Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

blueflame

Great win last night but much more to this team. Agree about Aussie's display but he is still only like a kid in a sweet shop, he is U-21 again next years and has time to develop and learn. Hard to put an ould head on young shoulders, the point he scored just after half time was worth the entrance money. Was standing next to a lad from Cork who was astounded by his quality. Shane Bennett is another who has unbelievable talent but many times last night did not let the ball go that could have resulted in more scores, but again he is only a kid too. Devine is an absolute Monster especially when he moves at pace, one poor Cork lad tried to stop him coming out with a ball and i think they had to return him from the stands. On Patrick Curran, what a talent but we need to be patient. He is now going to be coming up against stronger more experienced and higher quality opponents than at underage. He doesn't appear to have that blinding burst of pace but his hurling ability and brain is second to none, he always manages to find space, tends to pick the right shot and very accurate from play and placed balls. Incidentally the only person in the field last night that did not think he was raped never mind fouled fro a penalty, was the ref. If we could combine himself and Gleeson, unstoppable.

A serious squad, but facing a serious challenge to get ready for Clare, but these are the challenges that can make a team. Roll on the summer

deiseach

I'd love to be able to have a chat with Austin Gleeson about last night. I'm not convinced that it was a case of youthful exuberance. He's got plenty of miles on the clock now and I don't think he is going to change his ways, which is a worry. On the other hand, I've not seen him so nakedly cavalier before. Watching at home or in the stands, you might be thinking that these were all missed chances that we were going to regret. But down on the pitch, his attitude was probably that he was going to make these guys his bitches, so superior were Waterford to Cork. It was ridiculous, the way Cork players were bouncing off their opponents. Long before the end I was seeing loose balls and just knew a Waterford player would be first to it, even if they were a couple of yards behind the nearest Cork man. If you're going to throw caution to the wind, last night was the night to do it. I hope that's what he was thinking anyway.

In other news, the Cork lads on here have let us know in no uncertain terms that they are in serious trouble, and I think we saw it writ large last night. I didn't feel a bit sorry for 'Cork' as the memories of countless beatings came to mind, but I managed to feel for their players who have put in the effort yet have clearly not been given the same opportunities that the Waterford lads have been given coming through the ranks. If it were just Waterford who had a formidable team then there wouldn't be anything to worry about as the cycle would inevitably drag Waterford back down and Cork's superior resources would prove telling, but with Clare and Limerick even better than us over the medium term it looks (assuming nothing changes; the natives are clearly restless down Leeside) like there is always going to be someone from the traditionally weaker counties to slap Cork down.

Isn't it great?

Hslaw

archieknox wrote: »

Waterford won 17 of their 19 puckouts. Most of these were short to both corners where Cork were happy to leave us gain possession there and try to defend us from deep. But Cork were so poor even in the basic skills and not great either at defending from deep that we found space at will and really didn't look like we didn't come out of 2nd gear. Big ask to go to Ennis 3 days after the senior final and try to win there but I believe we can up the intensity to another level and come away from there victorious.

We could of beating Clare the last two times we played them at U21 level.

Deise_2012

Lads I'm tryna watch the game on tg4 player because I missed it last night. I'm getting the error message "VE_FMS_CONNECT_FAILED....any computer expert know a solution or did anyone see this before?

Hslaw

TyrionPower wrote: »

What a difference a year makes in sport, I was never as low leaving a match after the U21 game against Cork last year, some of our best up and coming players in years - hammered... Remembering the comments here it hit a lot of people hard... Hard to believe the progress we have made

we have a good management team now. With Browne and mulane added it only strengthens it

stumblingblock

deiseach wrote: »

I'd love to be able to have a chat with Austin Gleeson about last night. I'm not convinced that it was a case of youthful exuberance. He's got plenty of miles on the clock now and I don't think he is going to change his ways, which is a worry. On the other hand, I've not seen him so nakedly cavalier before. Watching at home or in the stands, you might be thinking that these were all missed chances that we were going to regret. But down on the pitch, his attitude was probably that he was going to make these guys his bitches, so superior were Waterford to Cork. It was ridiculous, the way Cork players were bouncing off their opponents. Long before the end I was seeing loose balls and just knew a Waterford player would be first to it, even if they were a couple of yards behind the nearest Cork man. If you're going to throw caution to the wind, last night was the night to do it. I hope that's what he was thinking anyway.

