Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 ***Updated Mod Note Post 1***

3ships

In 1998 we reached a National Final for the first time in 35 years. Since then we have qualified for the League Final at the relatively brisk rate of once every 8 and ½ years. We qualify for Munster every year and at least one of our teams are at the Munster Hurling Final every year since 2008. I'll take a league now, thanks.

Sundays final brings together the 1b winners of the last 2 years. Waterford's league form has been solid. Promotion clinically achieved, surpassing my own early season expectations of a dignified semi final exit. With the benefit of an extensive pre-season programme which improved fitness but more importantly system awareness. While impressive against Limerick the first day, there was some glitches. By the time we went to Wexford the team had German efficiency. Jack Guiney said after he just didn't think Waterford would be that good. Galway and Tipp felt similar.

Cork's league progress has relied on home advantages, 3 of 5 games at home and even one away game to Dublin was Croke not Parnell Park. Wins against Dublin, Galway, a troubled Clare and a home quarter final against Wexford hardly stack up as impressive considering ultimate failure against the Cats and Tipp.

The Cork team has set up to win the midfield battle. A slight adjustment there with Rob O Shea preferred in the midfield rather than say pebbles near the goals. Lehane roving to cover the space. This is a compliment to Waterford. Don't know if the Cork FB change is due injury but it's a test for anyone to have Maurice Shanahan and Colin Dunford and Bennett rotating in front of you. A test Barry Coughlan has to deal with most nights in training just in case anyone was worried he had more protection than Barack Obama.

Much like the return of flights to London and jobs to Baush and Lomb, Waterford Hurling team has gained positive headlines but in reality its just a return to the norm. Dan Shanahan spoke this week of a clean bill of health, something all teams need to sustain a campaign. Despite the constant reference to the 2013 minors, it's been returning players and the return to form of more senior players that have driven the renaissance. However you do think that the young lads arrival has brought some urgency to the matter. They're coming alright.

For a lot of observers, Waterford's form has been due to either; the opposition missing players, not turning up, our defensive systems or indeed Waterford 'targeting' the league. Regardless of the excuses this is a big game for Waterford, one I think they will win. For Cork if the league doesn't matter then last weeks football decider was just shadow boxing was it.

deiseach

Damn, I've got something in my eye . . . stop it, 3ships, stop it!

thinkstoomuch1

Look just show I'm not taking cork down to just do yerra
I said cork football playing donegal league cork would win but be false dawn said it all week game cork thread and then half time cork level donegal fade away as I know yes my unpopular view put me as easy critse and many felt cork were awesome
All I was doing was speaking realism that Dublin proved Sunday and Gallagher said after donegal zero interest


I call it as I see it whether cork or not
Cork yes will show more intent donegal however not be end all cork and I can understand waterford lack success last few years makes fan crave glory fair enough but imo craving so much in some view cork as total up Sunday and will be true test them no it won't
June is d day
Jbm know munster titles mean nothing to cork now and yes league was target start fact waterford twice he will try win cork off full tilt if so great but if not he knows cork have more as that game only aim June as win that cork won't care bt munster but all Ireland series

If means cork have risk sacrificing league title for all Ireland so be it
Waterford on other hand going in qualifiers not that bad them but cork year four qualifiers be a disaster
All Ireland series is corks aim as three games then
Waterford will require I admit more from cork though start year win June but cork yes talk talk Sunday but it's not high priority as landscape changed since tipp beaten

thinkstoomuch1

3ships wrote: »

In 1998 we reached a National Final for the first time in 35 years. Since then we have qualified for the League Final at the relatively brisk rate of once every 8 and ½ years. We qualify for Munster every year and at least one of our teams are at the Munster Hurling Final every year since 2008. I'll take a league now, thanks.

