would refuse to allow a person to attend an important family event. Anyway, I asked if there was anything at all that could be done considering that it's a family wedding, and she told me to leave it with her. I fully believed that when she thought about it - she'd give me the day off. But I approached her again yesterday and she gave me the same answer saying that the day wasn't free and that I should have asked for the day off when the annual leave was being planned. The annual leave was planned back in November and I was not aware of the wedding at that time.

After hearing my Manager's response, I said 'I hope you won't mind me saying this, but this seems really unreasonable..'' I added that the first time I approached her was almost 4 months in advance of the wedding and it seems really unfair that something couldn't be figured out in that amount of time. I also said that most people are not aware of a wedding invitation until 6 weeks before the wedding and my notification was far in excess of this.. She didn't make any response to this and stared blankly at me.

I am in total disbelief at this. I had been looking forward to the wedding as a lot of relatives will be returning from abroad. What makes it worse is that the wedding is outside Dublin so transportation to the venue late in the evening after work would be extremely difficult..

To be honest, I feel that my Manager is being incredibly unreasonable and simply didn't want to give me the day off (I know this sounds crazy!) There are two other people who can do my job - and they are both scheduled to work that day so it's not like my job would be left undone..

I'm just looking for other opinions - would you feel this was unfair if you were in this situation or am I the one being totally unreasonable and should I just accept my manager's view that the day is not available and therefore have to work?

Thanks so much in advance, and sorry for rambling on!

//MOD

I've just had to spend the last 20 min deleting over half the replies since I reopened the thread because people can't adhere to basic boards policies; since it appears to be that hard let me clarify the rules for you:
1) Help the OP
2) Don't go name calling the manager
3) Don't drag the thread off topic

Do any of the above and you'll be looking at a 3 day or longer ban going forward.

//MOD

Whiplashy

Your manager is under no obligation to give you the day off, although most managers would try to accommodate a request when they're given so much notice. Is it during a particularly busy time where your absence would put others under too much pressure? Is there a possibility of swapping a day with someone else? If you genuinely feel like your absence wouldn't be an issue I'd give it one more try. If the answer's still no you'll just have to put up with it.

For future reference you might want to put in your requests as soon as you know the date. I also have a close cousins wedding in July. I have the day booked off since last October!

Irish_Elect_Eng

I cannot comment on your managers behavior, I don't have enough information. But in my experience most managers would try to accommodate such a request. I would not advise the "You're being unreasonable approach..." if they are they are unlikely to be the sort of manager to be "persuaded"

I would advise going to your manager offering a solution to the problem...

My Suggestion:

(1) Speak with your colleagues that would have to take up the slack on that day, ask them would your absence impact them and in what way. If they have no problem with your absence then great. If there are specific issues then you can plan to deal with them. Talk about Team-Work.

(2) Review your work for that day, any of your work that can be done in advance you should plan to complete it the day before. For example would a couple of additional hours the day before take care of a chunk of your work. Make a list of the tasks that you would normally do and hoe they will be addressed on that day. If colleagues have volunteered to cover particular tasks give them credit and praise for their team-spirit. Talk about the day in terms of tasks and responsibilities and their reassignment.

(3) Is there anybody from another area of the company that could fill in? Or would this be a development opportunity for a junior staff member? You could train them up to cover for you and they would probably be grateful for the mentor-ship. Talk about development opportunities.

(4) You could involve your boss in this planning, ask her how she plans for an absence of one of your team in your role, for example how does she deal with any unforeseen absences and could your planned absence be dealt with in this way, without inconveniencing the business as you can mitigate the absence with appropriate planning with your boss. Talk about resolving your need for the day off with the needs for the business in partnership.

Once you have a plan in place, present it to your boss and ask for her to reconsider your request.

Best of luck.

_Brian

Yo could speak to the other guys who have the day booked off and see if they can drop the AL, sometimes people have days off they they can do without.

