Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

robopaddy2

Whats the story with the jersey numbers anyway?

Deskjockey

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Whats the story with the jersey numbers anyway?

They are using squad numbers since earlier in the year

Ropaire

Not sure Gleeson will be pushed up meself, Darragh Fives played a stormer in midfield vs Kilkenny about two years ago and I reckon he'll be played where he's named around the middle.

hurler on de ditch

Mountainlad wrote: »

Seriously doubt Waterford are going to line out 15 v 15 again under McGrath though I'd expect us to become gradually more positive. And to be honest, I think it's proper order too.

3-3-2-3-3 was the easiest, least complicated way to organize a team when the association was founded. To believe that this tactic unaltered over 125 years in a game that has developed too become vastly different to what it was from the outset is extremely naive. Think about it, hurleys are shorter more lightweight, the ball is lighter and travels further and faster. Scoring postions have changed, players are fitter and stronger etc. So when everything about the approach has pretty much changed, why is it assumed that 15 v 15 should be the ultimate tactical goal?

The key point should be that the tactic should be developed around the players at the teams disposal. Play to your strengthens, protect your weaknesses. I would say the management team have done the latter very well this year. I think they have also achieved some level of the former. There is scope for improvement and I think that's a given with any team, there's also the consideration that it's a young team and as players improve it wi be easier to adapt the tactic.

But, more has to be found if we expect to still be around at business end this year. It may be a case of September coming to soon, but I think there has to be some change on the field. Plenty of suggestions here, and some look to have a lot of merit. At the end of the day though the management teams knows better than anyone the tactics employed and the role each individual's plays so they will know best what effects the changes potentially will have. They haven't lost to date so there was no cause for change.

I wouldn't expect a drastic change but a positional switch could well be on the cards.

15 against 15 seems to suit KK ,and they have done alright by it

tomwaterford

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

15 against 15 seems to suit KK ,and they have done alright by it

For how much longer though??
(Serious question marks over some of there up and coming players skill levels..not commitment)

Also they played a sweeper againest tipp in the all Ireland last year.

hurler on de ditch

Deise_2012 wrote: »

He was very quiet after the Cork game, straight back on here after the munster final

that was a while back ,,thought i was a bit negative ,everyone else seemed to buy into this brand of hurling ,so i thought you cant argue with the results the team was getting ,then i thought ,now your not a sheep stop following the rest to the slaughter house ,,the brand of hurling is desperate really ,and what hurts more is the management have no will to change things ,even though ,when you are trailing in a munster final by 5 points or so heading into the last ten minutes ,although the match was decided with about 15mins to go ,anyway down 5 points and not one positive action or substitution ,NOTHING only leave it play out ,very disappointing altogether,yes i was delighted with the result against Cork and such was my optimism that i put a fiver (a lot of money for a non gambler )on Waterford to win, i dont like sheep and did not enjoy the last day at all,here's to a Deise win tomorrow although i would not spare another fiver,

hurler on de ditch

tomwaterford wrote: »

For how much longer though??
(Serious question marks over some of there up and coming players skill levels..not commitment)

Also they played a sweeper againest tipp in the all Ireland last year.

they have played in 60 finals now and won 35 ,roughly ,they are in a final once every two years ,oh and they played a sweeper in one of those ,although with my limited knowledge of the game i did not spot that ,and sure it would be like Cody to pick lads who would have serious question marks over their skill levels ,ffs

Mountainlad

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

15 against 15 seems to suit KK ,and they have done alright by it

I wonder if you looked how they lined out would you see a conventional 15 on 15. To my mind, after Lar Corbett roasted Hickey in 2010, Brian Hogan began to sit deeper and that the midfielders covered. They also dropped he half forward line. You can be sure Brian Cody is doing more than picking 15 players and throwing caution to the wind after that.

tomwaterford

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

they have played in 60 finals now and won 35 ,roughly ,they are in a final once every two years ,oh and they played a sweeper in one of those ,although with my limited knowledge of the game i did not spot that ,and sure it would be like Cody to pick lads who would have serious question marks over their skill levels ,ffs

He haven't the young players coming through to pick from though.....speak to anyone from kk who follow the underage setup and they'll tell you the same.....


