Netanyahu Calls On World To Halt Iran's March Of Conquest And Terror

wes

Icepick wrote: »

Well what about them?
Do you agree with how the Palestinians handle their justice system?

Well, seeing as your answer amounts to well "Hamas does this", as if that somehow disproves anything being said, its rather silly way to deny things. The actions of Hamas don't give Israel a pass or vice versa. You do seem intent on ignoring the actions of Israel imho.

Timberrrrrrrr

Icepick wrote: »

Well what about them?
Do you agree with how the Palestinians handle their justice system?

Is it any worse than the American or Saudi way? Indeed the IDF seem to jail an extremely disproportionate amount of Ethiopians compared to any other demographic.

Nodin

Icepick wrote: »

So no apartheid system in Israel. Glad to have that cleared up.
As for palestinian territories, the Hamas justice system is indeed despicable.

Hamas justice system 'reeks of injustice,' rights group says
[URL]Http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/03/world/meast/gaza-hamas-abuses/index.html[/URL]

Israel runs an apartheid regime.

The West Bank..Golan..Arab East Jerusalem? Have you forgotten about them?

Icepick wrote: »

Well what about them?

You were asked about them in the context of the above.

Icepick

Nodin wrote: »

Israel runs an apartheid regime.

The West Bank..Golan..Arab East Jerusalem? Have you forgotten about them?



You were asked about them in the context of the above.

Still 0 evidence posted. Treating people who are not Israeli citizens differently does not an apartheid system make.

Brian Shanahan

Icepick wrote: »

Still 0 evidence posted.

No. Just like when creatards ignore and deny the mountains of evidence which disprove their pet delusions, you ignore and deny the mountains of evidence which disprove yours.

Just because you believe something is not happening, it does not follow that the thing is not happening.

Nodin

Icepick wrote: »

Still 0 evidence posted. Treating people who are not Israeli citizens differently does not an apartheid system make.

Dear o dear o dear - you realise that there are Israeli citizens living in the same area who receive better treatment? That's why it can likened to apartheid.

If Israel runs an apartheid style system outside Israel, then - yes - Israel runs an apartheid system.

JRant

Icepick wrote: »

Well what about them?
Do you agree with how the Palestinians handle their justice system?

That's quite a statement to make.

What about them you ask?
They are real and tangible examples of Apartheid in action.

There are many many issues that need to be addressed before even thinking of reforming their legal system.

How would you handle the legal system there?
Considering the fact that they are a completely and comprehensively oppressed people. How would you fiddle while Rome burns around you?

Nodin

JRant wrote: »

That's quite a statement to make.

What about them you ask?
They are real and tangible examples of Apartheid in action.

There are many many issues that need to be addressed before even thinking of reforming their legal system.

How would you handle the legal system there?
Considering the fact that they are a completely and comprehensively oppressed people. How would you fiddle while Rome burns around you?

At gunpoint, I'd imagine
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4043299.stm

cerastes

Icepick wrote: »

Well what about them?
Do you agree with how the Palestinians handle their justice system?

I see it was answered by the time I got to this point but what has that got to do with anything, isn't that a hams problem, no one claimed it isn't a problem.

Nodin wrote: »

At gunpoint, I'd imagine
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4043299.stm

Israel reminds me of Nazi germany, violent thuggery, belligerent to those it doesn't like, lacking compassion or anything near to it, threatening war and death, except Nazi Germany only lasted for 12 years, unless something serious is done to reform their attitudes they are making themselves targets and eventually something bad will come of it for them and the region, it undermines any good that may have come from them or their country, they seem to have a militant lack of concern how this has them viewed. I've read that many Israelis keep dual nationality with the US, you'd wonder what for?

I hope he played some tune the soldiers may have recognised, something that might have had some irony in it.
There's a memorable one from shindlers list.

20Cent

Anyone else find it weird that the republicans welcome this guy into the senate and give him standing ovations while he slags off the president?
Remember if anyone said anything about bush they hated America and should at least respect the office.

wes

Icepick wrote: »

Still 0 evidence posted. Treating people who are not Israeli citizens differently does not an apartheid system make.

Except that is actually does. The South African apartheid regime decided to declare indigenous South African's as citizens of Bantustan's, so as to make the exact claim your making, that they were really citizens. The fact is that Israel rules over the Palestinians in the West Bank, while imprisoning those in Gaza will help from a murderous military junta in Egypt.

