Machinery Photo/Discussion Thread

Reggie. · 22-02-2018 10:40am

The Nutty M wrote: »

The same. Alot of power hungry work is completed with tractors that are just above the minimum hp required. Agitating for instance 90-100hp agitator being driven by a 110-120hp tractor.
Mowing,10hp/ft general rule of thumb, 10ft6 540 rpm mower being driven by a 120hp tractor in 1000rpm PTO. Hit a hill or wirey crop and you'll bring it to a standstil,it doesn't have the back up in torque when its at half/two-thirds of engine revs.
Now put a 160-180hp tractor in front of it and it'll have enough grunt to pull it through.

I was told that the gearboxes in the new mowers only run on 1000rpm and a different gearbox has to go onto them for 540

blue5000 · 22-02-2018 10:54am

The Nutty M wrote: »

The same. Alot of power hungry work is completed with tractors that are just above the minimum hp required. Agitating for instance 90-100hp agitator being driven by a 110-120hp tractor.
Mowing,10hp/ft general rule of thumb, 10ft6 540 rpm mower being driven by a 120hp tractor in 1000rpm PTO. Hit a hill or wirey crop and you'll bring it to a standstil,it doesn't have the back up in torque when its at half/two-thirds of engine revs.
Now put a 160-180hp tractor in front of it and it'll have enough grunt to pull it through.

Another problem I've come across is tractors with lot's of engine power, but the back end/gear box isn't able for it. JD spring to mind. 140 hp engines in a tractor that has the same back end in a 110 hp tractor. Put it agitating slurry and it bursts the pto when a lump (of iron:eek:) goes through it.

It's hard to know which is better, a big engine in a lighter tractor, or vice versa. A happy medium is probably the best.

The Nutty M · 22-02-2018 11:22am

Reggie. wrote: »

I was told that the gearboxes in the new mowers only run on 1000rpm and a different gearbox has to go onto them for 540

Front ones are mainly 1000 with the option of direction,back mowers can have either. Two kv mowers for the man I work with,4328 with swarther and 4332 without a swarther have 2different gearboxes. There's no difference in either mower mowing.

visatorro · 22-02-2018 11:23am

Reggie. wrote: »

I was told that the gearboxes in the new mowers only run on 1000rpm and a different gearbox has to go onto them for 540

You'd have to specify with dealer what you intend running it on I'd imagine. You'd hear about lads running a fusion with 1000e on some of the newer Tractors. I would have thought that was fair going

Reggie. · 22-02-2018 11:37am

visatorro wrote: »

You'd have to specify with dealer what you intend running it on I'd imagine. You'd hear about lads running a fusion with 1000e on some of the newer Tractors. I would have thought that was fair going

I'm told that the 1000 was better as it's easier on the mower. Mowers come with them as standard I'm told but have to be specified with the 540

annubis · 22-02-2018 11:41am

Reggie. wrote: »

I'm told that the 1000 was better as it's easier on the mower. Mowers come with them as standard I'm told but have to be specified with the 540

my old taarup 4228 must be 10 yr old by now, was always told run it on 1000

Reggie. · 22-02-2018 12:08pm

annubis wrote: »

my old taarup 4228 must be 10 yr old by now, was always told run it on 1000

Yeah that's what the salesmen are all telling me.

cute geoge · 22-02-2018 12:17pm

I was looking at 8 and 9 foot krone/klev mowers and it stated on side to run at 540 rpm so you must be only talking about the conditioner mower that need the 1000 rpm

Nekarsulm · 22-02-2018 12:41pm

You can/could get most mowers with either gearbox. The bed gears will be designed to be doing the same speed , it's just that a 1000rev shaft is easier on the tractors components.

A friend has a Ford 8210 with a TW15 engine in it.
When he ran a 540 pto silage harvester or mower with it, the pto clutch pack in the tractor would last about 2 weeks.

Use a mower or harvester designed to be run with the 1000 shaft, and it never failed.

Reggie. · 22-02-2018 1:18pm

cute geoge wrote: »

I was looking at 8 and 9 foot krone/klev mowers and it stated on side to run at 540 rpm so you must be only talking about the conditioner mower that need the 1000 rpm

Were they mounted mowers? Im on about trailed

Reggie. · 22-02-2018 1:20pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

You can/could get most mowers with either gearbox. The bed gears will be designed to be doing the same speed , it's just that a 1000rev shaft is easier on the tractors components.

A friend has a Ford 8210 with a TW15 engine in it.
When he ran a 540 pto silage harvester or mower with it, the pto clutch pack in the tractor would last about 2 weeks.

Use a mower or harvester designed to be run with the 1000 shaft, and it never failed.

Now heres a stupid question. You still run the mowers with the pto shaft and pto with the 540 splines on not the 21 splines

kevthegaff · 22-02-2018 2:17pm

New rad on, dont see bubbles in water. Any other ways of checking damage?

Waffletraktor · 22-02-2018 2:21pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Nekarsulm wrote: »

You can/could get most mowers with either gearbox. The bed gears will be designed to be doing the same speed , it's just that a 1000rev shaft is easier on the tractors components.

A friend has a Ford 8210 with a TW15 engine in it.
When he ran a 540 pto silage harvester or mower with it, the pto clutch pack in the tractor would last about 2 weeks.

Use a mower or harvester designed to be run with the 1000 shaft, and it never failed.

Now heres a stupid question. You still run the mowers with the pto shaft and pto with the 540 splines on not the 21 splines

You can it just causes more wear as not meshed tight enough for extra speed.

