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Allergic to Work

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    #152
    222233
    Registered Users Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    Mechanical Clocktail wrote: »
    Sorry but if you can't afford a smart phone then it doesn't sound like you pay much tax at all then, if you're on a low wage.

    I am on a good wage, I am paying back two separate loans from my time in college, accommodation costs, medical costs

    Do you realise how much it costs to do 6 years in 3rd level education with no assistance?


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    #153
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    ...so the accomodation is free since it's paid for with money that they didn't work for. Obviously I am not including people who have worked, paid their stamps and subsequently lost their jobs in this.

    I'm sure you have figures to backup this old chestnut ? What figures can you produce in relation to this cohort of never worked a day ?


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    #154
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    222233 wrote: »
    Not sure exactly what you mean by that, I don't get anything from the state, never have, but I do think I should be entitled to something in return for my taxes
    you essentially get safer streets becuase if SW payments were lowered, all the recipients would turn to crime....social protection money if you will


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    #155
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    mhge wrote: »
    With fewer claymants and increase in taxpayer numbers, they would be taxed less or receive better services in return for their tax.

    Forgive my cynicism but I very much doubt that. Look for example at the money that is thrown into the pit of healthcare in this country. Hundreds of millions of euro over budget every year and yet things are in decline. I don't for one second believe that if there were less claimants that services would improve elsewhere.


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    #156
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I'm sure you have figures to backup this old chestnut ? What figures can you produce in relation to this cohort of never worked a day ?
    well no...my point was that anyone who has never worked and is in living in state funded accommodation is getting...free accommodation, not that wild a statement really


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    #157
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Forgive my cynicism but I very much doubt that. Look for example at the money that is thrown into the pit of healthcare in this country. Hundreds of millions of euro over budget every year and yet things are in decline. I don't for one second believe that if there were less claimants that services would improve elsewhere.

    Could work in other countries, But the political elite here are the most self entitled not the ones on SW.


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    #158
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    well no...my point was that anyone who has never worked and is in living in state funded accommodation is getting...free accommodation, not that wild a statement really

    Kind of is though, How much sleep do people lose over TD's having free houses in Dublin for example if people are getting free houses ? If people have no figures it could be 1 or the population of the republic.


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    #159
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Forgive my cynicism but I very much doubt that. Look for example at the money that is thrown into the pit of healthcare in this country. Hundreds of millions of euro over budget every year and yet things are in decline. I don't for one second believe that if there were less claimants that services would improve elsewhere.

    If you're coming from the angle that this country is doomed and cannot be run properly there's no discussion to be had...
    Welfare bill is massive though and workforce is relatively small so rebalancing them would certainly be helpful. It's not about unemployment alone, you can check out in many ways. For many it may not even be conscious, simply inherited.


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    #160
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Genuine question, If SW was massively reduced tomorrow and all supports pretty much stopped do you expect people to lie down in the street and die ? Or commit crime to live ? And how would you pay for the rather huge increase in Crime. Jails court lawyers police they all cost money. As i said around 60k per year per person for jail.


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    #161
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    mhge wrote: »
    If you're coming from the angle that this country is doomed and cannot be run properly there's no discussion to be had...
    Welfare bill is massive though and workforce is relatively small so rebalancing them would certainly be helpful. It's not about unemployment alone, you can check out in many ways. For many it may not even be conscious, simply inherited.

    Name one country that has 100% employment ?


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    #162
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    mhge wrote: »
    If you're coming from the angle that this country is doomed and cannot be run properly there's no discussion to be had...
    Welfare bill is massive though and workforce is relatively small so rebalancing them would certainly be helpful. It's not about unemployment alone, you can check out in many ways. For many it may not even be conscious, simply inherited.

    You make the point regarding the welfare bill being massive. The majority if not all of it goes straight back into the Irish economy, it's not just vanished or disappeared, it's moving back around the Irish economy in a good way. It's not all doom.


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    #163
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Kind of is though, How much sleep do people lose over TD's having free houses in Dublin for example if people are getting free houses ? If people have no figures it could be 1 or the population of the republic.
    I'm not worried about i'm just refuting the idea that no one in the state gets free accommodation. Totally agree about TDs though, massively overpaid, outrageous entitlements (common feature of civil service) and their pension entitlements are obscene but there are only 166 of them at any one time, far more people living entirly off the state than that.


