Netanyahu Calls On World To Halt Iran's March Of Conquest And Terror

Nodin

Icepick wrote: »

Sorry, I don't like hypocrisy and double standards.

There is no hypocrisy or double standard.

Icepick wrote: »

maybe look at the previous page

I was hoping for something more revealing than the four words there.

cerastes

Icepick wrote: »

Still occupying another country. More sanctions needed. Yet the anti-Israeli lobby doesn't care.
Also sanctions amount to collective punishment. Hypocrite much?

So you didn't notice posts such as this one?

Why point at other countries to deflect from what Israel is doing at all?
This isnt a good example though, you point at what Russia has done recently (a few years) to criticise what they are doing and fault the response to it even though it isnt the same thing, when what Israel has done for over half a century is much much worse, you call for more sanctions, well lets have some more for Israel, ones that are imposed. It really is double standards to point at what wrongs others are doing to deflect attention from the wrongs you support.

I dont think its an anti israeli lobby either, its people pointing at obvious problems and saying that is wrong/hypocritical.

Get back to the OP, this was about calling to hinder Iran, its an effort to garner support to hamstring a country which seems to have done a lot less bad than israel, on top of that as much as I dont want to see Nuclear weapons proliferation, israel is hardly the bastion of rightousness on this one, having done the same thing themselves, gathered up Nuclear weapons, kidnapped and held under arrest someone that exposed that, Im sure they havent signed any nuclear non proliferation agreements and no one has seen their facilities or weapons or even has it been suggested.

TBH, Iran having Nuclear weapons is the only thing that guarantees them not being attacked/bombed, either nuclear or conventional, but its an option Israel doesnt seem to want shut down. Iran doesnt seem to have first preemptive military strike option, unlike israel which has, 67 and 73 are a long time ago, israel is surrounded by either, allies, weak allies, or weakened or ineffective enemies, Israel seems to be in a better position now than ever and should capitlaise on this to win good will instead they push the other way.
After the 6 day war they could have held the upper hand morally and politically, but decided to take the path they seem to be on now (the 6 day war in itself was a fabricated myth, israels own stalingrad) but for which there never was any intention to seek a peaceful settlement nor any moral courage to do the right thing. Instead Israel seems to have become worse than the monster which helped create it, a nuclear armed, fascist, militarised state.

jank

Icepick wrote: »

Even going by your obsession with sanctions, where was the anti Israeli crowd before Russia was sanctioned? Where is it now calling for more sanctions as Russia continues to occupy Ukraine?


I already described the general attitude that speaks for itself.
As for specific posts, you were quite active in this thread too.

There is a lot of truth to this. People will hide behind the word sanctions in their anti Israeli comment but in truth Israel is held to a higher standard because of its close relationship with the US. Its ideological opposition rather than any real sympathy for the average Arab being persecuted by those nasty Israelis.

The average Arab is being persecuted by other Arabs not by the great evil Israel and where an Arab Israeli's enjoys greater human rights and freedoms not found anywhere else in the Middle East. Yet people just shrug their shoulder to this very fact. "Boycott Israel... but lets not boycott any goods that come from Saudi... well just casue..."

Yes, people will mention the West Bank and the limbo their people are in. That is an issue that Israel and their neighbors have to look in the medium term at but the basic premise is that Israel is the ONLY democratic state in the region. Some miles of the north east border of Israel there is a group that openly professes in ethnically cleansing the Middle East, they get 10 year old to chop the heads of 'infidels' and post them online.

This is the mentally that Israel have to deal with. They were face to face with this threat 80 years ago and now again, if any of these groups had the means they would kill every single last Jew in the Middle East. I for one am glad that Israel has the strongest military in the Middle East to protect them from this threat.

A lot of the opposition to Israel is not because of any concern for the Palestinians, do they care about how the average Palestinian is treated in Jordan or Lebanon for example? Many a regime has used them as pawns in the greater anti american/anti west conflict.

How many anti war protests have been organised to oppose Assad's actions in Syria, how many to oppose Putin's actions in the Ukraine, how many to oppose IS in Northern Iraq? There have been 10 times as many protests against Israel than anything to do with Syria by the Irish anti-war group.