Sundays final brings together the 1b winners of the last 2 years. Waterford's league form has been solid. Promotion clinically achieved, surpassing my own early season expectations of a dignified semi final exit. With the benefit of an extensive pre-season programme which improved fitness but more importantly system awareness. While impressive against Limerick the first day, there was some glitches. By the time we went to Wexford the team had German efficiency. Jack Guiney said after he just didn't think Waterford would be that good. Galway and Tipp felt similar.

Cork's league progress has relied on home advantages, 3 of 5 games at home and even one away game to Dublin was Croke not Parnell Park. Wins against Dublin, Galway, a troubled Clare and a home quarter final against Wexford hardly stack up as impressive considering ultimate failure against the Cats and Tipp.

The Cork team has set up to win the midfield battle. A slight adjustment there with Rob O Shea preferred in the midfield rather than say pebbles near the goals. Lehane roving to cover the space. This is a compliment to Waterford. Don't know if the Cork FB change is due injury but it's a test for anyone to have Maurice Shanahan and Colin Dunford and Bennett rotating in front of you. A test Barry Coughlan has to deal with most nights in training just in case anyone was worried he had more protection than Barack Obama.

Much like the return of flights to London and jobs to Baush and Lomb, Waterford Hurling team has gained positive headlines but in reality its just a return to the norm. Dan Shanahan spoke this week of a clean bill of health, something all teams need to sustain a campaign. Despite the constant reference to the 2013 minors, it's been returning players and the return to form of more senior players that have driven the renaissance. However you do think that the young lads arrival has brought some urgency to the matter. They're coming alright.

For a lot of observers, Waterford's form has been due to either; the opposition missing players, not turning up, our defensive systems or indeed Waterford 'targeting' the league. Regardless of the excuses this is a big game for Waterford, one I think they will win. For Cork if the league doesn't matter then last weeks football decider was just shadow boxing was it.

Huge huge difference in cork football was midfield wasn't tried be solved where cork went out win where cork trying solve full back

And cork are not meeting Dublin twice and won't be around long enough play then in summer
Also key difference is cork have crumbling defeats to Dublin and kerry
Three humiliation
Cork hurling had systematic melt down v tipp last year but have shown be top four team and management some what proven
Football management hsve done nothing and were awful as Waterford beat them mcgrath cup
Same team less month you have no choice but to shadow box
Look at cork minor v limerick imo won but there will be at least three changes if play limerick again as had hold back bit

I actually think Waterford minors have good chance Wednesday to win as same panel limerick bar Mccarthy kilmallock called up

Mountainlad

TTM, championship is not being played Sunday. Nobody in Waterford is thinking about June on Sunday and rightly so. The game is a stand alone game, its got no relevance to June. The two teams might learn something about each other and themselves but Cork 'sacrificing' the league will not even slightly aid there championship ambitions.

From your perspective, Waterford wouldn't mind going into the qualifiers. I assure you that view is not shared by the players. Whether Cork have to win in June by your estimation will not matter to the Waterford players.

As I said when you were dooming Waterford to a heavy defeat in June, the games is being played in June. Today is the first of May. We'll talk about that game in June, when there are less variables such as players get injured between now in then to be brought into the equation.

For now, I think Waterford will win on Sunday.

thinkstoomuch1

Mountainlad wrote: »

TTM, championship is not being played Sunday. Nobody in Waterford is thinking about June on Sunday and rightly so. The game is a stand alone game, its got no relevance to June. The two teams might learn something about each other and themselves but Cork 'sacrificing' the league will not even slightly aid there championship ambitions.

From your perspective, Waterford wouldn't mind going into the qualifiers. I assure you that view is not shared by the players. Whether Cork have to win in June by your estimation will not matter to the Waterford players.

As I said when you were dooming Waterford to a heavy defeat in June, the games is being played in June. Today is the first of May. We'll talk about that game in June, when there are less variables such as players get injured between now in then to be brought into the equation.

For now, I think Waterford will win on Sunday.

Some valid points be fair and I do fully agree waterford will win Sunday my point all along.

