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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Valid point
Only nine points from play in seventy minutes for waterford compared to tippeary thirteen show the problem with waterford system imo
No problem imo with system just needs tweaking here and there. If we had been more measured with our passing and shooting, it would have been closer. We'll always have doubters given our unorthodox system but after today, even though we lost, I believe even more so in this management and team!0 -
thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »Harnedy did not I repeat did not play championship v waterford for Cork like you said
Relax he never said he did, he was talking about the league final.0 -
HatchetMan7 wrote: »Relax he never said he did, he was talking about the league final.
Fair enough but he didn't say which game so understanding so you see my point
When ye naming team for Wednesday
I hope ye win0 -
It imo needs huge tweakingNo problem imo with system just needs tweaking here and there. If we had been more measured with our passing and shooting, it would have been closer. We'll always have doubters given our unorthodox system but after today, even though we lost, I believe even more so in this management and team!
This has not been a one off all league and now again ye scoring from plays is poor such the outstanding Jo-Anne cantwell asked McGrath after the game but he didn't really imo give answer say he acknowledge there was problem their0 -
I don't agree but I feel more support runners are needed and better execution in our delivery or shooting. I hope I'm right too. I believe this has a lot more to deliver. Over the years system will have to change as it's a young mans game at present. I think Derek realises that himself. We'll only truly know how far we've come this year if we can beat Dublin and play kk. Now i don't think we are quite good enough to topple them this year but I think we are going in the right direction.thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »It imo needs huge tweaking
This has not been a one off all league and now again ye scoring from plays is poor such the outstanding Jo-Anne cantwell asked McGrath after the game but he didn't really imo give answer say he acknowledge there was problem their0 -
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Incredible some of the doom and gloom here tonight! Yes we lost, but if a couple of those bad wides had gone over at the start of the 2nd half its a different game. Our backs were excellent but we dont have forwards of the quality of a Bubbles or Callanan yet, though Shan has been outstanding.
Really felt we missed Pauric Mahony today, we picked up alot of ball 60 yards out today where he could have made a huge difference, be it a clever pass or a possible score, his composure on the ball was really missed.
Hopefully we beat Dublin in 2 weeks, be great for this team to play KK, not sure we can beat them, just think they are that bit too physical at this point but it will be closer than people think and hopefully croker will bring the best out of this team, we are not gone yet!0 -
deisechap09 wrote: »Incredible some of the doom and gloom here tonight! Yes we lost, but if a couple of those bad wides had gone over at the start of the 2nd half its a different game. Our backs were excellent but we dont have forwards of the quality of a Bubbles or Callanan yet, though Shan has been outstanding.
Really felt we missed Pauric Mahony today, we picked up alot of ball 60 yards out today where he could have made a huge difference, be it a clever pass or a possible score, his composure on the ball was really missed.
Hopefully we beat Dublin in 2 weeks, be great for this team to play KK, not sure we can beat them, just think they are that bit too physical at this point but it will be closer than people think and hopefully croker will bring the best out of this team, we are not gone yet!
Fully agree with you on every point. We badly missed Pauric, I'm hoping the U21's win and gives team a boost and I think we'll have a one or two new forwards starting the next day out. Though of them were bad just i think players like Paddy Curran especially might add the little bit extra scoring prowess.0 -
He as good as played at full back today. Maybe that would be his best position. Reckon he could play anywhere in the back-line. The full back-line problem is being solved by creating a new one in the forward line. We wont score goals with 1 or 2 forwards in the full line if we meet Kilkenny. Should try Tadgh De Burca at full back against Dublin. Push more players into full forward line.Dick phelan wrote: »I'm sorry if there's one area and in fact one player who's been used correctly it's De Burca, Nothing wrong with the defense it's more solid then i'v ever seen it.0 -
Disapointing day Tipp were there for the taking. This defeat will hurt this team but we have to move on
Dublin in 2 weeks in the quarters, we may of got the so called easier draw but it will be hard and they will hold no fear of us. We're the 2pm game and Galway vs cork is 4pm in thurles or nowlan park.0 -
He as good as played at full back today. Maybe that would be his best position. Reckon he could play anywhere in the back-line. The full back-line problem is being solved by creating a new one in the forward line. We wont score goals with 1 or 2 forwards in the full line if we meet Kilkenny. Should try Tadgh De Burca at full back against Dublin. Push more players into full forward line.
