Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

mickmackmcgoo

KevIRL wrote:

Think that Moran and Barron in the middle are fantastic value at 10/1

I'd back both of them so . Cannot see connors getting one , he hasn't been as good as usual this season . It will suit the panel who picks them that aussie is a shoe in as they will probably pick him at half forward or midfield to accommodate others. They have form with this. If Aussie gets midfield or half forward that will lessen the prospects of moran and barron. Half back line will be interesting. Padraig Walsh. Daithi Burke. Cillian Buckley. Mahers from tipp. Although aussie is 1/100 to get half back award I wouldn't be surprised if he gets midfield

HatchetMan7

Fred C Dobbs wrote: »

Under age success doesn't automatically translate into Senior AIs (e.g. Limerick and Galway) but there is a progression about Waterford under age hurling that's looks irresistible. There's a great mix to the U21s ; lots of skill, small nippy players allied to some big, powerful ones.

Wasn't at the match but Galway looked ordinary enough on TV ; can see Curran, Devine and Stephen Bennett making hay in the Final, not forgetting another potential masterclass from Gleeson (who never had to get out of 2nd gear yesterday). Crazy that Galway walk straight into semi final and Ulster winners likewise (not the counties fault, I know) and while Antrim surprised Wexford in the past, would it not be better to throw both counties into Leinster with the 2 'provincial' winners meeting in the final itself.

I think the Gaa should trial an open draw for the under 21 championship and do away with provincials.

MfMan

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

I'd back both of them so . Cannot see connors getting one , he hasn't been as good as usual this season . It will suit the panel who picks them that aussie is a shoe in as they will probably pick him at half forward or midfield to accommodate others. They have form with this. If Aussie gets midfield or half forward that will lessen the prospects of moran and barron. Half back line will be interesting. Padraig Walsh. Daithi Burke. Cillian Buckley. Mahers from tipp. Although aussie is 1/100 to get half back award I wouldn't be surprised if he gets midfield

Daithi Burke should get no. 3 where he's played his most important games in the c'ship this year. David Burke should get midfield also; that's it for Galway. Unlikely Canning will get an award to make up for his shocking omission last year.

Deisegodeo

Gleeson is a certainty. Barron deserves one for his displays over the whole season but midfield could be difficult. Gleeson could be accommodated at midfield depending on who else the judges are looking to include. Then add in Michael Breen, David Burke, even Richie Hogan could slot into midfield and he is another certainty. So while Barron deserves one i feel, its not hard to see how he might miss out. Either Pauric Mahony or Moran could get the nod if we got a second

Ropaire

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

I think the Gaa should trial an open draw for the under 21 championship and do away with provincials.

If so, would love to see a combined Connacht without Galway and an Ulster team in it to promote the game in weaker counties and give younglads in them an outlet to show what they can do.

PTH2009

Ropaire wrote: »

If so, would love to see a combined Connacht without Galway and an Ulster team in it to promote the game in weaker counties and give younglads in them an outlet to show what they can do.

Good thinking but would be hard to pick a squad from 4 counties (connacht) and 9 counties (Ulster). They would have to be selectors from each county in the prov and the whole thing could be a big mess

Ropaire

PTH2009 wrote: »

Good thinking but would be hard to pick a squad from 4 counties (connacht) and 9 counties (Ulster). They would have to be selectors from each county in the prov and the whole thing could be a big mess

There's better ways to implement it alright but if the point of underage hurling is to develop players for senior inter county hurling then something like this would at least give them somewhere to start. Combined school teams did us no harm, maybe combined county teams would bring on a few more counties and spread the game. There's lads in this country who have never held a hurl and it's meant to be our national sport like, the GAA should be trying to grow it.

robopaddy2

Ropaire wrote: »

PTH2009 wrote: »

Good thinking but would be hard to pick a squad from 4 counties (connacht) and 9 counties (Ulster). They would have to be selectors from each county in the prov and the whole thing could be a big mess

There's better ways to implement it alright but if the point of underage hurling is to develop players for senior inter county hurling then something like this would at least give them somewhere to start. Combined school teams did us no harm, maybe combined county teams would bring on a few more counties and spread the game. There's lads in this country who have never held a hurl and it's meant to be our national sport like, the GAA should be trying to grow it.

There needs to be an appetitie for it in the weaker counties. Many have shown their just not interested in promoting the game unfortunately

robopaddy2

I would think Pauric Mahony is next in line after Gleeson to get one for Waterford. His performances against Kilkenny alone will have him in line for one. Barron and Moran outside bets at best. Brick can expect a nomination. After that its hard to make too many arguments for anyone else. Gleeson a cert for yhoty and strong candidate for hoty depending on the AI final. No outstanding candidates yet from Tipp or KK in my opinion. Traditionally the league champions would win one, but very hard to make a case for any Clare player. Outside of Tony Kelly, even he wasn't up to his usual high standards

BonnieSituation

Ropaire wrote: »

If so, would love to see a combined Connacht without Galway and an Ulster team in it to promote the game in weaker counties and give younglads in them an outlet to show what they can do.