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    #164
    222233
    Registered Users Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Genuine question, If SW was massively reduced tomorrow and all supports pretty much stopped do you expect people to lie down in the street and die ? Or commit crime to live ? And how would you pay for the rather huge increase in Crime. Jails court lawyers police they all cost money. As i said around 60k per year per person for jail.

    If our tax was paying for proper health and education systems there would be no level of this crime.


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    #165
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Genuine question, If SW was massively reduced tomorrow and all supports pretty much stopped do you expect people to lie down in the street and die ? Or commit crime to live ? And how would you pay for the rather huge increase in Crime. Jails court lawyers police they all cost money. As i said around 60k per year per person for jail.

    I don't think anyone suggests stopping them overnight. Lifelong welfare option for able people is quite unusual though; there are countries with tapered welfare and little crime so it can be done.


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    #166
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    You make the point regarding the welfare bill being massive. The majority if not all of it goes straight back into the Irish economy, it's not just vanished or disappeared, it's moving back around the Irish economy in a good way. It's not all doom.

    Exactly people on SW generally spend 100% of what they get in the economy, People who work don't they save. How would People replace what about 20 bn ?


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    #167
    Stojkovic
    Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Stojkovic


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Name one country that has 100% employment ?
    North Korea ?


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    #168
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Stojkovic wrote: »
    North Korea ?

    Would you move there ? :pac:


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    #169
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    You make the point regarding the welfare bill being massive. The majority if not all of it goes straight back into the Irish economy, it's not just vanished or disappeared, it's moving back around the Irish economy in a good way. It's not all doom.

    Unless it's spent on imported goods or foreign owned retailers...


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    #170
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Exactly people on SW generally spend 100% of what they get in the economy, People who work don't they save. How would People replace what about 20 bn ?
    so if everyone went on SW the economy would be saved!


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    #171
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    so if everyone went on SW the economy would be saved!

    No that would be Ridiculous, Just like saying cutting the dole and removing 20 bn. 5% unemployment is about realistic like we had in the boom.


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    #172
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    mhge wrote: »
    Unless it's spent on imported goods or foreign owned retailers...

    Well if you buy something from a MNC the profits are routed back to Ireland. But little tax payed. :pac:


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    #173
    222233
    Registered Users Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    I personally think if they taxed drugs in this country we would all get everything we need!


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    #174
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Name one country that has 100% employment ?

    Who said anything about that?
    Ireland's jobless household rate is 23%, with EU average at 11%.


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    #175
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    222233 wrote: »
    I personally think if they taxed drugs in this country we would all get everything we need!

    Drugs prostitution crime are all included as part of the economy now are they not in the new EU calculations ?


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    #176
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    mhge wrote: »
    Unless it's spent on imported goods or foreign owned retailers...

    What, with the quantitative easing implemented recently on the Euro. No point in purchasing over-seas now with the euro devalued.


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    #177
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    mhge wrote: »
    Who said anything about that?
    Ireland's jobless household rate is 23%, with EU average at 11%.

    Really ? Thought the government said it was under 10%


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    #178
    222233
    Registered Users Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭222233


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Drugs prostitution crime are all included as part of the economy now are they not in the new EU calculations ?

    Don't know? I don't know that much about Europe, legislations anything really, I just have strong opinions.. :rolleyes:


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    #179
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    222233 wrote: »
    I personally think if they taxed drugs in this country we would all get everything we need!

    Well if the government legalised and taxed cannabis then it will go towards this countrys piggy-bank and will help us along some bit.


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    #180
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    222233 wrote: »
    Don't know? I don't know that much about Europe, legislations anything really, I just have strong opinions.. :rolleyes:

    Well they are.


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    #181
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Really ? Thought the government said it was under 10%

    Jobless does not equal unemployed though. High disability rates, long time lone parents all feed into it, and Irish rate is twice the average:
    http://files.nesc.ie/nesc_reports/en/137_Jobless_Households.pdf


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