Deise_2012

But I can't understand what are Cork holding back? I'm just repeating what Mountainlad is saying.....resting Cahalane due to injury? He is an average full back at best, Cork had to move him to the half back line against Limerick last year and they left Shane O'Neill pick up Callanan in the AI semi final......So he doesn't make any difference come June

If Nash and Eilis are doubts, why risk playing them Sunday? It's only the league sure, Championship is more important

O'Farrell is a windy hurler exactly, Paudie O'Sullivan is decent yeah, but they're not going to make much difference in June

Personally I have no idea how you can use this argument about Cork holding back hahaha come off it like

We could talk about Darragh Fives or Steven Daniels, the former being better than any defender in Cork, are we holding him back? Nope

thinkstoomuch1

Deise_2012 wrote: »

But I can't understand what are Cork holding back? I'm just repeating what Mountainlad is saying.....resting Cahalane due to injury? He is an average full back at best, Cork had to move him to the half back line against Limerick last year and they left Shane O'Neill pick up Callanan in the AI semi final......So he doesn't make any difference come June

If Nash and Eilis are doubts, why risk playing them Sunday? It's only the league sure, Championship is more important

O'Farrell is a windy hurler exactly, Paudie O'Sullivan is decent yeah, but they're not going to make much difference in June

Personally I have no idea how you can use this argument about Cork holding back hahaha come off it like

We could talk about Darragh Fives or Steven Daniels, the former being better than any defender in Cork, are we holding him back? Nope

Cahalane was brilliant v Waterford twice and ye have no players like dowling or indeed Callan
Cahalane taken off as foot injury v limerick
Ellis Murphy need game time
Nash imo would not be starting bar no novice full back you need leadership Nash as Collins awesome but understanding imo not yet leadership senior Nash to have presence command square

Last thing Ryan needs Sunday conceded four goal

Mountainlad

Would thing I would disagree with there, Paudie O Sullivan has an impact everytime I see him play. Maybe hes better off the bench, but I would see him as a threat. Other than that, spot on.

Deise_2012

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Cahalane was brilliant v Waterford twice and ye have no players like dowling or indeed Callan
Cahalane taken off as foot injury v limerick
Ellis Murphy need game time
Nash imo would not be starting bar no novice full back you need leadership Nash as Collins awesome but understanding imo not yet leadership senior Nash to have presence command square

Last thing Ryan needs Sunday conceded four goal

He wasn't brilliant v Waterford twice. He did nothing in the first game, Dillon and Gleeson took him for a few scores. The second game Waterford's tactics were very bad, so he was under no pressure what so ever. If putting Shane O'Neill full back is the answer everytime Cahalane comes up against a top class player, what good is he? Shanahan isn't as high profile as Dowling or Callanan, but put good ball his way in June, Shane O'Neill will be getting the call into full back after 20mins.

thinkstoomuch1

Deise_2012 wrote: »

He wasn't brilliant v Waterford twice. He did nothing in the first game, Dillon and Gleeson took him for a few scores. The second game Waterford's tactics were very bad, so he was under no pressure what so ever. If putting Shane O'Neill full back is the answer everytime Cahalane comes up against a top class player, what good is he? Shanahan isn't as high profile as Dowling or Callanan, but put good ball his way in June, Shane O'Neill will be getting the call into full back after 20mins.

Totally agree you on o Neill never was a full back

I'd say and hope Ryan if struggle Ryan centre back Ellis three
Ryan I think deserves chance
We'll you agree tactics waterford mcgrath were poor last year this year good test has he learned

Fair play if he has good test in June for him

thinkstoomuch1

Deise_2012 wrote: »

He wasn't brilliant v Waterford twice. He did nothing in the first game, Dillon and Gleeson took him for a few scores. The second game Waterford's tactics were very bad, so he was under no pressure what so ever. If putting Shane O'Neill full back is the answer everytime Cahalane comes up against a top class player, what good is he? Shanahan isn't as high profile as Dowling or Callanan, but put good ball his way in June, Shane O'Neill will be getting the call into full back after 20mins.