PTH2009 wrote: »

Good thinking but would be hard to pick a squad from 4 counties (connacht) and 9 counties (Ulster). They would have to be selectors from each county in the prov and the whole thing could be a big mess

It's an absolute no brainer of an idea and should be done. Though I would have Ulster as West Ulster (Donegal, Tyrone, Fermanagh, Derry), Mid-Ulster (Armagh, Monaghan, Cavan) and Down and Antrim as separate sides.

In any case Antrim GAA shouldn't be allowed near any combined team. They'll fook it up.

Cake Man

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I would think Pauric Mahony is next in line after Gleeson to get one for Waterford. His performances against Kilkenny alone will have him in line for one. Barron and Moran outside bets at best. Brick can expect a nomination. After that its hard to make too many arguments for anyone else. Gleeson a cert for yhoty and strong candidate for hoty depending on the AI final. No outstanding candidates yet from Tipp or KK in my opinion. Traditionally the league champions would win one, but very hard to make a case for any Clare player. Outside of Tony Kelly, even he wasn't up to his usual high standards

Was going to ask if HOTY and YHOTY has ever been won by the same player and realised Tony Kelly was the only one. Would be some achievement all the same. Gleeson definitely YHOTY but probably a bridge too far for HOTY as well. I reckon if we got over KK (on either day), Aussie would've most definitely be down for both no matter what happened in an AI final (or even an average enough game in the final to seal it). In terms of Tipp and KK candidates, I think Michael Breen might be in with a good shout.


For these things, do they factor in league as well? And U21 for YHOTY?

robopaddy2

Cake Man wrote: »

Was going to ask if HOTY and YHOTY has ever been won by the same player and realised Tony Kelly was the only one. Would be some achievement all the same. Gleeson definitely YHOTY but probably a bridge too far for HOTY as well. I reckon if we got over KK (on either day), Aussie would've most definitely be down for both no matter what happened in an AI final (or even an average enough game in the final to seal it). In terms of Tipp and KK candidates, I think Michael Breen might be in with a good shout.


For these things, do they factor in league as well? And U21 for YHOTY?

Historically the league was always factored in. After the backdoor came in and then KK's dominance ( they win the league & AI regularly anyway) I'm not sure if is really relevant anymore. Like the poty, I think ypoty is now based on senior championship only. There is a separate award for the 21 player of the year through Bord Gais as its separate competition.

The only 2 times I can remember where Hurler of the Year came from counties that didn't win the All Ireland was Tony Browne in 98 and Dan Shanahan in 2007. Its takes an exceptional season to do it and I believe Gleeson as been right up there. Hes got a great shout.

mountgomery burns

Hurler of the Year is voted for by the players I believe.

DE DEISE

U21 Final tickets , when do they go on sale ?

deiseach

Of all the GAA tournaments that need changing, the Under-21 championship is surely the one that needs it the least. If Antrim and Galway want to enter the Leinster/Munster provincial championships, fine. Galway played in the Munster championship once upon a time, even visiting defeats on Waterford in 1965 and 1967, something their Seniors didn't manage in three attempts. I bet they'd both get cold feet once the impact of it became clear though, with exit at the first attempt at the hands of someone a bit less rock-and-roll than Austin Gleeson for Antrim, while Galway will always find some reason to complain that they are being disadvantaged. How were Dublin helped by a seven-week break since they last played? Who will have had the greater test before the final - Waterford or Galway? Tinker away with Senior and Minor, but let's keep the provincial straight knockout model in the Under-21.

danganabu

KevIRL wrote: »

I'd agree we'll get 2, possibly 3. Gleeson a shoe in of course

I reckon there is a chance to make a few quid on the other one in the PP market.

Gleeson is 1/100 and unbackable

Next shortest Waterford player is Connors at 4/1 followed by Paudie at 13/2. Moran and Barron both 10/1.

Considering most likely ones are odds on it is a matter of getting the likely Waterford second All Star.

Think that Moran and Barron in the middle are fantastic value at 10/1

Barron is the value there for me, Noel Connors at 4/1 is laughable, great player for a number of years, but had an absolute shocker of a year.

thesultan

Shane fives was decent

robopaddy2

deiseach wrote: »

Of all the GAA tournaments that need changing, the Under-21 championship is surely the one that needs it the least. If Antrim and Galway want to enter the Leinster/Munster provincial championships, fine. Galway played in the Munster championship once upon a time, even visiting defeats on Waterford in 1965 and 1967, something their Seniors didn't manage in three attempts. I bet they'd both get cold feet once the impact of it became clear though, with exit at the first attempt at the hands of someone a bit less rock-and-roll than Austin Gleeson for Antrim, while Galway will always find some reason to complain that they are being disadvantaged. How were Dublin helped by a seven-week break since they last played? Who will have had the greater test before the final - Waterford or Galway? Tinker away with Senior and Minor, but let's keep the provincial straight knockout model in the Under-21.