They v.rarely play 15 v 15 nowadays....preferring to crowd midfield and half forward line....leaving large space between half and full forward line for players to run onto the ball
(This is how you so often see players running through from 30+ yards out and punishing opposition with goals)

See the space in front of there full forward line againest wexford??

Nothing wrong with this....just prefer to not see this myth that kk don't play tactics taking hold (If anything insulting to Cody)...


This Waterford team remind a lot of kk around 04-05 mark...in terms of ability..(I doubt they'll go on to dominate though)

hurler on de ditch

Mountainlad wrote: »

I wonder if you looked how they lined out would you see a conventional 15 on 15. To my mind, after Lar Corbett roasted Hickey in 2010, Brian Hogan began to sit deeper and that the midfielders covered. They also dropped he half forward line. You can be sure Brian Cody is doing more than picking 15 players and throwing caution to the wind after that.

as long as im watching them ,iv'e never seen them as negative as Waterford are these past few years ,the ball getting belted up to a one man forward line and coming back twice as fast ,when their is a hole in the boat ,its all the same how many men you have with buckets ,

Mulbert

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

15 against 15 seems to suit KK ,and they have done alright by it

What are you talking about. Kilkenny do tic tacs like all teams do. In the league relegation against clare this year, there were times when the ball arrived into a no man Kilkenny full forward line. They changed tactics to deny Cork the three in a row, they set there team as a game developed. Richie hogan was playing as centre back at times this year.

hurler on de ditch

Mulbert wrote: »

What are you talking about. Kilkenny do tic tacs like all teams do. In the league relegation against clare this year, there were times when the ball arrived into a no man Kilkenny full forward line. They changed tactics to deny Cork the three in a row, they set there team as a game developed. Richie hogan was playing as centre back at times this year.

your knowledge is unreal ,,Cody himself said ,there is nothing you can do once the ball is thrown in ,its 15 against 15 and if someone is not up to it on the day ,hopefully the lads(management)on the line will be able to see it and do something about it ,,Cody trusts his players from 1 to 15 ,the fact that someof them might drop back to win a ball is because of their undying commitment to the team ,,not because Cody decided he wanted to play a sweeper ,its simple really ,,he picks 15 men who he believes will win the game on any particular day and that includes 6 forwards who he knows given the right chance they will score ,unlike Waterford at the moment where he picks 6 backs he does not trust and employs at least another 4 or 5 lads to play there as well,that leaves at best 3 man half forward line and a 1 man full forward line,all are so wrecked when they get a chance from 40 or 50 yards they shoot for a point ,,ridiculous system from a manager who ultimately does not believe in his players

tomwaterford

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

your knowledge is unreal ,,Cody himself said ,there is nothing you can do once the ball is thrown in ,its 15 against 15 and if someone is not up to it on the day ,hopefully the lads(management)on the line will be able to see it and do something about it ,,Cody trusts his players from 1 to 15 ,the fact that someof them might drop back to win a ball is because of their undying commitment to the team ,,not because Cody decided he wanted to play a sweeper ,its simple really ,,he picks 15 men who he believes will win the game on any particular day and that includes 6 forwards who he knows given the right chance they will score ,unlike Waterford at the moment where he picks 6 backs he does not trust and employs at least another 4 or 5 lads to play there as well,that leaves at best 3 man half forward line and a 1 man full forward line,all are so wrecked when they get a chance from 40 or 50 yards they shoot for a point ,,ridiculous system from a manager who ultimately does not believe in his players

Codys lying(being modest)....while may be as rigid to a system as waterford

It is a tactic....how is it happens nearly every big game??

To say they don't have tactics is naive...usually tactics were once upon to deliberately target weakness in opposition....remember Seamus hickey all Ireland 07....something like 8 of the first 11 balls into the forwards landing into his corner??
Are you saying it wasn't pre planned...targeting of perceived weakness of regan in goal all Ireland semi 04
To give two samples.....there success is built on a savage work rate (see Waterford now) and pieces of individual brilliance (shefflin/Brennan etc always produced something special)