Sinn Fein for example had very close links to Assad and now that he has revealed himself to the world as the dictator he always was he has been dropped like a hot stone.

Yet, the biggest problem in the Middle East is Israel it seems. As if one gets rid of Israel and their nasty policies then peace and tranquility would return to that part of the world..... lol.

The biggest problem in the Arab world is not Israel, its islamofascism in the vein of IS, Al-Qaeda and Hamas which is trying to bring that part of the world back to the middle ages. We all saw what happened with the Arab spring which has been a disaster for the region.

jank

cerastes wrote: »

Why point at other countries to deflect from what Israel is doing at all?
This isnt a good example though, you point at what Russia has done recently (a few years) to criticise what they are doing and fault the response to it even though it isnt the same thing, when what Israel has done for over half a century is much much worse, you call for more sanctions, well lets have some more for Israel, ones that are imposed. It really is double standards to point at what wrongs others are doing to deflect attention from the wrongs you support.

I dont think its an anti israeli lobby either, its people pointing at obvious problems and saying that is wrong/hypocritical.

Get back to the OP, this was about calling to hinder Iran, its an effort to garner support to hamstring a country which seems to have done a lot less bad than israel, on top of that as much as I dont want to see Nuclear weapons proliferation, israel is hardly the bastion of rightousness on this one, having done the same thing themselves, gathered up Nuclear weapons, kidnapped and held under arrest someone that exposed that, Im sure they havent signed any nuclear non proliferation agreements and no one has seen their facilities or weapons or even has it been suggested.

TBH, Iran having Nuclear weapons is the only thing that guarantees them not being attacked/bombed, either nuclear or conventional, but its an option Israel doesnt seem to want shut down. Iran doesnt seem to have first preemptive military strike option, unlike israel which has, 67 and 73 are a long time ago, israel is surrounded by either, allies, weak allies, or weakened or ineffective enemies, Israel seems to be in a better position now than ever and should capitlaise on this to win good will instead they push the other way.
After the 6 day war they could have held the upper hand morally and politically, but decided to take the path they seem to be on now (the 6 day war in itself was a fabricated myth, israels own stalingrad) but for which there never was any intention to seek a peaceful settlement nor any moral courage to do the right thing. Instead Israel seems to have become worse than the monster which helped create it, a nuclear armed, fascist, militarised state.

A few points. Israel is concerned about Iran because Iran are bankrolling and actively supporting both Hamas and Hezbollah.

If you were a country and you had two terrorist organisation camped at your north and south, one of whom publicly state they want to perpetrate a new Holocaust against the Jews, do you think you are going to be best of friends with the country that funds and arms these groups? Like seriously? "Ah sure have the nuclear weapons and sure why not give one to your proxy army on our border..."

If Iran stopped funding and arming these groups, Israels opposition to a nuclear Iran would be much lesser. Also remember Saudi is actually the biggest proponent against a Nuclear Iran. If Iran has the bomb, the Saudi HAS to follow suit. Given the state of the Middle East now a nuclear arms race is not something we should throw onto an already raging bonfire.

Israel also gave back most of the land it won in the 6 day war.

Lastly, I find it quite amusing and actually hysterical that you use the word 'Fascist' when talking about Israel (but not Iran mind you ) on the night where an open and democratic election was held in Israel.....
If Israel is fascist, then what the hell is the rest of the middle east?

It is the misuse of these words that I find to talk people seriously when criticising Israel.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

There is a lot of truth to this. People will hide behind the word sanctions in their anti Israeli comment but in truth Israel is held to a higher standard because of its close relationship with the US. Its ideological opposition rather than any real sympathy for the average Arab being persecuted by those nasty Israelis.

...............

And colonisation outside its borders, sans penalties, has nothing to do with it at all at all.

jank wrote: »

How many anti war protests have been organised to oppose Assad's actions in Syria, how many to oppose Putin's actions in the Ukraine, how many to oppose IS in Northern Iraq? ...............

Under sanctions, under sanctions and under sanctions and being bombed.

Nodin

And this is bad news indeed.

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing Likud party has won a surprise victory in Israel's election, Israeli media report.