When I managed shift workers they were given to option to ask a friend on the other shift to cover if it didnt impact that shift's cover.

In fairness to your manager in most organisations there is a "first come first served" rule for AL requests. Combine this with a strict minimum headcount required and there is really very little can be done.. Often starting to make exceptions is the thin edge of the wedge so many just hold firm.

But, when it comes down to it you could be on a looser..

If you decide to ask about hos your manager manages when people call in sick, as advised above, its a sensible conversation, but, make sure it doesn't come across as a veiled threat "give me the AL or I'll be sick that day" sort of thing, that could open a whole can of whip-ass !!

I've been they guy saying no to these requests and it aint any fun, the advice above of bringing a solution to the conversation is good, better than saying "I think your being unreasonable". Good luck.. and remember, this wedding is one day, you'll still have the evening to go, I wouldn't see it worth getting in your managers face too much !!

Panda_Turtle

Some managers get a genuine thrill out of making people suffer, perhaps she is one of those. You just got to wait it out in the hope of getting a new manager or get a new job.

_Brian

Panda_Turtle wrote: »

Some managers get a genuine thrill out of making people suffer, perhaps she is one of those. You just got to wait it out in the hope of getting a new manager or get a new job.

I don't particularly agree that these managers exist, and if they do it must be rare..

Now in my opinion managers will go the extra mile for employees who are outstanding at their jobs and are ever helpful. While for stroppy poorly performing employees who are always a pain - managers will rarely put themselves out for this grade of employee as there is no return from the effort or risk - yet its this same employee that consistently dishes the manager saying they are just mean and spiteful.. More often than people would like to accept, in the workplace you get back what you put in..

liam7831

Say no more about it, just call in sick that day. They cant do anything about it

cml387

liam7831 wrote: »

Say no more about it, just call in sick that day. They cant do anything about it

Don't do this.

W1ll1s

I think your request is quite reasonable, unfortunately this sort of attitude is becoming more prevalent...

_Brian

liam7831 wrote: »

Say no more about it, just call in sick that day. They cant do anything about it

Of Course they can.

Taking a sick day after being refused annual leave is grounds for a written warning. I've given same for this exact reason.

Endthescam

I'd look for another job.

shamrock55

If i was you mate id leave that job,im not joking either life is too short for putting up with that kind of ****

Mongfinder General

cml387 wrote: »

Don't do this.

Do do this. Fcuk all they can do about it. Sounds like that manager is not going to do you any favours whether you show our not.

anncoates

liam7831 wrote: »

Say no more about it, just call in sick that day. They cant do anything about it

Yeah, how would they ever guess that one.

QuinDixie

_Brian wrote: »

Of Course they can.

Taking a sick day after being refused annual leave is grounds for a written warning. I've given same for this exact reason.

It is not a valid reason, The worker refuses the warning, you could not make him take it.

murraychrisg

Or just totally mind ###k your manager and be all like" thanks again for the time off, my family are delighted I can make it... And it's all cause of you"
And just convince the manager that she ok'd it with you!!!!!

Ted_YNWA

They are under no obligation to give you the day. Work still needs to be done. Two people have already booked it off.

I assume that there is a minimum headcount needed to perform it.

Have you asked one of the others who have it booked can you swap.

_Brian

This **** everybody attitude is why people end up at the bottom of the scrap heap employment wise.

Running round with a chip on their shoulder with a sense of entitlement to everything.

I said before, in workplaces you get back what you out in. Employees who go round with the **** everybody attitude get nothing - because that's what they deserve.

OP has lots of options but why would they be encouraged to do the exact thing that will most likely damage their employment reputation.

People who say nothing can be done haven't a clue what their talking about.

Bpd or bipolar?

She sounds like a egotistical bitch! Call in sick and deal with the consequences after the wedding

SCOOP 64

At least now you know not too ask for a day off, just go sick in future.

ziedth

liam7831 wrote: »

Say no more about it, just call in sick that day. They cant do anything about it

I've seen people sacked for doing this. To be honest id be absolutely livid In your position OP.