So how would you have us line up then? I think in terms of the defense we really should take the attitude if it ain't broke don't fix it.0 -
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But the problem is that we are then short forwards. I would try Tadgh De Burca at full back. I would have a 3 man full forward line. I would pull out 3 half forwards more towards centre field.Dick phelan wrote: »So how would you have us line up then? I think in terms of the defense we really should take the attitude if it ain't broke don't fix it.
I would drop the two centre field players back somewhat. Then I would pull the half backs back somewhat. The full backline would have shield enough I reckon. I would play more direct ball. I would use less hand passing. I would use some ground hurling in the vicinity of the goals. I would drop the short pucks out. Caused 2 points against Tipperary. There should be less picking and poking when contesting the ball on the ground. Why is it players in many counties keep attempting to pick a ball in ruck situations. These rucks are ruining the game. Ground hurling has almost completely disappeared. Goalies are terrified of the good ground shot. Ground balls can beat the best of goalkeepers. Taking shots at goal from hopeless positions must stop. There must be more low ball going into the forwards. And of course we need a man running into position to take a pass from a player who is bottled up.
We need much more scoring power if we are to really make the big breakthrough.0 -
deisechap09 wrote: »Incredible some of the doom and gloom here tonight! Yes we lost, but if a couple of those bad wides had gone over at the start of the 2nd half its a different game. Our backs were excellent but we dont have forwards of the quality of a Bubbles or Callanan yet, though Shan has been outstanding.
Really felt we missed Pauric Mahony today, we picked up alot of ball 60 yards out today where he could have made a huge difference, be it a clever pass or a possible score, his composure on the ball was really missed.
Hopefully we beat Dublin in 2 weeks, be great for this team to play KK, not sure we can beat them, just think they are that bit too physical at this point but it will be closer than people think and hopefully croker will bring the best out of this team, we are not gone yet!
I think its more of a realisation that the system will ultimately only take us so far. Yesterday showed we will not win any AI Ireland playing that system that’s for sure. When you come against a team like Tipp or KK with real top quality forwards the system will eventually crack. We never got within an asses roar of a goal yesterday which was a big worry and if we end up in a semi against KK it will be much of the same as yesterday. Mind you I think it’s dangerous that people expect us to get over Dublin aswell. Reality bites don’t get me wrong theres still plenty to be positive about we are a team for the future but we need to evolve if we are to improve0 -
Dick phelan wrote: »I'm sorry if there's one area and in fact one player who's been used correctly it's De Burca, Nothing wrong with the defense it's more solid then i'v ever seen it.
The defence is always going to be solid with 4 in the fullback line and 4 in half backline. Problem is how do you beat a Tipp or KK with that setup. Im disappointed that we didnt go all out to win it in last 10 mins.......might have lost by more but who cares at that point.0 -
Unlucky yesterday lads. Limerick are out so now I stand full square behind The Decie.
Pick it up now and full steam ahead. This team are well capable of beating any of the remaining teams. The A I is there to be taken this year.
Up The deise!!!!!!!0 -
Anyone surprised by the selection of Eddie Barrett?0
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Have never heard such utter bull**** in my life as what has come out on here and media in last 24 hours. The Waterford system worked yesterday, we didn't win the game but it worked. It is designed at keeping the opposition to a scoreline that gives us a chance of outscoring them and by limiting Tipp to 21 points we did that. Simple fact is we missed at least three or four tap over points, and Stephen Bennett was within a whisker of scoring a goal with Dunford being unlucky also. Tipp on the other hand had one shot on Socks from a tight angle. In addition James Owen played a silly advantage when we gained possession on the sideline, having had a tap over free at our mercy. which is a game this tight is everything. Add to these the two very silly points we gave away with a poor puck outs and a poor clearance by Socks. These are the margins that games are won and lost on at a top level.
Yes it did not work as free flowing in attack as previous games but you must remember, yesterday was championship at its peak against one of the two top sides in the country who had ample time to study the system and for long parts of the game struggled badly with it. Experience played a massive part in yesterdays result. For Tom Devine, Stephen and Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran it was an introduction to a new level, and this will bring them on, they will learn from yesterday. Eddie Barrett had his first seriously competitive hurling game in over 12 months, and his first introduction to our system at this level, at times looked off the pace but this game will bring him on a mile. Darragh Fives returned to the fray adding a whole new world of options to us. Aussie was poor by his own standards but he will return.
