Netanyahu Calls On World To Halt Iran's March Of Conquest And Terror

Icepick

cerastes wrote: »

Yes, it was thoroughly stamped out and when legitimate or moderate options are eliminated, its hardly a surprise what comes next is more cruel and brutal at each incarnation. Iran at least presents a view of stability in the region, or are shahs and wandering executioners better suited to other nations agendas?

Iran is the very example of instability in the region as its regime is fuelling the civil war between Sunni and Shia. It's waging a proxy war against Saudi Arabia and its allies.
It's also supporting the genocidal aspirations of Israel's enemies.

Timberrrrrrrr

Icepick wrote: »

Iran is the very example of instability in the region as its regime is fuelling the civil war between Sunni and Shia. It's waging a proxy war against Saudi Arabia and its allies.
It's also supporting the genocidal aspirations of Israel's enemies.

And in the meantime Saudi Arabia are bankrolling ISIS and paying for mosques all over the world where people are being radicalized. Saudi is waging and indeed funding a proxy war against the west but they are seen as the good guys :rolleyes:

Timberrrrrrrr

Icepick wrote: »

Because the world has changed.

So are you claiming that western governments are no longer having democratically elected governments removed to suit their own needs?

Mr.Micro

Karl Stein wrote: »

All this Netenyahu rhetoric isn't really about Iran's non-existent nukes but Israel preserving its theatre dominance. Netenyahu wants the sanctions retained to prevent Iran from developing into the pre-eminent regional power. The more Iran develops as a regional power the less Israel can knock the **** out of its neighbours without consequences.

Even if Iran did have a nuke the idea they would commit 'nuclear suicide' by attacking Israel with it is absolute fantasy.

His speech was to the Republican warmonger faithful, who probably can't wait for another big war in the region, and all that money to be made again. Destroy, rebuild, the same old story.Netanyahu will do anything to stay in power and gripes on the same old story, Iran, Iran Iran. It just happens to be election time as well...

Madd Finn

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

Netanyahu Calls On World To Halt March Of Conquest And Terror

I guess the irony of Aithníonn ciaróg, ciaróg eile would be lost on Bibi.

Icepick

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And in the meantime Saudi Arabia are bankrolling ISIS and paying for mosques all over the world where people are being radicalized. Saudi is waging and indeed funding a proxy war against the west but they are seen as the good guys :rolleyes:

Saudia Arabia is the other big power in the Shia Sunni civil war. Its fascist religious regime should be overthrown as well.

Saudi Arabia are bankrolling ISIS is a bull**** statement though.

Icepick

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So are you claiming that western governments are no longer having democratically elected governments removed to suit their own needs?

So are you claiming they are?

Timberrrrrrrr

Icepick wrote: »

So are you claiming they are?

Venezuala

Icepick

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Venezuala

not sure if serious

Just a little Samba

Icepick wrote: »

not sure if serious

The 2002 coup d'état attempt just happened to be carried out by organisatons and individuals who were trained by and were lining their pockets with money from US agencues like the National Endowment for Democracy and Department of Defence.

sparksfly

Icepick wrote: »

So are you claiming they are?

Ukraine is probably the most recent.

Brian Shanahan

R P McMurphy wrote: »

use nuclear weapons on them before they develop nuclear capabilities and use them without the slightest hint of irony

So you want to kill over 100m innocent people and turn nearly half the world against you, on the off-chance that an evil madman is correct, and not just talking ****e to play to his bases in the US and Israel (the far-right, anti-islamic racists)? Even though the evidence conclusively proves that he is talking through his arse.

Yeah, that'll end well.

Brian Shanahan

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The Iraq War was won by General Petreus's Surge.