Also, when Bishop Tutu calls it Apartheid, you can be sure its Aparthied, as I think it fair to say that the man know a thing or 2 about Apartheid:

Tutu condemns Israeli 'apartheid'

wes

20Cent wrote: »

Anyone else find it weird that the republicans welcome this guy into the senate and give him standing ovations while he slags off the president?
Remember if anyone said anything about bush they hated America and should at least respect the office.

Well, there clearly massive war mongering hypocrites. Not to mention the fact that you also have US Republican Senators, basically saying to Iran that they plan to go back on there agreement first chance they get, which basically means that any deal with the US are worthless. Bizarre that the Obama hasn't taken these guys to task as if I was making a deal with the US now, I would be very skeptical about them holding to any deal, what with the other party threatening to renege the 1st chance they get.

Timberrrrrrrr

wes wrote: »

Well, there clearly massive war mongering hypocrites. Not to mention the fact that you also have US Republican Senators, basically saying to Iran that they plan to go back on there agreement first chance they get, which basically means that any deal with the US are worthless. Bizarre that the Obama hasn't taken these guys to task as if I was making a deal with the US now, I would be very skeptical about them holding to any deal, what with the other party threatening to renege the 1st chance they get.

They are saying they will but won't be allowed to.

Nodin

The polls suggest Likud may be on the way out, but unfortunately I fear it won't put a stop to this

"Ten years after the publication of Adv. Talya Sasson's Outpost Report, Israeli human rights organization Yesh Din, in cooperation with the Rights Forum, exposes a dramatic shift in Israel's policy on illegal outposts. Since 2011, alongside the official, well-known track for government approval and advancement of building plans in the settlements, Israel has been advancing the establishment of new settlements and expanding the areas under its control in the West Bank using a secret parallel track of retroactively approving dozens of illegal outposts, sparing no effort along the way.

Currently, approximately a quarter of the outposts (25 out of about 100 outposts in the West Bank) have either been approved or are undergoing approval processes, pursued under government instructions."
http://www.yesh-din.org/postview.asp?postid=299

For Reals

Icepick wrote: »

Again, where is the evidence showing a genocide, intended and in practice? Do you even know what the word means?

I believe Israel is actively trying to wipe the Palestinians off the map. Based on the constant slaughter of its people and constant ongoing annexation of Palestinian land. We have shown these acts to be fact. The intent? My opinion based on Israeli actions. But it's not genocide in progress until Israel calls it such?

Nodin

Just as a personal observation, I find the term "ethnic cleansing" more appropriate.

BlaasForRafa

For Reals wrote: »

I believe Israel is actively trying to wipe the Palestinians off the map. Based on the constant slaughter of its people and constant ongoing annexation of Palestinian land. We have shown these acts to be fact. The intent? My opinion based on Israeli actions. But it's not genocide in progress until Israel calls it such?

If Israel are intent on wiping out the palestinians as you say, then they're doing a really bad job of it aren't they? You do realise that the population of Gaza actually increased during operation protective edge last year? And if Israel can just barely affect the palesinian population growth during a war how do you propose that they are going do it going forward?

cerastes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

If Israel are intent on wiping out the palestinians as you say, then they're doing a really bad job of it aren't they? You do realise that the population of Gaza actually increased during operation protective edge last year? And if Israel can just barely affect the palesinian population growth during a war how do you propose that they are going do it going forward?

The manner in which Israel target then Palestinians is a protracted and concerted campaign that prevents any kind of longterm growth or stability of the Palestinian states, its a gradual and incremental push, with shoves every now and again and a good kicking thrown in for good measure. This suits the Israeli agenda as the situation means its likely to radicalise Palestinians furthering the Israeli agenda when they decide not to take it and gives them further proof to wave around when it occurs. Eventually the Palestinians will be completely pushed out and marginalised where any kind of state is unviable. Israel ignores The UN has not signed any agreements regarding nuclear non ploriferation, yet paradoxically insists Iran must? That's just on example of their two facedness, no one is spared in their goal to further themselves, not even their best allies, whom they will shoot at, steal from and who knows how much further. Israel is a rogue state, I'm sure there are good people there, but a militancy such as theirs stemmed from the reasons that state was founded, without the cooperation of those that already were in occupation of that land.
Strange how Israel, the state formed so recently by the UN gets to ignore the UN when it suits their own agenda?