Yes our attack did falter with bad decision making, we had at least three attempts at points striking the ball off the Hurley on the run when letting the ball across was a better option, and this needs to be worked on. I believe the system will evolve and we will be come more expansive, but it is important to keep the momentum going, The positions from yesterday far outweigh the negatives. for example.
Full back line looked steady out and Coughlan is growing in to the full back position with every game. Gleeson has so much more to offer than he delivered yesterday . Barrett has gotten a first game under his belt and will come on from this, Darragh Fives is back, Maurice showed yet again yesterday he is up there with the best, and The two Bennett's, Curran and Devine have gotten their introductions to life at the top and while things didn't necessarily go for them they will have learned a lot and will be better players for it.
There plenty things to work on, but in hindsight this result may turn out to be the makings of this team - I am sure somewhere in the back of many peoples minds, was the possibility of being opened up by a genuine All Ireland contender on their home ground on Munster Final day. it didn't happen. Had we won yesterday the euphoria and media frenzy would have been massive and it would be easy to get carried away. As it is we have time to refocus, get our heads down and work hard against Dublin and try and get a result, which believe me will not be easy. If we do we will face KK with a bit of momentum, and in my opinion an AI Semi-final is when they are at their most vulnerable (ha ha)
Almost 12 months on from Nolan Park we are disappointed at being narrowly beaten in a Munster Final (remember having lost Pauric Mahony for the championship), Wexford who were full of hope that might have stayed in Div 2 and been dumped out of the championship, while we who were in the depths of despair have lost our first competitive game in 2015 - and it's not over yet0 -
I was going to say there were some awfully grouchy people on here. Then I read blueflame's post, and saw that grouchy can be just fine.0
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Pretty fast wrote: »Unlucky yesterday lads. Limerick are out so now I stand full square behind The Decie.
Pick it up now and full steam ahead. This team are well capable of beating any of the remaining teams. The A I is there to be taken this year.
Up The deise!!!!!!!
I'm a cork man and we had a huge huge win Saturday and we showed signs chance in system but huge game v Galway
We have a good chance but no certainly
I don't think if we win that even any cork man belive we will challenge kk this year yet as kk are imo miles ahead rest bar tippeary who may not have the resolve beat them
My point is Cork aren't even thinking we can bear kk
This any given day imo is nonsense and futile against one team ireland in kk in every box must be ticked or at best you'll loose few points or draw but won't actually win
I don't see how waterford who are a defensive team in most ways will have time or I doubt that will change the style hugely to beat kk in yes will beat Dublin
Look at statics all league waterford struggle to score from play
Nine points yesterday highlights that
Cork tippeary and even looser clare got around fourteen or fifteen from play
Cork scored more on a bad night for hurling and yet kk still be huge ask
Kk have broken down mass defences before and will do again and won't conceded as much as tippeary so I can't see waterford beating them
I'd love waterford to win in opens up the championship and stops kk winning again but as Reid said last week when they dominated Galway second gear their real work starts all ireland semi final
Imo huge statement for the rest of the teams in kk are only warming up
Waterford gave everything yesterday and credit to management and players and they threw kitchen sink ar tippeary but the bottom line is they still lost by five points
To beat kk they will need a whole lot more
I don't think they have the attack or will change it to beat them and croke park will also be a huge factor as it's like a home game for kk
The only team to beat kk is tippeary and doubts remain over them do they truly belive they can
Cork Galway and waterford and Dublin are further of kk imo0 -
Some observations from the game yesterday and in general:
1. If you told me in January that Waterford would lose their first game of 2015 in a Munster final in mid July I'd have called you mad. Great progress.
2. An awful lot of people in attendance really don't have a clue about the game, and these seem to be among the most vocal!
3. All Irelands have already been won with this 'system'. More will also. It was great to see Waterford play a Munster final and not concede 7 goals! But seriously, the honesty of effort and tenacity displayed by the lads was excellent.
4. Austin Gleeson has so much potential, but needs a lot of work. Decision making is very frustrating at times. While he is obviously still very young, he's making a lot of the same mistakes he was last year. I hope someone is giving him time and reviewing his performances afterwards. Someone like Ken McGrath/Tony Browne/Fergal Hartley might be an ideal mentor?
5. Fine margins. SOK giving away cheap possession for 2-3 points. A goal chance going amiss, some poor wides. All at crucial periods of the game. That was the diffrerence between winning and losing.