I hsve huge huge respect for Shanahan and and in I'm glad man back playing hurling but as you say dowling and Callan better

Shanahan will win ball but goals way dowling would etc I don't think he get as many but I'll be honest if he did as much pains me see cork loose goals I'd get some joy fact Shanahan scored them as I have huge respect him wish him nothing but the best he's hurling bar Sunday course
I have huge respect for dan also player and while coaching it's early to judge a terrific player I hsve huge admiration for he's hunger drive to score big days and many times beat rock so you hsve to admire him

Deise_2012

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I hsve huge huge respect for Shanahan and and in I'm glad man back playing hurling but as you say dowling and Callan better

Shanahan will win ball but goals way dowling would etc I don't think he get as many but I'll be honest if he did as much pains me see cork loose goals I'd get some joy fact Shanahan scored them as I have huge respect him wish him nothing but the best he's hurling bar Sunday course
I have huge respect for dan also player and while coaching it's early to judge a terrific player I hsve huge admiration for he's hunger drive to score big days and many times beat rock so you hsve to admire him

I think the problem many of us (me included) is that we expected too much of Maurice from a young age. Dan himself didn't start performing until 2004 after making the debut in 1997. Maurice has had bad luck with injuries and some personal problems in the last few years so best of luck to him he seems to be enjoying his hurling again

deiseach

I was going to Google to search for an image related to 'huge'.

I've thought better of it.

thinkstoomuch1

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I think the problem many of us (me included) is that we expected too much of Maurice from a young age. Dan himself didn't start performing until 2004 after making the debut in 1997. Maurice has had bad luck with injuries and some personal problems in the last few years so best of luck to him he seems to be enjoying his hurling again

Any hurling fan or even not hurling man imo I'd say would wish Maurice nothing but the best
I hope he has brilliant hurling year bar Sunday but if so no problem sheering a moment joy him
I have nothing but respect and admiration for him.

HatchetMan7

Ellis and Murphy not fully fit yet JBM starting them on Sunday. He wants to win the league badly enough he's willing to risk them injuring further and be out for the championship 4 weeks later.

The blue blaa

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Cork team starts Sunday won't start championship and cork have least four with injury so imo will not be full pelt
Lehane won't play roaming role championship but tried out for Sunday
There's a bit shadow boxing no doubt from cork

Waterford team that starts Sunday will not be our championship 15 either and we also have at least about 4 injured or returning namely Fives, Daniels, Barrett, plus you could also argue same for both Bennetts. It's much is much simple as, now that's out there lets hope we see an entertaining game, goals win games that's the only thing will sway it Sunday

KevIRL

Stephen O’Keeffe
Ballygunner
2.
Shane Fives
Tourin
3.
Barry Coughlan
Ballygunner
4.
Noel Connors
Passage
5.
Tadhg de Búrca
Clashmore Kinsalebeg
6.
Austin Gleeson
Mount S ion
7.
Philip Mahony
Ballygunner
8.
Jamie Barron
Fourmilewater
21.
Maurice Shanahan
Lismore
10.
Kevin Moran
De La Salle
11.
Pauric Mahony
Ballygunner
12.
Jake Dillon
De La Salle
22.
Stephen Bennett
Ballysaggart
14.
Michael Walsh
Stradbally
15.
Colin Dunford
Colligan

Cornerstoner

KevIRL wrote: »

Stephen O’Keeffe
Ballygunner
2.
Shane Fives
Tourin
3.
Barry Coughlan
Ballygunner
4.
Noel Connors
Passage
5.
Tadhg de Búrca
Clashmore Kinsalebeg
6.
Austin Gleeson
Mount S ion
7.
Philip Mahony
Ballygunner
8.
Jamie Barron
Fourmilewater
21.
Maurice Shanahan
Lismore
10.
Kevin Moran
De La Salle
11.
Pauric Mahony
Ballygunner
12.
Jake Dillon
De La Salle
22.
Stephen Bennett
Ballysaggart
14.
Michael Walsh
Stradbally
15.
Colin Dunford
Colligan

