Machinery Photo/Discussion Thread

kevthegaff

Can anyone explain what exactly is the vario transmission? I see new holland on dd cheaper when they have v

blue5000

kevthegaff wrote: »

Can anyone explain what exactly is the vario transmission? I see new holland on dd cheaper when they have v

Instead of gears with teeth the gearbox has variable speed pulleys and belts. One pulley squeezes together and the other pulley sides open out to change the speed of the output shaft. The belts wear, maybe that's why they're cheaper at high hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEq5_b4LWNY

_blaaz

kevthegaff wrote: »

Can anyone explain what exactly is the vario transmission? I see new holland on dd cheaper when they have v

Computer selects correct gear for you at all time....when you push throttle sends signal to gearbox and that adjusts engine rpm


(If its same gearbox im.thinking of)

Gawddawggonnit

blue5000 wrote: »

Instead of gears with teeth the gearbox has variable speed pulleys and belts. One pulley squeezes together and the other pulley sides open out to change the speed of the output shaft. The belts wear, maybe that's why they're cheaper at high hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEq5_b4LWNY

No!
No belts whatsoever Blue.

Hydrostatic motors, stepper motors etc.
I’ve a few vario box tractors here and won’t be changing to powershift again, ever.
If you buy well proven vario systems they’re a lot easier/cheaper to maintain than powershift boxes.
Tractor with 10+k hours gave vario box probs last week...broken wire! Box in perfect condition throughout.

Vario box is akin to the invention of power steering imho.

kevthegaff

Are they nicer to drive, why are they cheaper tractors?

Gawddawggonnit

kevthegaff wrote: »

Are they nicer to drive, why are they cheaper tractors?

Ever drive a tractor without power steering Kev? Same difference.

Some vario boxes are dogs. Constant bother and big repair bills.
There are other varios that are bulletproof. The trick is to buy one that’s well proven.
We’ve vario boxes from 160hp to over 400. The 160 is in a 6 series Deere and is certain to give trouble...long story as to why I bought it, but it has only 4.5k hours on it yet
The story on the NH varios is to stick to the 230+hp models on the more recent models (CHN manufactured varios) and stay away from smaller models. The older CNH varios were a Steyr designed ZF manufactured box and were generally bulletproof...Case CVX, Steyr CVT, NH TVT all have that box.
The older JD 7x20/30 were also a good box.
Fendt/Massey varios are dogs and too easily fcuked up by poor operators.

* I’ll get lambasted for taking the name of Fendt/Massey in vain, but plenty evidence to prove they’re dogs.

visatorro

Case CVX is meant to be a great yoke.
Fendt are alleged to be the dogs bollox but as dawg says poor operater will **** up anything.
Great comfort with anyway vario. It's a mix of automatic and hydrostatic.

Maybe rooster man might comment on how him and the old lad are getting on with their vario box.

Gawddawggonnit

visatorro wrote: »

Case CVX is meant to be a great yoke.
Fendt are alleged to be the dogs bollox but as dawg says poor operater will **** up anything.
Great comfort with anyway vario. It's a mix of automatic and hydrostatic.

Maybe rooster man might comment on how him and the old lad are getting on with their vario box.

I’ve had some beauties on the CVX/TVTs and no bother...caught an Irish lad in a field going from 40k forward to reverse at 40k and forward again etc to ‘demo’ to his buddy how ‘good’ vario is...first bit of bother on that box was last week and was only a broken wire, after 10+k hours.

* Irish lad had to hitch hike to the airport...

funkey_monkey

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’ve had some beauties on the CVX/TVTs and no bother...caught an Irish lad in a field going from 40k forward to reverse at 40k and forward again etc to ‘demo’ to his buddy how ‘good’ vario is...first bit of bother on that box was last week and was only a broken wire, after 10+k hours.

* Irish lad had to hitch hike to the airport...

What sort of checks do youse do before letting folk out to cultivate fields and drive around in tractors etc?

visatorro

Seen a lad demonstrate vario by slamming the lever backwards at full speed before alright. He didn't own the tractor either!

blue5000

Gawddawggonnit wrote:

No!
No belts whatsoever Blue.

Hydrostatic motors, stepper motors etc.
I’ve a few vario box tractors here and won’t be changing to powershift again, ever.
If you buy well proven vario systems they’re a lot easier/cheaper to maintain than powershift boxes.
Tractor with 10+k hours gave vario box probs last week...broken wire! Box in perfect condition throughout.

Vario box is akin to the invention of power steering imho.

My bad, sorry lads.

emaherx

blue5000 wrote: »

My bad, sorry lads.

I’m mortified for you, think you must be the first person to give out wrong information on Boards

Waffletraktor

funkey_monkey wrote: »

What sort of checks do youse do before letting folk out to cultivate fields and drive around in tractors etc?

Is a check really needed on someone not to thrash your equipment?

Waffletraktor

kevthegaff wrote: »

Are they nicer to drive, why are they cheaper tractors?

Think of them as the engine drives a hydraulic pump, which inturn drives the gearbox. Outside of heavy draft work vario is just easier to use and generally smoother.
Early models didn't have strong enough components and they do need better brakes as less engine braking or down shifting like a gearbox but isn't an issue if driven a little more sympatheticaly.
Once used to a vario you look at everything else with a view of disdain tbh.

zetecescort

visatorro wrote: »

Seen a lad demonstrate vario by slamming the lever backwards at full speed before alright. He didn't own the tractor either!