6. Size. We're a small outfit. The age profile of the squad partly explains this. The likes of Tipp and KK in particular have a couple more years of conditioning in them, and it shows.
7. We're missing a marquee forward. All of the other All Ireland contenders have at least one of these. One may develop from our ranks yet however.
8. We'll have a great chance of making a semi, and maybe even a final. However I think that for 2015 at least, we're a little bit away from Tipp and KK who I see as being the top two teams.0 -
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are we playing Dublin nextthinkstoomuch1 wrote: »I'm a cork man and we had a huge huge win Saturday and we showed signs chance in system but huge game v Galway
We have a good chance but no certainly
I don't think if we win that even any cork man belive we will challenge kk this year yet as kk are imo miles ahead rest bar tippeary who may not have the resolve beat them
My point is Cork aren't even thinking we can bear kk
This any given day imo is nonsense and futile against one team ireland in kk in every box must be ticked or at best you'll loose few points or draw but won't actually win
I don't see how waterford who are a defensive team in most ways will have time or I doubt that will change the style hugely to beat kk in yes will beat Dublin
Look at statics all league waterford struggle to score from play
Nine points yesterday highlights that
Cork tippeary and even looser clare got around fourteen or fifteen from play
Cork scored more on a bad night for hurling and yet kk still be huge ask
Kk have broken down mass defences before and will do again and won't conceded as much as tippeary so I can't see waterford beating them
I'd love waterford to win in opens up the championship and stops kk winning again but as Reid said last week when they dominated Galway second gear their real work starts all ireland semi final
Imo huge statement for the rest of the teams in kk are only warming up
Waterford gave everything yesterday and credit to management and players and they threw kitchen sink ar tippeary but the bottom line is they still lost by five points
To beat kk they will need a whole lot more
I don't think they have the attack or will change it to beat them and croke park will also be a huge factor as it's like a home game for kk
The only team to beat kk is tippeary and doubts remain over them do they truly belive they can
Cork Galway and waterford and Dublin are further of kk imo0 -
Nothing wrong with waterford imo, our shooting let us down on the day end of story, everything up to that point was well executed, we don't need to go changing anything just a bit of target practice. I still think we will go all the way. Up the deise0
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Have never heard such utter bull**** in my life as what has come out on here and media in last 24 hours. The Waterford system worked yesterday, we didn't win the game but it worked. It is designed at keeping the opposition to a scoreline that gives us a chance of outscoring them and by limiting Tipp to 21 points we did that. Simple fact is we missed at least three or four tap over points, and Stephen Bennett was within a whisker of scoring a goal with Dunford being unlucky also. Tipp on the other hand had one shot on Socks from a tight angle. In addition James Owen played a silly advantage when we gained possession on the sideline, having had a tap over free at our mercy. which is a game this tight is everything. Add to these the two very silly points we gave away with a poor puck outs and a poor clearance by Socks. These are the margins that games are won and lost on at a top level.
Yes it did not work as free flowing in attack as previous games but you must remember, yesterday was championship at its peak against one of the two top sides in the country who had ample time to study the system and for long parts of the game struggled badly with it. Experience played a massive part in yesterdays result. For Tom Devine, Stephen and Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran it was an introduction to a new level, and this will bring them on, they will learn from yesterday. Eddie Barrett had his first seriously competitive hurling game in over 12 months, and his first introduction to our system at this level, at times looked off the pace but this game will bring him on a mile. Darragh Fives returned to the fray adding a whole new world of options to us. Aussie was poor by his own standards but he will return.
Yes our attack did falter with bad decision making, we had at least three attempts at points striking the ball off the Hurley on the run when letting the ball across was a better option, and this needs to be worked on. I believe the system will evolve and we will be come more expansive, but it is important to keep the momentum going, The positions from yesterday far outweigh the negatives. for example.
Full back line looked steady out and Coughlan is growing in to the full back position with every game. Gleeson has so much more to offer than he delivered yesterday . Barrett has gotten a first game under his belt and will come on from this, Darragh Fives is back, Maurice showed yet again yesterday he is up there with the best, and The two Bennett's, Curran and Devine have gotten their introductions to life at the top and while things didn't necessarily go for them they will have learned a lot and will be better players for it.