HatchetMan7

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

your knowledge is unreal ,,Cody himself said ,there is nothing you can do once the ball is thrown in ,its 15 against 15 and if someone is not up to it on the day ,hopefully the lads(management)on the line will be able to see it and do something about it ,,Cody trusts his players from 1 to 15 ,the fact that someof them might drop back to win a ball is because of their undying commitment to the team ,,not because Cody decided he wanted to play a sweeper ,its simple really ,,he picks 15 men who he believes will win the game on any particular day and that includes 6 forwards who he knows given the right chance they will score ,unlike Waterford at the moment where he picks 6 backs he does not trust and employs at least another 4 or 5 lads to play there as well,that leaves at best 3 man half forward line and a 1 man full forward line,all are so wrecked when they get a chance from 40 or 50 yards they shoot for a point ,,ridiculous system from a manager who ultimately does not believe in his players[/QUOTE

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"

The greatest trick Cody ever pulled was convincing the country he doesn't do tactics. The greatest manager in hurling history and people still think that Cody with his hurling brain doesn't have plans A, B, C and D. That's what tactics are different plans when plan A isn't working, not all tactics are defensive. But if Tipp played Kilkenny in the final and Tipp full forward line were causing havoc early, Cody usually gets his half back line to drop a little deeper to cut out the space in front of the full back line. Kilkenny have done that for years which is a tactic.

hurler on de ditch

tomwaterford wrote: »

Codys lying(being modest)....while may be as rigid to a system as waterford

It is a tactic....how is it happens nearly every big game??

To say they don't have tactics is naive...usually tactics were once upon to deliberately target weakness in opposition....remember Seamus hickey all Ireland 07....something like 8 of the first 11 balls into the forwards landing into his corner??
Are you saying it wasn't pre planned...targeting of perceived weakness of regan in goal all Ireland semi 04
To give two samples.....there success is built on a savage work rate (see Waterford now) and pieces of individual brilliance (shefflin/Brennan etc always produced something special)

says a lot about ya when you think KK success comes down to individual brilliance ,its a Team game,thats why KK have been more successful than most ,or dont ya get it ,

tomwaterford

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

says a lot about ya when you think KK success comes down to individual brilliance ,its a Team game,thats why KK have been more successful than most ,or dont ya get it ,

It is a team game...no one here said it wasn't

Have you ever heard the old soccer saying....match the workrate and class will shine through??


Do you think shefflins. And number other forwards brilliance had nothing to do with winning all there all Ireland's??

hurler on de ditch

tomwaterford wrote: »

It is a team game...no one here said it wasn't

Have you ever heard the old soccer saying....match the workrate and class will shine through??


Do you think shefflins. And number other forwards brilliance had nothing to do with winning all there all Ireland's??

ah your a soccer man ,,i get where your coming from now

tomwaterford

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

ah your a soccer man ,,i get where your coming from now

I'm not though....only ever watched on TV...never attended a soccer match if I'm honest :O


Though how is the phrase any less valid??
Do you not believe it to be ture??


I dislike this myth around kk that there somehow don't use tactics??
Or the love in rte commentators have of him he can't do any wrong

He doesn't put on subs when there running away with a match...they must earn their place in training

5 mins later same match starts bringing on subs...he's a great fella the game is over may run down the clock and see what's on the bench! :mad:

skaface

Best of luck to the Waterford team & Management tomorrow
UP THE DEISE :-) :-) :-)

seananigans

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

as long as im watching them ,iv'e never seen them as negative as Waterford are these past few years ,the ball getting belted up to a one man forward line and coming back twice as fast ,when their is a hole in the boat ,its all the same how many men you have with buckets ,

there not their

PTH2009 wrote: »

weather is going to play a factor in the match on sunday. It will suite Dublin as the rain will slow the game down and dublin play at a slower pace

suit not suite

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

ah your a soccer man ,,i get where your coming from now

you're not you're

seriously lads, you're representing your county here ,act like it ,speak English or nothing at all

Ropaire

seananigans wrote: »

there not their



suit not suite



you're not you're

seriously lads, you're representing your county here ,act like it ,speak English or nothing at all

Tá áthas orainn an corn seo a ghlacadh...

seananigans

Ropaire wrote: »

Tá áthas orainn an corn seo a ghlacadh...

na Mbíonn gaeilge agat usaíd é , nach mbíonn usaid bearla san slí ceart

3ships

Very good hurling team named. Will it start I don't know. There may be a surprise. I thought the late selection change for the Munster Final was a little too conservative. We were brave enough to go to Tipp's back yard so why not remain brave. The firewall was already put in months ago. Management will point to the fact that the sides were level when Eddie Barrett came off (and I like him but not as a Centre Forward when Brick is also up there). Chances were then missed and the common preconception prevailed.