In other news, the Cork lads on here have let us know in no uncertain terms that they are in serious trouble, and I think we saw it writ large last night. I didn't feel a bit sorry for 'Cork' as the memories of countless beatings came to mind, but I managed to feel for their players who have put in the effort yet have clearly not been given the same opportunities that the Waterford lads have been given coming through the ranks. If it were just Waterford who had a formidable team then there wouldn't be anything to worry about as the cycle would inevitably drag Waterford back down and Cork's superior resources would prove telling, but with Clare and Limerick even better than us over the medium term it looks (assuming nothing changes; the natives are clearly restless down Leeside) like there is always going to be someone from the traditionally weaker counties to slap Cork down.

Isn't it great?

Cork have a good minor team this year. Their 'demise' is overstated. I wouldnt worry about them they wont be down for too lobg

Waternut

deiseach wrote: »

I'd love to be able to have a chat with Austin Gleeson about last night. I'm not convinced that it was a case of youthful exuberance. He's got plenty of miles on the clock now and I don't think he is going to change his ways, which is a worry. On the other hand, I've not seen him so nakedly cavalier before. Watching at home or in the stands, you might be thinking that these were all missed chances that we were going to regret. But down on the pitch, his attitude was probably that he was going to make these guys his bitches, so superior were Waterford to Cork. It was ridiculous, the way Cork players were bouncing off their opponents. Long before the end I was seeing loose balls and just knew a Waterford player would be first to it, even if they were a couple of yards behind the nearest Cork man. If you're going to throw caution to the wind, last night was the night to do it. I hope that's what he was thinking anyway.

In other news, the Cork lads on here have let us know in no uncertain terms that they are in serious trouble, and I think we saw it writ large last night. I didn't feel a bit sorry for 'Cork' as the memories of countless beatings came to mind, but I managed to feel for their players who have put in the effort yet have clearly not been given the same opportunities that the Waterford lads have been given coming through the ranks. If it were just Waterford who had a formidable team then there wouldn't be anything to worry about as the cycle would inevitably drag Waterford back down and Cork's superior resources would prove telling, but with Clare and Limerick even better than us over the medium term it looks (assuming nothing changes; the natives are clearly restless down Leeside) like there is always going to be someone from the traditionally weaker counties to slap Cork down.

Isn't it great?

Missed the match last night. Can you watch it on TG4 on the internet. I'm interested to see how some of the non panelists and recent panel additions went. I hear what a lot of Cork lads are saying about the game of hurling in Cork. They were missing Pa O'Call and that Bandon lad Mickael Cahelane for various reasons. These two are super talented so its not like they are not producing hurlers. Waterford went through a few good years where they had good minor teams. I would probably fear for Waterford at minor level for the coming few years and Cork have been very competitive at Harty and Dean Ryan level for the last year or so. Waterford school teams are going through a lull at the moment. Interesting that seven of the starters I think won Harty with Dungarvan Colleges.

deiseach

stumblingblock wrote: »

Cork have a very good minor team this year. Their 'demise' is overstated. Dont worry about them they wont be down for too long.

They'll have good teams again, but as things stand it'll be more by accident than design. And I'm sure things will change in the way they prepare. They have to.

Deise Vu

A few thoughts on the game. We possibly need to try and dampen expectations at this stage and consider that, along with us clearly being at a level we probably only reached once or twice in the last 20 years, that Cork are possibly at their lowest ebb ever. It was a joy to watch a Waterford team whose touch and fitness was far superior to Cork's, but what was striking was the difference in strength. Our players could break tackles or shunt their markers off the ball with ease. I hate the constant County Board bashing that goes on when teams are losing but there clearly is actually something seriously wrong in Cork when they are putting out teams in such poor physical condition.

On the Austin conundrum I am reminded of my late father who every single time a ball went wide used to roar on frustration "why didn't he drop it in the square" no matter where the shot as taken from. Austin does make a lot of bad choices but it is the nature of sport that we don't know what would happen if he didn't take the shot. A lot of his efforts are from ridiculously long distances (which he covers with ease if not accurately enough) so, as far as I'm concerned they are clearances with a low percentage of a score at the other end. Give him time and his choices will improve and also his accuracy and, in the meantime, enjoy the good ones which are unreal.