I read somewhere the Ford demonstrators did similar when showing the select-o-speed gearboxes on the 5000s in the 60s

Odelay

zetecescort wrote: »

I read somewhere the Ford demonstrators did similar when showing the select-o-speed gearboxes on the 5000s in the 60s

As I often say, just because you can do it, doesn’t mean you should do it.

kevthegaff

Is that the reason fendt is more economical with diesel

davidk1394

Let’s hope the rain stays away

visatorro

kevthegaff wrote: »

Is that the reason fendt is more economical with diesel

Hard to nail down a definite answer to that really with good engines etc.

Are you looking to upgrade?!

funkey_monkey

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Is a check really needed on someone not to thrash your equipment?

Well flicking from forward to reverse at speed would say that fella shouldn't even be let near a spade let alone a tractor.
I know quite a few townies who went out to Australia with **** all tractor driving knowledge and ended up doing things that they'd never get to do at home.

_blaaz

kevthegaff wrote: »

Is that the reason fendt is more economical with diesel

Its more to do with power to weight ratio imo

Waffletraktor

kevthegaff wrote: »

Is that the reason fendt is more economical with diesel

They stole a mark in the early 00's with the first to have fancy power management software to pull back revs when not needed(tms) but not anymore, have horrific engine issues that's kept hush hush. Ie most of the bigger modeled 900's from the last s4 series have had engine rebuilds at 4-5k hurs and is why Agco finally went back to Man away from cheaper Deutz units.

kevthegaff

visatorro wrote: »

kevthegaff wrote: »

Is that the reason fendt is more economical with diesel

Hard to nail down a definite answer to that really with good engines etc.

Are you looking to upgrade?!

Nah just curious

Muckit

davidk1394 wrote: »

Let’s hope the rain stays away

Do you up end the bales off the wrapper? Probably a great job if not getting to them for a few days and using the soft hands

davidk1394

Muckit wrote: »

Do you up end the bales off the wrapper? Probably a great job if not getting to them for a few days and using the soft hands

Yeah, I find it’s a good job. Drawing them in straight away aswell Incase this down pour comes. I find the soft hands great. You can handle bales a lot quicker than the standard bale grab. It’s great on the digger because you have the extra weight on the back

Waffletraktor

Waffletraktor wrote: »

They stole a mark in the early 00's with the first to have fancy power management software to pull back revs when not needed(tms) but not anymore, have horrific engine issues that's kept hush hush. Ie most of the bigger modeled 900's from the last s4 series have had engine rebuilds at 4-5k hurs and is why Agco finally went back to Man away from cheaper Deutz units.

On the above similar to Davek's issue on his deere powered claas our 210r(same series engine) has needed a turbo, but otherwise mostly reliable.
It's not unknown for Fendt 700 and 900(deutz powered) series owners of the last s3/4 ranges to be nudged to monitor engine oil use daily and once it reaches a threshold go in for 'upgrades'.
Our 620 is in for it's second engine rebuild/clutch packs(when case decide to pay for it) as dealer agreed it's down on power. The previous cummins pre adbue had the raw power to go at late teens rpm while adblue fiatpt engines need to be ran at 2100rpm to generate the same torque/power and got to the stage it'd stall before popping the trany to neutral at a certain load which it should do to protect it's self normally.

Waffletraktor

davidk1394 wrote: »

Yeah, I find it’s a good job. Drawing them in straight away aswell Incase this down pour comes. I find the soft hands great. You can handle bales a lot quicker than the standard bale grab. It’s great on the digger because you have the extra weight on the back

Fancy led lights on the digger so you can see better?

Nekarsulm

blue5000 wrote: »

Instead of gears with teeth the gearbox has variable speed pulleys and belts. One pulley squeezes together and the other pulley sides open out to change the speed of the output shaft. The belts wear, maybe that's why they're cheaper at high hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEq5_b4LWNY

Ford put exactly that type of continuously variable ratio transmission into their "automatic" gearbox Fiestas a few years ago..
A kind of woven steel belt running between two vario pulleys, all oil immersed.
Wasn't a great success.

selectamatic

The Toyota cvt box is of the same principle.

It has proven to be an exceptionally reliable and efficient transmission over the last number of years.

As of yet though I don't think any car/van/suv manufacturer has made a cvt that would be rated to tow over 2 tonne.

X6.430macman

Waffletraktor wrote:

On the above similar to Davek's issue on his deere powered claas our 210r(same series engine) has needed a turbo, but otherwise mostly reliable. It's not unknown for Fendt 700 and 900(deutz powered) series owners of the last s3/4 ranges to be nudged to monitor engine oil use daily and once it reaches a threshold go in for 'upgrades'. Our 620 is in for it's second engine rebuild/clutch packs(when case decide to pay for it) as dealer agreed it's down on power. The previous cummins pre adbue had the raw power to go at late teens rpm while adblue fiatpt engines need to be ran at 2100rpm to generate the same torque/power and got to the stage it'd stall before popping the trany to neutral at a certain load which it should do to protect it's self normally.

Yes I agree there, there's a Cummins 535 here and it's unbelievable to pull, the 550 isn't near the power of the 535.

While on the subject of cvt I've a stupid question... Is it possible to set all of them up the drive on the throttle alone. I drove a challenger 645D (Massey 8600??) that had a cvt and couldn't figure out how to set it up to drive that way, when coming down to a junction I would just pull it back manually... I know this probably isn't right as doing it abruptly makes a less than pleasant sound from the tranny