Wrong. The Iraq war was lost when Shrub refused point blank to back Gen. Jay Garner's plan for a "big tent" constitutional convention followed by democratic elections within ninenty days of the "Mission Accomplished". Garner was appointed as the first US governor of Iraq for two reasons, a) he knew the country and its peoples, and b) he was trusted by all the leading factions in Iraq. His plan to get everybody together to plan out a federal constitution for the new Iraq and quickly follow that with national elections for a new soverign government was nixed because of two reasons, it would mean that the Bush regime* wouldn't be able to push its preferred strategy re oil (at this stage there were still two competing strategies for Iraq's oil the pro-OPEC turn off the oilwells strategy of the state department and the oil cos, and the anti-OPEC turn up oil production and give it away free to the US oil cos strategy of the pentagon, PNAC & Cheney. Shrub eventually plopped down on the anti-OPEC side) nor give away sweetheard deals to it's supporters in US industry (at this stage Cheney still hadn't sold his Halliburton shares a direct contravention of US law which should have seen him permanently excluded from office, but then again he was part of the regime which stole two elections, a treason which under US law should have had his life forfeited twice. Guess who won the largest, most corrupt contract for "reconstruction" in Iraq?)

And they replaced him with the idiotic Paul Bremer, who wrote the undemocratic, anti-democratic and anti-Iraqi constitution, who disbanded the army while letting the soldiers walk away with their guns and explosives, and under whose aegis the sectarian friction got so bad that a civil war (of which ISIS are simply the latest manifestation) started and Al-Qaeda got their first foot in the door in Iraq. So Bush was the cause of ISIS.

Note to anyone: I know the poster I'm addressing is banned, and will probably never read this post. I am simply exposing his fantasy for what it is for other readers.

* As noted above, the Shrub ticket managed to steal two elections through gerrymandering, vote stealing, racist denial of votes to US citizens and other repulsive methods. Because of this double coup d'etat I'll never call their dictatorship a government.

Sand

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Wrong. The Iraq war was lost when Shrub refused point blank to back Gen. Jay Garner's plan for a "big tent" constitutional convention followed by democratic elections within ninenty days of the "Mission Accomplished". Garner was appointed as the first US governor of Iraq for two reasons, a) he knew the country and its peoples, and b) he was trusted by all the leading factions in Iraq. His plan to get everybody together to plan out a federal constitution for the new Iraq and quickly follow that with national elections for a new soverign government was nixed because of two reasons, it would mean that the Bush regime* wouldn't be able to push its preferred strategy re oil (at this stage there were still two competing strategies for Iraq's oil the pro-OPEC turn off the oilwells strategy of the state department and the oil cos, and the anti-OPEC turn up oil production and give it away free to the US oil cos strategy of the pentagon, PNAC & Cheney. Shrub eventually plopped down on the anti-OPEC side) nor give away sweetheard deals to it's supporters in US industry (at this stage Cheney still hadn't sold his Halliburton shares a direct contravention of US law which should have seen him permanently excluded from office, but then again he was part of the regime which stole two elections, a treason which under US law should have had his life forfeited twice. Guess who won the largest, most corrupt contract for "reconstruction" in Iraq?)

The worst, absolute worst thing you can do in a country ruled by division, brutality and terror is introduce national elections early.

There is a power vacuum, so you introduce a competition to seize control of the state between communities and political groups that despise and fear each other. And you do this without any time or effort expended on building confidence between the communities or establishing security and rule of law. Iraq hadn't experienced genuine elections or rule of law in 30 years and you think throwing them into bitter political struggle for life and death is going to bring good results?

Bremer made some huge errors, but trying to undo 30 years of dictatorship in 90 days and expecting a peaceful transition of power is just naive.

Even in West Germany, which didn't have the same sectarian tensions as Iraq and which had at least some experience of democracy and rule of law elections were not held until 1949, 4 years after "Mission Accomplished".

cerastes

Sand wrote: »

The worst, absolute worst thing you can do in a country ruled by division, brutality and terror is introduce national elections early.

There is a power vacuum, so you introduce a competition to seize control of the state between communities and political groups that despise and fear each other. And you do this without any time or effort expended on building confidence between the communities or establishing security and rule of law. Iraq hadn't experienced genuine elections or rule of law in 30 years and you think throwing them into bitter political struggle for life and death is going to bring good results?