I think tomorrow will be more adventurous, not 15 v 15, Jesus no, but still more attacking. In whatever configuration you can expect Gleeson, Dunford, Bennett, Moran, Barron and Fives (maybe the 2 of em) running directly at Dublin, that's a lot to hold. Maurice, Brick and Dillon should provide a good target for the direct alternative.

I thought the Munster Final was a proper intense affair albeit without enough scores from ourselves. The Dublin Limerick game the night before looked like a 1b league final. Nonetheless Dublin are boosted and we have lost a bit of certainty not so much from the Munster final but also the U-21 defeat.

The last time these sides met was in the relegation final of 2014. Waterford weren't able to beat them with 14 men for a second time that spring. What has changed, well 11 starters for a start. Of the 4 survivors from that XV none are in the same position. Waterford are really a different team.

Almost everyone in the media has tipped Waterford except for Martin Brehony who doesn't count. I didn't get the Ger Loughnane verdict I think he may have turned on us again, the b***h. We have been afforded a certain level of respect now which we need to prove tomorrow. I have reconciled with Thurles recently and I would like the opportunity to do so with Croke Park.

Dublin are an odd team who do well in odd years, Waterford are odds on and I think we'll get through it by the odd goal or 2.

KevIRL

Jesus, some weather

Tramore84

KevIRL wrote: »

Jesus, some weather

It's cat.

Deise_2012

at least we're the first game, pitch could be bad for the cork galway game. Any chance of it clearing up? What's the forecast like? Everyone still think the team will line out as planned?

PTH2009

Deise_2012 wrote: »

at least we're the first game, pitch could be bad for the cork galway game. Any chance of it clearing up? What's the forecast like? Everyone still think the team will line out as planned?

got the match programme via the ipad app and the waterford team is completely wrong. Tom Devine, Brian O Halloran and Stephen Bennett are all starting according to it

Cake Man

Really looking forward to the game. Hard to know how it'll go, I know most are tipping us and saying we have the better hurlers but that alone won't win us the match.
Hope the shooting improves as it wasn't great the last day. This is the first time this year the lads have gone into a game on the back of a defeat (2 if you include the disappointing u21 game) so it'll be interesting to see how the lads respond to that. Would be sickening to go out after such a great season so far. Heard the weather is awful so that'll probably play a part.

If the shooting tidies up and we manage to get good ball into Maurice, Bennetts, P. Curran when he gets on the field we should have enough to get us through. Haven't seen a huge amount if Dublin this or the last few years but I know they can blow hot and cold. They don't score too many goals either so this game could well be an all point affair.
If we go into the last ten mins a few points down I really hope to see caution thrown to the wind and push lads forward, unlike the u21 game last week.
It would be fantastic to get back to Croker and a crack off KK. Here's hoping that's how it pans out today.

The very of luck to all the lads involved today.

Come on the Déise

Tramore84

Cake Man wrote: »

Really looking forward to the game. Hard to know how it'll go, I know most are tipping us and saying we have the better hurlers but that alone won't win us the match.
Hope the shooting improves as it wasn't great the last day. This is the first time this year the lads have gone into a game on the back of a defeat (2 if you include the disappointing u21 game) so it'll be interesting to see how the lads respond to that. Would be sickening to go out after such a great season so far. Heard the weather is awful so that'll probably play a part.

If the shooting tidies up and we manage to get good ball into Maurice, Bennetts, P. Curran when he gets on the field we should have enough to get us through. Haven't seen a huge amount if Dublin this or the last few years but I know they can blow hot and cold. They don't score too many goals either so this game could well be an all point affair.
If we go into the last ten mins a few points down I really hope to see caution thrown to the wind and push lads forward, unlike the u21 game last week.
It would be fantastic to get back to Croker and a crack off KK. Here's hoping that's how it pans out today.

The very of luck to all the lads involved today.

Come on the Déise

Conditions much better in South Tipp on the way to the match, hopefully the heavy rain will stay away for the game.

enoughtaken

Tramore84 wrote: »

Conditions much better in South Tipp on the way to the match, hopefully the heavy rain will stay away for the game.

Lads. What are conditions like. Have it on the big screen here in Finland. Hopefully we'll shade this one and get a crack at the cats. Think Shane Bennett might have a massive game today.