I don't know John Mullane other than from his playing persona which was amazing and I hope he is an inspiration to the youngsters. I hate to be negative but I hope we don't see him repeating his performance last night where he went out on the pitch and had words with Patrick Curran as he was about to take a free when we were cruising. If we were being beaten it might have antagonised the opposition and roused the Waterford crowd but last night it just look like he was putting himself at the centre of attention especially when coupled with his Phil Brown impression at the end where he seemed to be berating the players in case they thought they had medals won. These kids seem way to sensible to get carried away by a Qtr final victory so I think John should save it for when it's needed.

Just to finish on an up note, in forty years or so following the Déise though some really harrowing experiences ('82'83'88'89'08 are the obvious ones but the Roscommon / Kerry experiences were actually even more damaging) I have never been as confident of the future as I am now. The only negative I can think of is that there are going to be some seriously talented players who won't get regular game time in the future. I don't envy future selectors their job because they are always going to be wrong!

JeffKenna

Good performance last night. From what I could see the Waterford support outnumbered the Cork support but I suppose that could be due to the perception that Cork would be beaten well.

I didn't think it was a great match from a neutral perspective, seemed to be a bit slow and lacking a competitive edge. Without getting too carried away, it was really fantastic to sit and watch a match knowing full well after the first 20 mins Waterford would win. Seemed to stay in second or third gear at times with the feeling that if it was needed we could easily step it up a notch.
Have to mention Tom Devine... what a player.

stumblingblock

deiseach wrote: »

They'll have good teams again, but as things stand it'll be more by accident than design. And I'm sure things will change in the way they prepare. They have to.

These things happen in cycles. Its an exceptional group of guys after coming through in waterford over the past couple of years. So we should savour every good day we get out of them. If you look from minor down this year there isnt near the same amount of quality players. Cork have had a lean couple of years but their still a formiddable force in hurling and always will be

deiseach

Deise Vu wrote: »

The only negative I can think of is that there are going to be some seriously talented players who won't get regular game time in the future. I don't envy future selectors their job because they are always going to be wrong!

Remember three years ago when Cork squeaked past us in Thurles by emptying the bench with the likes of John Gardiner and Cathal F Naughton? Now we have the likes of Tom Devine, Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran

deisedude

deiseach wrote: »

Remember three years ago when Cork squeaked past us in Thurles by emptying the bench with the likes of John Gardiner and Cathal F Naughton? Now we have the likes of Tom Devine, Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran

Thats it, in order to win an All Ireland now you need at least 22 very good players.

One of our major downfalls of our team in the 00's is we never had a bench and often had one or 2 lads starting that weren't up to intercounty standard

Cake Man

Delighted with last nights result, funny to think we put up 1-21 without getting out of third gear. We must've had wides in double digits and 3 or 4 balls that dropped short into their keeper. Could easily have had upwards of 1-30, not to mention a few goal scoring opportunities.

Agree Aussie needs to start laying the ball off instead of the Hail Mary efforts. To be fair to him his radar is usually more accurate and on another day would've put a few more points on the board. Devine, Tadgh, Bennetts (x3), Curran all superb. Very impressed with Darragh Lyons when he was introduced.

Not ideal having Clare away 3 days after the senior munster final but I'd much prefer that then being knocked out of both (Snr and u21) after the first game which has been the diet we've been living off for the last 3 years.

Really looking forward to the summer now, plenty to play for. Well done lads!

TyrionPower

Cake Man wrote: »

Delighted with last nights result, funny to think we put up 1-21 without getting out of third gear. We must've had wides in double digits and 3 or 4 balls that dropped short into their keeper. Could easily have had upwards of 1-30, not to mention a few goal scoring opportunities.

Agree Aussie needs to start laying the ball off instead of the Hail Mary efforts. To be fair to him his radar is usually more accurate and on another day would've put a few more points on the board. Devine, Tadgh, Bennetts (x3), Curran all superb. Very impressed with Darragh Lyons when he was introduced.

Not ideal having Clare away 3 days after the senior munster final but I'd much prefer that then being knocked out of both (Snr and u21) after the first game which has been the diet we've been living off for the last 3 years.

Really looking forward to the summer now, plenty to play for. Well done lads!