Earlier exit polls had suggested a dead heat with centre-left Zionist Union.

With most votes counted, Likud is said to be on course to take 29 seats in the 120-seat parliament, the Knesset, with the Zionist Union on 24 seats.

If confirmed, this would indicate another coalition government led by Mr Netanyahu."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31933326

Just a little Samba

Nodin wrote: »

And this is bad news indeed.

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's right-wing Likud party has won a surprise victory in Israel's election, Israeli media report.

Earlier exit polls had suggested a dead heat with centre-left Zionist Union.

With most votes counted, Likud is said to be on course to take 29 seats in the 120-seat parliament, the Knesset, with the Zionist Union on 24 seats.

If confirmed, this would indicate another coalition government led by Mr Netanyahu."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31933326

I hope that somehow, I have no idea how, he isn't able to form a government.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

And colonisation outside its borders, sans penalties, has nothing to do with it at all at all.

I did mention the West Bank and the need to settle it with their neighbours. Israelis currently incur a penalty for this by not having peace with their neighbors.

Nodin wrote: »

Under sanctions, under sanctions and under sanctions and being bombed.

Yes, quite aware of this fact but again how many anti-Syria or anti-Russia protests have been organised compared to Israel the past number of years.
Close to 200,000 people have been killed in Syria's civil war yet not much of a peep from the Irish anti-war crowd.

Google hits experiment www.irishantiwar.org
Israel 1,560
Syria 958
ISIS 69
USA 2,210
Russia 491
Iran 1,240
Congo 169
Africa 687
UK 2,350

Putin 82
Cameron 144
Obama 781
Assad 206

Shannon 2,810

So it appears that Shannon is of greater 'importance' than wars in Africa or Syria....

Again, that is why people are cynical.

Note:

This is hilarious..
http://www.irishantiwar.org/node/2244

We condemn terrorists actions on Charlie Hedbo.. BUT..... #types out long list of French wrong doings in North Africa, blames western imperialism and the 'right'....#
I see Israel is mentioned twice for good measure... sigh.. along with the other boggey men like Golden Dawn and UKIP neither of which had anything remotely to do with the middle east. No mention of course of Al-Qaeda you know the group that claimed responsibility for this terrorist attack nor indeed their training ground Syria and ISIS.

johnnyskeleton

jank wrote: »

Yes, quite aware of this fact but again how many anti-Syria or anti-Russia protests have been organised compared to Israel the past number of years.
Close to 200,000 people have been killed in Syria's civil war yet not much of a peep from the Irish anti-war crowd.

Ok, I appreciate that the Middle East has a lot of interconnected matters, not least of which is the topic of this particular post i.e. Netanyahu's view of Iran, but the fact that there are more or less protesters, outrage, news articles etc about Israel than there are about other countries is not relevant.

If you want to discuss this, I'm sure you'll fill a few pages of a new thread, but please keep it separate from this thread so that everything remains on topic.

Icepick and Nodin, the trading of one liners is also not condusive to healthy discussion, if it continues I will take action, including the ultimate sanction of consigning those posts to the Cafe where you can dispute who is right and who is wrong ad nauseam!

Playboy

Very worrying that Netenyahu has rejected any possibility of a two state solution and committed to expanding settlements. This means the possibility of a large scale uprising in the West Bank has increased ten fold as there is now no hope of a resolution to the conflict for the Palestinians. This will increase support for Hamas and other terrorist organisations in both Gaza and the West Bank. Bibi has just committed to more bloodshed and oppression and thus has put the safety of the Israeli people at risk. The irony is that he probably won the election based on a commitment to security.

Nodin

jank wrote: »

I did mention the West Bank and the need to settle it with their neighbours. Israelis currently incur a penalty for this by not having peace with their neighbors..

They're effectively at peace with their neighbours and pay no price at all.

<snip> - as above I'm trying to keep the thread an target, but the issue of the level of attention given to Israel vs Syria, Russia etc can be discussed in a new thread if you wish

Nodin

Just a little Samba wrote: »

Can we get back on topic please?

Though Liebermann seems to have been weakened in the results, Likuds unequivocal shift to the right cancels out any good this may have heralded. It's hard to see any good in any of this, short, medium or long term, save the hope that Netanyahu alienates international support.