Eventually if not already with the encroachment into the occupied territories in violation of the UN, a Palestinian state is practically not possible, least of all where a foreign army occupies and controls the land and does what it likes there.

BlaasForRafa

Nice speech. That wasn't the question I asked.

cerastes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Nice speech. That wasn't the question I asked.

Isn't it? Population growth matters nothing if they have no state where they make their own decisions where those children and people can grow live and prosper if every effort of Israel is to undermine any advancement of Palestinians. Population growth doesn't matter if the quality of life, their education and well being aren't given any consideration, worse than that. Every opportunity is made to steal land belonging to them, contrary to and in complete defiance of What the UN says?
That and the ongoing harrasment and interference in Palestinians lives and human rights.
Palestinians live where they exist on subsistence levels of absolute basic needs if even that, the Israeli state doesn't want them dragging themselves out of that hole, and the longer it goes on where the constant chipping away of their land and rights suits the Israeli agenda if they go more quietly. Of course that's not relevant to you. The Palestinians managed to pop out a few more babies? Maybe the Israelis weren't actively shooting babies in the faces that month with artillery, you do realise babies don't just pop out, there is a gestation period, are you suggesting they plan their births around israeli stockpiling of white phosphorus and 155mm shells? That's probably not a bad idea for the palestinians to track though.

BlaasForRafa

So you agree that there is no genocide then?

cerastes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

So you agree that there is no genocide then?

That wasnt the question I asked!?

I never said genocide, you seem to be a bit uncertain about what genocide is? Or whom said it?

What is it you think genocide is?

Icepick

Nodin wrote: »

Dear o dear o dear - you realise that there are Israeli citizens living in the same area who receive better treatment? That's why it can likened to apartheid.

If Israel runs an apartheid style system outside Israel, then - yes - Israel runs an apartheid system.

By those standards, which country doesn't run an apartheid system?
Ireland?
EU as whole?

Icepick

For Reals wrote: »

I believe Israel is actively trying to wipe the Palestinians off the map. Based on the constant slaughter of its people and constant ongoing annexation of Palestinian land. We have shown these acts to be fact. The intent? My opinion based on Israeli actions. But it's not genocide in progress until Israel calls it such?

So a country with one of the most advanced and strongest armies in the world, which is also a nuclear power, is committing a genocide and all it achieved is a steadily rising Palestinian population in both Israel & Palestine and Palestine itself?

Israel & Palestine population:



Israel population:


It's also interesting to realize that Palestinians in Israel have more rights and opportunities than Palestinians in neighbouring Arab countries.

Timberrrrrrrr

Icepick wrote: »

By those standards, which country doesn't run an apartheid system?
Ireland?
EU as whole?

Care to name a public road in Ireland that only allows a certain people travel it?

Gringo180

Icepick can you not see what Israel is doing is wrong? They are building illegal settlements on an other peoples land. Do you think I would get away with building a house in your back garden?

Nodin

Icepick wrote: »

By those standards, which country doesn't run an apartheid system?
Ireland?
EU as whole?

Being silly and disengenous there I'm afraid.

JRant

Icepick wrote: »

So a country with one of the most advanced and strongest armies in the world, which is also a nuclear power, is committing a genocide and all it achieved is a steadily rising Palestinian population in both Israel & Palestine and Palestine itself?

Israel & Palestine population:



Israel population:


It's also interesting to realize that Palestinians in Israel have more rights and opportunities than Palestinians in neighbouring Arab countries.

It's a rogue nuclear power.

Take a look at the demographic of the Palestinian population. A large proportion of its population are children.
If you're an adult male living their the probability of a early death is quite high.

cerastes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

So you agree that there is no genocide then?

I didn't say genocide, but if you look up the definition and what the ECHR says and what other definitions say, it appears that there is a genocide taking place.

A coordinated and systematic plan to eliminate a national identity, does not mean people have to be pushed into a gas chamber for it to happen, even an increasing birth rate doesn't mean it isnt happening anyway, in many cases, birth rate increases in war or when a population is under threat either intentionally, or as a natural response.
Wikipedia while usually rounded on gives a fairly thorough condensed explanation, see intent to destroy and stages, read that and you can see parallels in the Israel/Palestinian situation.

Gringo180

I see the Israeli navy have blown a few Palestinian fishermens boats to pieces today for, wait for it..... Fishing in Palestinian waters. Amazingly nobody was killed in the attack.