Interesting to see the Galway minor manager calling for them to enter Leinster after they were hammered in the AI semi recently. Didn't see the same complaints from the u21 manager after Saturday. Its only an issue when they lose it seems. As for Antrim well they compete in the Leinster and the Ulster championship. How is that logical. Sounds like they want to have their cake and eat it aswell. Want the benefits of playing in Leinster but at the same time don't want to relinquish the roll of honour in Ulster. The bottom line is plenty has been done to accommodate these counties but at the end of the day it's their own houses they need to get in order.

Cake Man

This weekend we have the underage tournaments - Arrabawn U16, U15 tournaments, Tony Forristal and Sonny Walsh (U14). Anyone able to give any info on what our teams are like or what players are worth keeping an eye on? Or even who is in charge of any of the teams?
These are usually good to see what prospects are coming through.


For the Tony Forristal, it turned out a bit arseways as Antrim pulled out recently. So what they've done is combined the other two teams in Antrim's group into ours to make it effectively a 5 team group but each team still only plays 2 games, top 2 qualify for the semi final.
We're in Group 3 with Tipp, KK, Wexford and Offaly with all games at St. Saviours grounds. First game v Offaly at 11.40 and then Wexford at 13.20.


Sonny Walsh team are in a group with KK (10.50 throw in) and Tipp (12.30 throw in) at DLS Gracedieu.


Full fixtures here: https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=389CC68BED82CCC!8227&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AIH0eR_AY1E9NbY

robopaddy2

Cake Man wrote: »

This weekend we have the underage tournaments - Arrabawn U16, U15 tournaments, Tony Forristal and Sonny Walsh (U14). Anyone able to give any info on what our teams are like or what players are worth keeping an eye on? Or even who is in charge of any of the teams?
These are usually good to see what prospects are coming through.


For the Tony Forristal, it turned out a bit arseways as Antrim pulled out recently. So what they've done is combined the other two teams in Antrim's group into ours to make it effectively a 5 team group but each team still only plays 2 games, top 2 qualify for the semi final.
We're in Group 3 with Tipp, KK, Wexford and Offaly with all games at St. Saviours grounds. First game v Offaly at 11.40 and then Wexford at 13.20.


Sonny Walsh team are in a group with KK (10.50 throw in) and Tipp (12.30 throw in) at DLS Gracedieu.


Full fixtures here: https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=389CC68BED82CCC!8227&ithint=file%2cxlsx&app=Excel&authkey=!AIH0eR_AY1E9NbY

Any idea why Antrim pulled out?

We haven't contested a Tony Forristal Final since 2012 (this years minor group) after competing in something like 7 of the previous 9, don't think were hugely strong in u15 or 16 to be honest. Lets hope the u14s can progress, need to keep that conveyor belt rolling.

PTH2009

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Any idea why Antrim pulled out?

We haven't contested a Tony Forristal Final since 2012 (this years minor group) after competing in something like 7 of the previous 9, don't think were hugely strong in u15 or 16 to be honest. Lets hope the u14s can progress, need to keep that conveyor belt rolling.

Suppose to be a good squad this year I've heard

aidan24326

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Interesting to see the Galway minor manager calling for them to enter Leinster after they were hammered in the AI semi recently. Didn't see the same complaints from the u21 manager after Saturday. Its only an issue when they lose it seems. As for Antrim well they compete in the Leinster and the Ulster championship. How is that logical. Sounds like they want to have their cake and eat it aswell. Want the benefits of playing in Leinster but at the same time don't want to relinquish the roll of honour in Ulster. The bottom line is plenty has been done to accommodate these counties but at the end of the day it's their own houses they need to get in order.

That simply isn't true. Galway have wanted to enter the Leinster minor and under-21 championships for years now but have been blocked by the Leinster Council.

This year's blip aside Galway have a very good record at minor level so it's nothing to do with whinging because we lost. And it's hardly Galway's fault that we have no credible opposition in Connaught. Would be great if we had but the reality is that Galway are light years ahead of the other Connaught counties and that isn't likely to change.

The under-21 situation is a joke though and needs to be addressed. Having Galway go straight into a semi final does nobody any favours. On the one hand you could say it's unfair to other teams that Galway walk straight into a semi final but it's also unfair on Galway that they go into a semi final facing a team that are battled-hardened from a tough provincial campaign, not to mention the fact that they get a max of 2 games.

It's a farcical setup but the question needs to be asked as to why the Leinster council won't let Galway's underage teams in.