Bremer made some huge errors, but trying to undo 30 years of dictatorship in 90 days and expecting a peaceful transition of power is just naive.

Even in West Germany, which didn't have the same sectarian tensions as Iraq and which had at least some experience of democracy and rule of law elections were not held until 1949, 4 years after "Mission Accomplished".

And not ever being possible in 90 days, the worst thing that was ever done was disbanding the Iraqi army, it would have been cheaper paying them and every govt official necessary, but bush wanted to dismantle the bathist element, even though every aspect of Iraqi civilian life had to comply with it for decades to get along, so along with the police army, even teachers, civil order could have been better managed and in all likelihood, no opposition would ever have started, no insurgency, would have cost less and saved us soldiers lives not to mention civilian, but I don't think that was ever intended, instability was being down, somehow I actually think they might have believed they could control any opposition, but even if they didn't, I don't think they cared as that fitted anyway.

Just a little Samba

So anyway.

Iran and P5+1 are still working on a deal.
Iran, understandably are playing their cards close to their chest and winning as many concessions as possible before agreeing to all of the demands of our overlords the global powers. Infact, I'd imagine that a rather nice compromise will be reached on both sides where by not all demands are met (some of them are completely unreasonable and without precedent) and Iranian economic sanctions are lifted quickly.
In the meantime Netanyahu will huff and puff and threaten to blow the house down, but as long as he relies on the US to bankroll his military he won't actually do anything that would actively defy the US and eventually his lies will be exposed for what they are, the election campaign grandstanding of a hypocritical moron.

JRant

Icepick wrote: »

Saudia Arabia is the other big power in the Shia Sunni civil war. Its fascist religious regime should be overthrown as well.

Saudi Arabia are bankrolling ISIS is a bull**** statement though.

Is it though??

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5717157

It's long but a very good article on the origins of IS.

There's a lot of Saudi money backing them.

Brian Shanahan

Nodin wrote: »

Ahhh, "pinkwashing". Great man.

It is deeply ironic that jank, after all his pronouncements against gay rights in A&A would bring up the homophobia card to demonise another person.

Ever get sick from the rancid hypocracy jank?

Brian Shanahan

Gringo180 wrote: »

Would I be correct in saying they have violated more UN resolutions than any other western "democracy" :rolleyes: nation that is a member of the UN

They need to have a good look at themselves in the mirror before pointing the finger at others.

FYP.

And for those that are arguing that Israel is a democracy, that is only remotely true if your definition of democracy is broad enough to include apartheid South Africa or fascist Italy. When you disenfranchise millions of people in territory you control, have different levels of citizenship depending on your religon, have a constitution which upholds and strengthens one branch of one religion (orthodox judaism, think a mixture of wahabbi islam and the Westboro baptist church) while denigrating all others (and people with no religion), then you categorically do not have a democracy.

Israel is a racist state, founded on racially exclusionary lines and dedicated down to this day on maintaining the racist ethos of the state.

jank

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

It is deeply ironic that jank, after all his pronouncements against gay rights in A&A would bring up the homophobia card to demonise another person.

Ever get sick from the rancid hypocracy jank?

Care to post a specific qualitive example of where I 'pronounced' that Gays should not have rights?

jank

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

FYP.

And for those that are arguing that Israel is a democracy, that is only remotely true if your definition of democracy is broad enough to include apartheid South Africa or fascist Italy. When you disenfranchise millions of people in territory you control, have different levels of citizenship depending on your religon, have a constitution which upholds and strengthens one branch of one religion (orthodox judaism, think a mixture of wahabbi islam and the Westboro baptist church) while denigrating all others (and people with no religion), then you categorically do not have a democracy.

Israel is a racist state, founded on racially exclusionary lines and dedicated down to this day on maintaining the racist ethos of the state.

Given the fact that there are Israeli Arabs blows that one out of the water....