I thought Daragh Lyons started instead of Cormack curran? I could be wrong as I was a few minutes late - but he looks very good

commonsense.

stumblingblock wrote:

Cork have a good minor team this year. Their 'demise' is overstated. I wouldnt worry about them they wont be down for too lobg

Well if you consider no senior AI in 10 yrs, no minor AI in 14 yrs and no U21 AI in 19 yrs then yes, it is overstated. That sort of famine is unheard of in Corks hurling history. Have no doubt, the game is in serious trouble in Cork. Yes it can be turned around but it would take serious work over an extended period of time. And unfortunately that will absolutely not happen as long as Frank remains in situ. And that is the really depressing thing. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Mehapoy

commonsense. wrote: »

Well if you consider no senior AI in 10 yrs, no minor AI in 14 yrs and no U21 AI in 19 yrs then yes, it is overstated. That sort of famine is unheard of in Corks hurling history. Have no doubt, the game is in serious trouble in Cork. Yes it can be turned around but it would take serious work over an extended period of time. And unfortunately that will absolutely not happen as long as Frank remains in situ. And that is the really depressing thing. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Yes cork are down at the moment but looks to be getting their act together, will they be as dominant as before again though? One thing though considering their population if they ever really get their act together and harness all their resources they would dominate Munster like Dublin footballers have dominated Leinster

PTH2009

deiseach wrote: »

Remember three years ago when Cork squeaked past us in Thurles by emptying the bench with the likes of John Gardiner and Cathal F Naughton? Now we have the likes of Tom Devine, Shane Bennett and Patrick Curran

remember that game in 2012 shane casey misssed a certain chance in front of goal, john mullane was fouled in the box and nothing was given and it was also his, eoin mcgraths and eoin kellys last game for waterford. It was terrible day because we were the first game on that day. i hope if we do have to play in the quarter finals this year we are the 4pm game because i hate being an early game

the sunshine supporters will be back for the munster final, the ones who go up and spend there time in the pub and are 10 mins late for the match and would know **** all about hurling.

by the time we play the munster final there will be only 6 teams left in the championship

TyrionPower

commonsense. wrote: »

Well if you consider no senior AI in 10 yrs, no minor AI in 14 yrs and no U21 AI in 19 yrs then yes, it is overstated. That sort of famine is unheard of in Corks hurling history. Have no doubt, the game is in serious trouble in Cork. Yes it can be turned around but it would take serious work over an extended period of time. And unfortunately that will absolutely not happen as long as Frank remains in situ. And that is the really depressing thing. There is no light at the end of the tunnel.

Why won't is happen under Frank? Is it a funding issue?

Miall108

TyrionPower wrote: »

Why won't is happen under Frank? Is it a funding issue?

Id imagine it would be if Cork are putting so much into the new stadium. Their fcuked by the looks of it unless something drastic is done

crottys lake

Congratulations to the Waterford U21 squad and their management team which is headed up by Derek Lyons and ably assisted by Tony Browne, Donncha Enright, Paul Keane and John Mullane. Also well done to their trainer and physio's.

The squad were prepared in a very thorough manner and it should be remembered that their initiative of playing all the senior club teams at the start of the year was a terrific move and was a seachange in overall thinking from previous years. This was a very worthwhile exercise and should be applauded.

Busy times for Waterford now so let's hope that all the lads can keep injury free.

It was also a welcome sight to see so many supporters in Cork last evening. Well done Waterford.

coopdog85

Deise Vu wrote: »

A few thoughts on the game. We possibly need to try and dampen expectations at this stage and consider that, along with us clearly being at a level we probably only reached once or twice in the last 20 years, that Cork are possibly at their lowest ebb ever. It was a joy to watch a Waterford team whose touch and fitness was far superior to Cork's, but what was striking was the difference in strength. Our players could break tackles or shunt their markers off the ball with ease. I hate the constant County Board bashing that goes on when teams are losing but there clearly is actually something seriously wrong in Cork when they are putting out teams in such poor physical condition.

On the Austin conundrum I am reminded of my late father who every single time a ball went wide used to roar on frustration "why didn't he drop it in the square" no matter where the shot as taken from. Austin does make a lot of bad choices but it is the nature of sport that we don't know what would happen if he didn't take the shot. A lot of his efforts are from ridiculously long distances (which he covers with ease if not accurately enough) so, as far as I'm concerned they are clearances with a low percentage of a score at the other end. Give him time and his choices will improve and also his accuracy and, in the meantime, enjoy the good ones which are unreal.