As for the upcoming final, I'd have to rate Waterford as favourites, Galway weren't overly impressive on Saturday against a limited enough Dublin team and it seems Conor Whelan will be out for the final too which is a serious blow. Waterford by 7 or 8 I think.

DE DEISE

Hope there will be a BIG Waterford support for the U21's , let's show our lads & these other counties watching how strongly we support this group of serious talented players we have in Waterford .

Deise Abu

seananigans

DE DEISE wrote: »

Hope there will be a BIG Waterford support for the U21's , let's show our lads & these other counties watching how strongly we support this group of serious talented players we have in Waterford .

Deise Abu

Any word if the round of club games is being called off this weekend, could do with a fully fit team,

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/shoulder-injury-setback-sees-whelan-likely-to-miss-galway-u21s-date-with-dise-34987060.html

Galway COBO playing theirs but would like Shane Bennett and Austin at their best, 24 years is a long time to be waiting and would be heartbreaking if we had a ballyduff like incident w/pauric again

robopaddy2

seananigans wrote: »

Any word if the round of club games is being called off this weekend, could do with a fully fit team,

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/shoulder-injury-setback-sees-whelan-likely-to-miss-galway-u21s-date-with-dise-34987060.html

Galway COBO playing theirs but would like Shane Bennett and Austin at their best, 24 years is a long time to be waiting and would be heartbreaking if we had a ballyduff like incident w/pauric again

Going ahead as they should be.

seananigans

PTH2009 wrote: »

Suppose to be a good squad this year I've heard

What age is the youngest Mahony I think he's n 2nd or 3rd year,would he be involved at this level?

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Going ahead as they should be.

Can't say I agree with that, Gleeson and Shane Bennet will be played despite carrying knocks, delaying the club championshiop by a week or being fully prepared for an AI final, I know which one I'd pick , the only way this round of games will be remembered by anyone in a few years,if it's for all the worng reasons ,whereas no one will forget if we win on the 10th

cul beag

seananigans wrote: »

What age is the youngest Mahony I think he's n 2nd or 3rd year,would he be involved at this level?



Can't say I agree with that, Gleeson and Shane Bennet will be played despite carrying knocks, delaying the club championshiop by a week or being fully prepared for an AI final, I know which one I'd pick , the only way this round of games will be remembered by anyone in a few years,if it's for all the worng reasons ,whereas no one will forget if we win on the 10th

Tell that to the hundreds of club players who have been training all year and I heard of one club that has been training since February and has played one championship game in that time. How is that any use for the future of these clubs that are supplying these players to the county set up? By all means we want our county to be successful but there has to be a happy medium. The sooner the clubs make a stand about this the better. Realistically we are talking about 3 county teams holding up the whole club championship as more often than not all our football teams are knocked out early in the season. The 3 most successful counties in hurling all play their club championship games throughout the year so maybe there's something in that.

seananigans

cul beag wrote: »

Tell that to the hundreds of club players who have been training all year and I heard of one club that has been training since February and has played one championship game in that time. How is that any use for the future of these clubs that are supplying these players to the county set up? By all means we want our county to be successful but there has to be a happy medium. The sooner the clubs make a stand about this the better. Realistically we are talking about 3 county teams holding up the whole club championship as more often than not all our football teams are knocked out early in the season. The 3 most successful counties in hurling all play their club championship games throughout the year so maybe there's something in that.

we're talking one week not 6 months, after that the calender is wide open,this is a once in 24 year opportunity, even most club players should recognise that .

The blue blaa

seananigans wrote: »

What age is the youngest Mahony I think he's n 2nd or 3rd year,would he be involved at this level?



Can't say I agree with that, Gleeson and Shane Bennet will be played despite carrying knocks, delaying the club championshiop by a week or being fully prepared for an AI final, I know which one I'd pick , the only way this round of games will be remembered by anyone in a few years,if it's for all the worng reasons ,whereas no one will forget if we win on the 10th

You obviously never played hurling so..

robopaddy2

seananigans wrote: »

we're talking one week not 6 months, after that the calender is wide open,this is a once in 24 year opportunity, even most club players should recognise that .

Well no its not actually one week, it's another 3 weeks. there would be no club game played until the week of the 17th if your logic is anything to go by. The Munster club championships start around mid October and then what you ask the club players to sacrifice the opportunity to compete in that aswell just so the u21s can be wrapped in cotton wool for an extra few weeks. They've already been sitting on their holes all summer waiting to start their championship. If we were in the senior final it might be a different story, but its not and the show must go on. Get a round in this weekend then fair enough give the clubs with the u21 players a free weekend the following weekend. Shur someone can get injured in training just as easy anyway. Always easy to tell who are the genuine gaa people here and the county bandwagoners who don't give a hoot about the clubs (who actually produce all these county players btw)