Mongfinder General

_Brian wrote: »

This **** everybody attitude is why people end up at the bottom of the scrap heap employment wise.

Running round with a chip on their shoulder with a sense of entitlement to everything.

I said before, in workplaces you get back what you out in. Employees who go round with the **** everybody attitude get nothing - because that's what they deserve.

OP has lots of options but why would they be encouraged to do the exact thing that will most likely damage their employment reputation.

People who say nothing can be done haven't a clue what their talking about.

Nonsense. I've seen wasters being promoted way above their competence level while others being left to rot because they didn't agree with their bosses approach. Yes men lackies get back ten fold what they put into it.

_Brian

QuinDixie wrote: »

It is not a valid reason, The worker refuses the warning, you could not make him take it.

You just can't refuse a written warning and then it goes away.
I've had employees say I'm refusing this. But then it's just countersigned by another manager in the presence of the worker and put on the file anyway. Otherwise no one would ever get a warning.

The lack of knowledge of a standard discipline process among many workers is amazing

dr.bollocko

from my POV a manager should do everything they can to accommodate this type of request.

Greenmachine

It might feel like the manager is being a jerk. But don't do anything to jeopordise your job. Some of the other posters have posted some excellent suggestion. I think providing a solution and finding out how your colleague will be effected by your absence.

Tomagotchye

Is everyone's go to thing just to "call in sick?" Honestly, I've never done it in my life and I can't envision I ever will...surely that would be massively obvious if OP was sick on that day after being denied the request prior. Surely they'd never respect your word again? If I was a manager and somebody pulled that with me they'd get nothing out of me again.

_Brian

dr.bollocko wrote: »

from my POV a manager should do everything they can to accommodate this type of request.

I would agree. For a good employee managers would try and work something or make suggestions on how the employee could help get cover.
But for the "**** everyone" brigade , why would you bother !

QuinDixie

_Brian wrote: »

This **** everybody attitude is why people end up at the bottom of the scrap heap employment wise.

Running round with a chip on their shoulder with a sense of entitlement to everything.

I said before, in workplaces you get back what you out in. Employees who go round with the **** everybody attitude get nothing - because that's what they deserve.

OP has lots of options but why would they be encouraged to do the exact thing that will most likely damage their employment reputation.

People who say nothing can be done haven't a clue what their talking about.

The op is looking for options - give her some.

bottlebrush

What would happen if you got the day off, along with the other two people who are off, then somebody else called in sick that day. If this happened, there could be consequences for the Manager, would there not, for allowing more than the staff complement away on holidays at the same time.

Kirk Van Houten

_Brian wrote:

Taking a sick day after being refused annual leave is grounds for a written warning. I've given same for this exact reason.

_Brian wrote:

Of Course they can.

Exactly this. At a guess those who are offering advice thats its either unreasonable or just to take the day havent any experience of managing staff.
if you just take the day you'll possibly end up with a written warning and can pretty much write off any chance of progression for a long while.
As others have said ask someone to swap the day with you or try to suggest ways to move your work around on the day to be covered off.
Saying its unreasonable or moaning about it wont do you any favours.

John_Rambo

I'm a manager and have this very issue at the moment. You know what I have to do?

Manage.

I'd talk to staff that have booked the day off, explain the situation see if they can accommodate, swap days etc... talk to clients, try and get work in early to soften the workload on the give day/days.

I work for an indigenous SME, I'm trusted to sort out the situation. Some middle management of large companies are sheeting themselves and can't really make decisions. They're not managing at all, just laying down the law. Payed mouthpieces I'm afraid, they're not managing, thinking on their feet, the're just doing what they're told to do.

You have no choice other than to go above you're direct "manager".

Don't sweat the aftermath, there won't be one. Hope it works out well.