Madd Finn

DavidRamsay99 wrote: »

The ideology of the Palestinians is the same as that of ISIS.
The only difference is the degree of their extremism.
However they all believe in the ultimate defeat of Israel and the mass murder of all the Jews and the establishment of the global Caliphate......
Israel and the Jews refuse to be slaughtered and this angers the Europeans because they fear they too will have to roll up their sleeves and fight for the very survival....
The psychology of avoiding confrontation at all costs and retreating on all fronts is emboldening terrorists and rogue states like Iran who seek nuclear arms.

This is the sort of <snip> half truths and outright falsehoods that goes down well in some parts of the world (American red states and Israel) and can be effective in the short term. It helped secure the re-election of George W Bush with an increased majority (ie A majority) in 2004 and it has seen the probable return to power this week of Benyamin Netanyahu, but only after he sold what remains of his soul to the ultranationalist loonies of the Israeli right.

The American people deeply regretted voting in Dubya a second time; witness Obama's two landslide wins since. And as for the Israelis, returning the Messianic Morons on a determined ticket of rejection of any deal with the Palestinians other than outright surrender and flight; more of the same for them.

More dispossession of other people's land.
More eradication of an indigrenous people's culture and history.
More ethnic cleansing.
More shooting of protesting children.
More using laser guided rockets against slum dwellers.
More wondering why fewer and fewer people like them.

MOD: - You may disagree with someone's views, but that is not a reason to use inflammatory language

Eugene Norman

Icepick wrote: »

Unfortunately the thread descended from discussing Netanyahu's opinion on how to deal with the islamofascist threat that is the Iranian government into the usual Israel bashing.

The thread merely disagreed with claims of "islamofascist" for Iran and therefore had to criticise israel. A country, by the way, which reserves the right to nuke you if things are not going too well for them in a war.

Brian Shanahan

Madd Finn wrote: »

The American people deeply regretted voting in Dubya a second time; witness Obama's two landslide wins since.

The thing is Shrub won neither election. In 2000 after Gore won Florida (despite Jeb illegally taking the votes off over 90,000 US citizens because they were of demographics {i.e. Jews, Blacks & Latinos} that voted overwhelmingly Democrat, and counting postal votes from demographics that voted majority Republican which were cast after the election) a Supreme Court packed by Daddy Shrub's cronies and fellators overturned the decision of the people and imposed the Shrub dictatorship. In 2004 the dictatorship did what Florida did in 2000 on a national scale (in some states like New Mexico with the help of Dems in name only like then Governor Bob Richardson) illegally disenfranchising over 2,000,000 voters throughout the land, and packing votes in Republican districts so that in some cases they returned a vote greater than 100% of the registered voting population. This was the kind of democratic process that would have brought a tear to იოსებ ბესარიონის ძე ჯუღაშვილი's* eye.

All this is laid out in Greg Palast's Armed Madhouse, with full citation for those who don't believe it.

*Uncle Joe Stalin for those who can't read Georgian (including me, I robbed it off Wikipedia).

FalconGirl

Halpenny wrote: »

Benjamin Netanyahu today:



Strange coming from a guy who claims to want democracy to reign over terror. Isn't the idea of voting in an election to get people to vote ?? He says it like he doesn't believe "arab voters" should be let vote ...


Taken from RTE news http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0317/687626-israel/

Netanyahu is a modern day psychopath. His bombardments of Gaza with so little disregard for innocent lives alone confirms that. How the Israeli people support him, I cannot understand. The power of propaganda from an early age I suppose.

A truly disgusting human being.

jank

FalconGirl wrote: »

Netanyahu is a modern day psychopath. His bombardments of Gaza with so little disregard for innocent lives alone confirms that. How the Israeli people support him, I cannot understand. The power of propaganda from an early age I suppose.

A truly disgusting human being.

Well at least Israeli's have a choice in supporting him (i.e via the ballot box). In pretty much all of the Middle East there is no choice in who your leader is.....

Israelis support him because they do not see a permanent alternative. Note that Zionist Union are no angels themselves when it comes security and foreign policy. Much of the discontent with Bibi is actually with domestic policies like the high cost of living for example.