There plenty things to work on, but in hindsight this result may turn out to be the makings of this team - I am sure somewhere in the back of many peoples minds, was the possibility of being opened up by a genuine All Ireland contender on their home ground on Munster Final day. it didn't happen. Had we won yesterday the euphoria and media frenzy would have been massive and it would be easy to get carried away. As it is we have time to refocus, get our heads down and work hard against Dublin and try and get a result, which believe me will not be easy. If we do we will face KK with a bit of momentum, and in my opinion an AI Semi-final is when they are at their most vulnerable (ha ha)
Almost 12 months on from Nolan Park we are disappointed at being narrowly beaten in a Munster Final (remember having lost Pauric Mahony for the championship), Wexford who were full of hope that might have stayed in Div 2 and been dumped out of the championship, while we who were in the depths of despair have lost our first competitive game in 2015 - and it's not over yet
Great post. Agree thoroughly with what you are saying. I would give Jamie Barron a mention also as I think he is having a wonderful season to date,a few minor mistakes yesterday but again he will learn again from the intensity that he went through yesterday. I was perplexed by Barrett being included I must say as I didn't really see what he was going to offer unless the management wanted to physically strengthen the middle sector.
I think Stephen Bennett is struggling and hasn't produced what his undoubted talent suggests,to be honest I think he'll struggle to start the next day. I agree with the next day being a huge battle don't write the Dubs off just yet there's normally a big display from them and it hasn't happened yet. Still,as you say there are alot more positives than negatives but as long as we learn from some silly mistakes yesterday I think we're heading in the right direction. Maybe Darragh Fives into the number 5 position and release Aussie to the forwards? Add Shane Bennett up there for pace and I think we'll look alot stronger. Surely Tom Devine would have been better than Eddie Barrett in that position yesterday though? Overall with everything that went wrong we weren't far away,that alone tells me we can be even closer to the ultimate one in the not too distant future. Remember Paudie O Mahony will be a big plus(not this year) and add one or two more from this year's minors like Billy Nolan and Darragh Lyons and Ray Barry from his travels and we'll have a serious squad over the next 4-5 years.0 -
tommy_tucker wrote: »Nothing wrong with waterford imo, our shooting let us down on the day end of story, everything up to that point was well executed, we don't need to go changing anything just a bit of target practice. I still think we will go all the way. Up the deise
Not according to Thinks Too Much!! He or she is completely writing us off, should worry about his or hers county than other counties.0 -
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thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »I'm a cork man and we had a huge huge win Saturday and we showed signs chance in system but huge game v Galway
We have a good chance but no certainly
I don't think if we win that even any cork man belive we will challenge kk this year yet as kk are imo miles ahead rest bar tippeary who may not have the resolve beat them
My point is Cork aren't even thinking we can bear kk
This any given day imo is nonsense and futile against one team ireland in kk in every box must be ticked or at best you'll loose few points or draw but won't actually win
I don't see how waterford who are a defensive team in most ways will have time or I doubt that will change the style hugely to beat kk in yes will beat Dublin
Look at statics all league waterford struggle to score from play
Nine points yesterday highlights that
Cork tippeary and even looser clare got around fourteen or fifteen from play
Cork scored more on a bad night for hurling and yet kk still be huge ask
Kk have broken down mass defences before and will do again and won't conceded as much as tippeary so I can't see waterford beating them
I'd love waterford to win in opens up the championship and stops kk winning again but as Reid said last week when they dominated Galway second gear their real work starts all ireland semi final
Imo huge statement for the rest of the teams in kk are only warming up
Waterford gave everything yesterday and credit to management and players and they threw kitchen sink ar tippeary but the bottom line is they still lost by five points
To beat kk they will need a whole lot more
I don't think they have the attack or will change it to beat them and croke park will also be a huge factor as it's like a home game for kk
The only team to beat kk is tippeary and doubts remain over them do they truly belive they can
Cork Galway and waterford and Dublin are further of kk imo
I think you're struggling to score from play statement is a bit off the mark. Do you ever think that maybe if the player wasn't fouled then he might have actually scored from play?
Also we scored 3-10 from play against you boys in the last game. I'd hardly call that struggling from play. Against Tipp in the semi we scored 1-07 from play and they scored 2-09 so not a huge difference.
Ya can say many things but ya can't say that a team struggle to score just because they get fouled in a scoreable position. That's ludicrous.0 -
I think you have the marquee forward in Shanahan , but he is required further outfield0
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Some people will say it was obvious, but I think it's worth noting that someone in authority remembered David Houlihan. Well done to all concerned.0
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