I don't know John Mullane other than from his playing persona which was amazing and I hope he is an inspiration to the youngsters. I hate to be negative but I hope we don't see him repeating his performance last night where he went out on the pitch and had words with Patrick Curran as he was about to take a free when we were cruising. If we were being beaten it might have antagonised the opposition and roused the Waterford crowd but last night it just look like he was putting himself at the centre of attention especially when coupled with his Phil Brown impression at the end where he seemed to be berating the players in case they thought they had medals won. These kids seem way to sensible to get carried away by a Qtr final victory so I think John should save it for when it's needed.

Just to finish on an up note, in forty years or so following the Déise though some really harrowing experiences ('82'83'88'89'08 are the obvious ones but the Roscommon / Kerry experiences were actually even more damaging) I have never been as confident of the future as I am now. The only negative I can think of is that there are going to be some seriously talented players who won't get regular game time in the future. I don't envy future selectors their job because they are always going to be wrong!

The thing with Mullane at the end you could see him say "I'm proud of yee". Whatever he said will do those lads more good than harm.

blue note

PTH2009 wrote: »

the sunshine supporters will be back for the munster final, the ones who go up and spend there time in the pub and are 10 mins late for the match and would know **** all about hurling.

I'll be delighted to see them back. Great to see the casual fan interested again!

HatchetMan7

Would it be fair to say that Tom Devine and Shane Bennett deserve to be in the starting 15 for the Munster final. Or would people think its more important to have subs coming in that can make real impacts on the game.

PTH2009

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that Tom Devine and Shane Bennett deserve to be in the starting 15 for the Munster final. Or would people think its more important to have subs coming in that can make real impacts on the game.

It's going to be a hard task to pick a senior starting 15 for the final hopefully no one gets injured in the next round of club games .

archieknox

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that Tom Devine and Shane Bennett deserve to be in the starting 15 for the Munster final. Or would people think its more important to have subs coming in that can make real impacts on the game.

Shane Bennett will start instead of Brian O Halloran I think. Devine of course could also start but Bennett just seems to have that something special about him. Although its fair to say both will come up against better defenders than last night they still will take some stopping when in full flight. Add Paddy Curran to that and suddenly we have proper options off the bench.
Heard rumblings that there could be a few of last night's panel not available for the Clare game for different reasons. The call of the American buck is attracting at least one of the squad and more not happy at seeing game time so maybe its a case of watch this space and see if anything comes to fruition.

paddy13

archieknox wrote: »

Shane Bennett will start instead of Brian O Halloran I think. Devine of course could also start but Bennett just seems to have that something special about him. Although its fair to say both will come up against better defenders than last night they still will take some stopping when in full flight. Add Paddy Curran to that and suddenly we have proper options off the bench.
Heard rumblings that there could be a few of last night's panel not available for the Clare game for different reasons. The call of the American buck is attracting at least one of the squad and more not happy at seeing game time so maybe its a case of watch this space and see if anything comes to fruition.

Usually a winning team is a happy team. So I wouldn't be overly concerned.

TyrionPower

archieknox wrote: »

Shane Bennett will start instead of Brian O Halloran I think. Devine of course could also start but Bennett just seems to have that something special about him. Although its fair to say both will come up against better defenders than last night they still will take some stopping when in full flight. Add Paddy Curran to that and suddenly we have proper options off the bench.
Heard rumblings that there could be a few of last night's panel not available for the Clare game for different reasons. The call of the American buck is attracting at least one of the squad and more not happy at seeing game time so maybe its a case of watch this space and see if anything comes to fruition.

You can't keep everyone happy - if there are selfish individuals who can't buy into the squad/team ethos in a year that we beat Cork by 10 points then what can you do?
99% of people at the game would say the best 15 available on the day were played, so I wouldn't be overly bothered.
If a guy wants to go to the states, leave him off... He would be after leaving the panel for an hour and he is forgotten about... That's Hurling for ya!
Look at all the fellas Derek dropped last year - they don't come up much these days do they?

KevIRL

Really looking forward to the weekends hurling. 3 games, all televised and its great to be sitting back enjoying them and from a Waterford point of view not worrying about possible qualifier draw opponents. Am going to go to Nowlan Park for the KK-Wex game, always a great place to watch hurling, KK the likely winners but every now and again Wexford pull one out of the bag against them so who knows.

Assume the qualifier draw is Monday morning?

SkipFC

Have the footballers any chance tomorrow?