Reggie. · 22-02-2018 2:27pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

You can it just causes more wear as not meshed tight enough for extra speed.

On the hardy Spicer ends like

Waffletraktor · 22-02-2018 2:36pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Waffletraktor wrote: »

You can it just causes more wear as not meshed tight enough for extra speed.

On the hardy Spicer ends like

Your on about running a 1000 speed pto, on 540 end on the shaft if so yes. You'd just wear it out a bit faster as it won't be meshed together tight enough. Know some contractors put all shafts on one end to save pricking about changing them

The Nutty M · 22-02-2018 2:45pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

..........Know some contractors put all shafts on one end to save pricking about changing them

I think nearly everyone is at that. Higher HP tractors have a 35mm shaft to as an extra instead of the 25mm one.

Nekarsulm · 22-02-2018 3:15pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Now heres a stupid question. You still run the mowers with the pto shaft and pto with the 540 splines on not the 21 splines

No, if he was running a 540 harvester with the 540 shaft in the Ford, the clutch pack was getting it tight.
When he changed harvester to a 1000 rev one, and had tbe 21 spline end in, it was easier on the tractors pto pack.

It didn't help that the TW15 engine was pushing out over 140hp through a back end and PTO designed for 98.

Reggie. · 22-02-2018 3:47pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Your on about running a 1000 speed pto, on 540 end on the shaft if so yes. You'd just wear it out a bit faster as it won't be meshed together tight enough. Know some contractors put all shafts on one end to save pricking about changing them

Why are the mowers sold with the 540 pro shafts then I wonder if they recommend running them at 1000

Nekarsulm · 22-02-2018 4:18pm

Some of the Kuhn with the swivel headstock had both, a 540 shaft coming out one side and a 1000 the other , so you could use either.

blue5000 · 22-02-2018 4:38pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

No, if he was running a 540 harvester with the 540 shaft in the Ford, the clutch pack was getting it tight.
When he changed harvester to a 1000 rev one, and had tbe 21 spline end in, it was easier on the tractors pto pack.

It didn't help that the TW15 engine was pushing out over 140hp through a back end and PTO designed for 98.

I reckon those back ends might have originally been designed for just 65hp:o

Gawddawggonnit · 22-02-2018 4:50pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Your on about running a 1000 speed pto, on 540 end on the shaft if so yes. You'd just wear it out a bit faster as it won't be meshed together tight enough. Know some contractors put all shafts on one end to save pricking about changing them

Every pto here is the 6spline 540 type whether its 540 machine or 1000.

1000rpm uses a lot less torque than 540.
Most mowers etc are all 1000 revs with years. Rakes etc which are low power/torque requirements are 540rmp.

Gawddawggonnit · 22-02-2018 4:56pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Why are the mowers sold with the 540 pro shafts then I wonder if they recommend running them at 1000

You always run them at 1000 Reggie.

It’s goes way back to when you had to change pto stub on the tractor...

Nowadays it’s a handle/button on the cab.

If you’ve plenty ponies there’s no bother running a 1000rpm mower (etc) on 1000eco.

Where some guys get into trouble is running the likes of baler combo units on 1000 box. Too much torque required when bale is near made...something goes bang eventually.

Gawddawggonnit · 22-02-2018 4:59pm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

No, if he was running a 540 harvester with the 540 shaft in the Ford, the clutch pack was getting it tight.
When he changed harvester to a 1000 rev one, and had tbe 21 spline end in, it was easier on the tractors pto pack.

It didn't help that the TW15 engine was pushing out over 140hp through a back end and PTO designed for 98.

Had an 8210 with a tw15 engine back in the day. 140hp out the back. No bother once you had a level headed individual behind the wheel....

Waffletraktor · 22-02-2018 7:40pm

Reggie. wrote: »

Why are the mowers sold with the 540 pro shafts then I wonder if they recommend running them at 1000

All that's needed to change your shaft end is knock out a roll pin and about an hours cursing and baeting and oiling.

Waffletraktor · 22-02-2018 7:53pm

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Every pto here is the 6spline 540 type whether its 540 machine or 1000.

1000rpm uses a lot less torque than 540.
Most mowers etc are all 1000 revs with years. Rakes etc which are low power/torque requirements are 540rmp.

I was always told to use a 1000 end as it hold everything together tighter and stops vibrations getting into the backend.

freedominacup · 22-02-2018 7:59pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

All that's needed to change your shaft end is knock out a roll pin and about an hours cursing and baeting and oiling.

So that's how you spell baeting. Always wondered. ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

Waffletraktor · 22-02-2018 8:12pm

freedominacup wrote: »

So that's how you spell baeting. Always wondered. &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;

Good for you.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 22-02-2018 9:12pm

freedominacup wrote: »

So that's how you spell baeting. Always wondered. &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;

Easier said than spelled.

Waffletraktor · 22-02-2018 9:26pm

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Easier said than spelled.

Less in the way of grammar and more emphasise the hardship involved. The end piece is tappered to hold the shaft tight which isn't really hard enough steel to be going belting with a sledge without burring and warping out of alignment.
Much easier to get the minions at it.

Gawddawggonnit · 22-02-2018 9:29pm

Waffletraktor wrote: »

I was always told to use a 1000 end as it hold everything together tighter and stops vibrations getting into the backend.

Haven’t found any difference. Absolutely everything here is on 540 shaft.

I did find wear on the 540 tractor stub from a big square baler alright, but you’d see that on a 21spline also.

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