Why do we always have to name dummy teams? As has been the norm in all the games so far I don't expect the 15 named prior to the match to start. Same thing under Davy. I don't see anything been gained from it. You never see Cody do it with Kilkenny

KevIRL

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Why do we always have to name dummy teams? As has been the norm in all the games so far I don't expect the 15 named prior to the match to start. Same thing under Davy. I don't see anything been gained from it. You never see Cody do it with Kilkenny

That will be the 15 to start I'd say, but a good few positional changes

Mountainlad

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Why do we always have to name dummy teams? As has been the norm in all the games so far I don't expect the 15 named prior to the match to start. Same thing under Davy. I don't see anything been gained from it. You never see Cody do it with Kilkenny

Who do you reckon will start, O'Halloran?

Cornerstoner

Mountainlad wrote: »

Who do you reckon will start, O'Halloran?

Ya I can't see Bennett starting. Edit: I dont think Bennett should start he just doesn't look 100% fit and the game plan doesn't suit him either. O'Halloran def deserves to start ya

Mountainlad

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Ya I can't see Bennett starting. O'Halloran def deserves to start ya

I watched back the match the other day and thought Bennett was super in the first half to be honest. If anyone was to be dropped it would be Dillon for me.

Cornerstoner

Mountainlad wrote: »

I watched back the match the other day and thought Bennett was super in the first half to be honest. If anyone was to be dropped it would be Dillon for me.

Would agree with you on Dillon tho he has upped it over the last few games to be fair to him

TyrionPower

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Totally agree you on o Neill never was a full back

I'd say and hope Ryan if struggle Ryan centre back Ellis three
Ryan I think deserves chance
We'll you agree tactics waterford mcgrath were poor last year this year good test has he learned

Fair play if he has good test in June for him

What's ryan like as a defender? Strengths, etc

PTH2009

I have a feeling cork will start with a different team than listed and we will start listed

Why would they start a rookie full back in a final . I'd put Stephen Bennett on him he's our best full forward at the min

archieknox

Cornerstoner wrote: »

Ya I can't see Bennett starting. Edit: I dont think Bennett should start he just doesn't look 100% fit and the game plan doesn't suit him either. O'Halloran def deserves to start ya

He's still more a danger than O Halloran. He's an opportunist,a lethal finisher and is an all round better hurler to be fair. O Halloran should start instead of Dillon but im not going down that route again. I have more than made my views clear on him ages ago!! Rumours around the town today that there are 1 or 2 changes but we'll wait and see.

Cornerstoner

archieknox wrote: »

He's still more a danger than O Halloran. He's an opportunist,a lethal finisher and is an all round better hurler to be fair. O Halloran should start instead of Dillon but im not going down that route again. I have more than made my views clear on him ages ago!! Rumours around the town today that there are 1 or 2 changes but we'll wait and see.

No questioning his ability at all, everyone in the county knows his pedigree. A fully fit Stephen Bennett is almost unplayable. But having him isolated on his own in the full forward line does not get the best out of him. Especially when he's not moving at 100%

The blue blaa

Ah lads seriously now, talking bout dropping Dillon again?? Do ye go to the games at all?
The chap is putting in some shifts watch the formation and watch what he does, Eddie Brennan singled him out for it after tipp game, i rate O'Halloran but would rather Dillon any day

Mountainlad

The blue blaa wrote: »

Ah lads seriously now, talking bout dropping Dillon again?? Do ye go to the games at all?
The chap is putting in some shifts watch the formation and watch what he does, Eddie Brennan singled him out for it after tipp game, i rate O'Halloran but would rather Dillon any day

Thought he'd been good up to the last day but wasn't convinced by him to be honest. There's competition there for places now which is good to see.