Timberrrrrrrr

jank wrote: »

Given the fact that there are Israeli Arabs blows that one out of the water....

Yet Ethiopian jews are discriminated against.

Just a little Samba

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Yet Ethiopian jews are discriminated against.

And there are alomst 60 laws (with more pending) which discriminate against Non-Jewish citizens, a two tier education system, restrictions on land ownership and who you can marry if you're an Arab and so on and so forth as well as wide spread violence and intimidation towards Arab communities, destruction of Churches and Mosques, vandalism of graveyards, public beatings of arab youths, bus drivers pulling guns on arab passengers and demanding to see their ID's, amusement parks refusing bookings from non-Jewish schools.

The list goes on and on.

And that's not even counting the occupied territories where Israel operates an open and unapologetic apartheid.


But anyway, this thread is about Iran's imaginary nuclear weapons and Bibi's plain faced lies about the threat it poses because he's got the wind up him with the Zionist Union (centre-left party) having higher polling than Likud for the last few weeks and the genuine fear that his moronic rule is about to end.

DamagedTrax

Just a little Samba wrote: »

And there are alomst 60 laws (with more pending) which discriminate against Non-Jewish citizens, a two tier education system, restrictions on land ownership and who you can marry if you're an Arab and so on and so forth as well as wide spread violence and intimidation towards Arab communities, destruction of Churches and Mosques, vandalism of graveyards, public beatings of arab youths, bus drivers pulling guns on arab passengers and demanding to see their ID's, amusement parks refusing bookings from non-Jewish schools.

This is something i read from an anonymous israeli arab living in Bethlehem.

Arabs in Israel are not part of the public discourse on how the country is and will be shaped.

Polls in recent years have stopped polling Arabs, specifically mentioning that polls reflect Jewish opinion.

Political parties in the government are elected based on slogans such as 'No Loyalty No Citizenship' - suggesting to the Jewish Majority that the Arab citizens are somehow collectively not loyal.

Different periods of time brought media onslaught on all popular Israeli TV, repeating mantras like 'Arabs are ticking bombs' or 'Israeli Arab leadership is inciting hatred and radicalism'. All carried out by mainstream, in-government politicians.

No other than the current prime minister has called Israeli Arabs 'The Real Demographic Threat'
Racism in its purest forms. Remarks on superiority are common. Phrases like 'We're not like that, we're not Arabs' is thrown in any negative context
Every time there's confrontation with an Arab country or militia - we're pitted with the 'Others', and racism levels spike for a while.

The occupation of Palestinians. We're by definition Palestinians, and folks from the West Bank and Gaza are literally family to many. Seeing them living under military occupation, while we live in relative freedom - mixes feelings even more.

Leading city municipality/community leadership in Israel openly call for racist behaviour such as not renting or selling flats to Arabs (Carmiel as an example).

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Given the fact that there are Israeli Arabs blows that one out of the water....

There were African-Americans in America from it's foundation.

WakeUp

Anti-Netanyahu Protest Fills Streets Of Tel Aviv As Ex-Mossad Chief Calls His Congress Speech "Bull Sh1t"

Following Benjamin Netanyahu's speech to the US Congress last week, Israel's former intelligence chief voiced his displeasure. As The Hill reports, Meir Dagan, a former Mossad director, strongly disagreed with many of Netanyahu’s assertions, stating that "Iranian missiles will never be able to hit the United States," and that comments that Iran could produce nuclear weapons within a year were "bullsh1t." But, as Mike Krieger notes below, it's not just just Dagan that is disappointed, a large protest against him erupted in the nation’s section largest city, Tel Aviv. It appears “Bibi” is far more popular with crazy American neocons than he is with his own fellow citizens.

Only a few days after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu returned from his much publicized United States trip, during which he was celebrated and drooled over by America’s top warmongers, a large protest against him erupted in the nation’s section largest city, Tel Aviv.

Just like any other country, Israel is dealing with plenty of very important domestics issues, and people are publicly questioning whether Netanyahu’s obsession with militancy, and his shameless political stunt in from of the U.S. Congress just weeks before elections back home, make his leadership questionable. Indeed, considering the remarkable lack of judgement evidenced by him back in 2002 (see: Benjamin Netanyahu in 2002 – “If You Take Out Saddam, I Guarantee, It Will Have Enormous Positive Reverberations on the Region”), one should wonder why anyone listens to him at all.

.... particularly since several of the rally’s speakers consisted of former top intelligence officers, as well as commanders in the military. It’s a good indication that there exists plenty of domestic pushback to the belligerent man that is Benjamin Netanyahu.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-07/anti-netanyahu-protest-fills-streets-tel-aviv-ex-mossad-chief-calls-his-congress-spe

moar war. phuck yeah. though maybe not.

BuilderPlumber

Netanyahu has shown himself to be a corrupt, useless leader and let's ask ourselves: what exactly has he done positive for his country or people? Nothing is the answer: only making things more dangerous for the people of Israel.

Like many countries, Israel is given a poor public image and we think of it as a country occupied by rightwing, trigger happy fanatics. Not true. 99.99% of the Israeli population want to get on with their lives just like the rest of us and want rid of the situation caused by the likes of Netanyahu. They also like most cannot change things by voting as this is, well, futile and all politicians thrive on fear and warmongering.

While Iran, too, has had its fair share of poor and repressive governments, every now and again there is a genuine effort by many politicians there to change. Whenever this happens, there seems to be a Bush or a Netanyahu trying to stop such people. Former president Khatami and current president Rouhani have a vision to take Iran forward. Of course, Netanyahu does not like this and would rather Iran be lead by some inexperienced poor out of his depth guy like Ahmadinejad (whose presidential style was like that of some bar room political expert) who did not have the experience or ability of the current president.

All this exaggerated stuff then comes out. According to Israel (and emphasised in the papers by the likes of our own Ruth Dudley Edwards), Iran is going to develop a nuclear weapon and take over the world!! While Iran's regime has had a lot of evil people in it down the years, it was directed at Iran's own people and not at others. Also, a lot of good and enlightened people exist in Iran's government and could work their way up and reform the place if allowed. This does NOT exist in other countries in the region apart from ironically Israel (which also is caught in a battle of moderates against hardliners like Mr Netanyahu). Also, Iran does not have the military capabilities to do battle against the West or Israel. We heard all this exaggeration before about Saddam and his nonexistent WMD arsenal!!

The ONLY war Iran is actively involved in actually is fighting AGAINST ISIS (aka ISIL, Islamic State), which is EXACTLY the type of 'Islamic' fascist entity that has world domination ambitions and the desire to use WMD if they had they.

Icepick

JRant wrote: »

Is it though??

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5717157

It's long but a very good article on the origins of IS.

There's a lot of Saudi money backing them.

Yes, it is. Did some money come from Saudi Arabia? Yes.
Is some still coming? Probably.
But Saudi Arabia (as in the government/royal family) is not bankrolling ISIS. In fact, they are quite afraid.

Icepick

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

FYP.

And for those that are arguing that Israel is a democracy, that is only remotely true if your definition of democracy is broad enough to include apartheid South Africa or fascist Italy. When you disenfranchise millions of people in territory you control, have different levels of citizenship depending on your religon, have a constitution which upholds and strengthens one branch of one religion (orthodox judaism, think a mixture of wahabbi islam and the Westboro baptist church) while denigrating all others (and people with no religion), then you categorically do not have a democracy.

Israel is a racist state, founded on racially exclusionary lines and dedicated down to this day on maintaining the racist ethos of the state.

Any actual evidence for these claims?

beerpong

Isreal's own intelligence have stated Iran is some way off creating WMD but seems to be interested in Nuclear Power to cut it's reliance on fossil fuels. Imagine Iran with Nukes? They might be able to offer some sort of military help to the Palestinian people before the Isreal Establishment finishes their genocide.