Anyway, I do not see him winning another election. This is his chance to carve out a legacy. Will he do a Nixon?

Nodin

jank wrote: »

Well at least Israeli's have a choice in supporting him (i.e via the ballot box). In pretty much all of the Middle East there is no choice in who your leader is.....

Including the West Bank, given where the real power lies.

jank wrote:

Anyway, I do not see him winning another election. This is his chance to carve out a legacy. Will he do a Nixon?

And go to China? Doubtful. Bomb Cambodia and Laos far more likely.

Gringo180

jank wrote: »

Well at least Israeli's have a choice in supporting him (i.e via the ballot box). In pretty much all of the Middle East there is no choice in who your leader is.....

Yes and these tyrannical dictators put in place with the help and support of the west.


Btw is there not a limit to how many times this war criminal can be voted in?

Just a little Samba

jank wrote: »

Anyway, I do not see him winning another election. This is his chance to carve out a legacy. Will he do a Nixon?

I think it's far more likely that he is remembered as the man who fractured the political landscape of the country so much that a government formed with the largest party having a pitiful 29 seats in the Knesset. Between the two largest parties they still couldn't form a majority party.

Timberrrrrrrr

jank wrote: »

Well at least Israeli's have a choice in supporting him (i.e via the ballot box). In pretty much all of the Middle East there is no choice in who your leader is.....

Israelis support him because they do not see a permanent alternative. Note that Zionist Union are no angels themselves when it comes security and foreign policy. Much of the discontent with Bibi is actually with domestic policies like the high cost of living for example.

Anyway, I do not see him winning another election. This is his chance to carve out a legacy. Will he do a Nixon?

More likely he will do a Kennedy.

PopePalpatine

I wonder how long it will be before the land-grabs in the West Bank resume.

jank

Nodin wrote: »

Including the West Bank, given where the real power lies.

Its a pity you do not show as much sympathy for the average Arab person in Syria, Saudi or Iran... again, yes the West bank is an issue which brings me to the Nixon comment.

Nodin wrote: »

And go to China? Doubtful. Bomb Cambodia and Laos far more likely.

Clearly the the Proverb "Only Nixon could go to China" is lost on you. It was a reference to making a landmark foreign policy decision that would have long lasting repercussions.

jank

Gringo180 wrote: »

Yes and these tyrannical dictators put in place with the help and support of the west.

You may have had a point there pre Arab-Spring but the West decided to go laissez faire when the Arab Spring tore through the Middle East. By all intents of purposes it was a disaster. No real success story to emerge.

An example.The west withdrew support to Mubarak in Egypt. What happened then, Muslim Brotherhood took over in free elections, then decided for a more permanent power grab with their version of Sharia law as well thrown into the mix as well. Army coup resulted in them stealing power back. Many dead and Egypt as divided as ever.

The perpetual 'blame the west' is growing old. Sooner rather then later these countries will have to take responsibility for their own actions, coups, revolutions and so on.

jank

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder how long it will be before the land-grabs in the West Bank resume.

Zionist Union also favoured building settlements in the West Bank so this would not have changed all that much if Bibi lost the election.

Just a little Samba

jank wrote: »

Its a pity you do not show as much sympathy for the average Arab person in Syria, Saudi or Iran...

Not many Arab's in Iran, so why worry about them?

Plenty of Persians though.

BuilderPlumber

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The thread merely disagreed with claims of "islamofascist" for Iran and therefore had to criticise israel. A country, by the way, which reserves the right to nuke you if things are not going too well for them in a war.

The re-election of this joker is not at all what is needed for Israel or the greater region. But the usual things happen: he has a solid support of around 5% of the population who will vote, he also has voter apathy on his side and also some Israelis vote for him out of fear of (perceived) more 'hardline' options that he is saving them from.

Iran too has had a history of abysmal government. But this is 100% caused by interference from the likes of Netanyahu. At the moment, Iran is moving in a good direction and its moderate president should be allowed progress the place with SUPPORT from the international community. Hassan Rouhani is simply not the man the likes of Netanyahu want to see in Iran because he is intelligent, moderate and businesslike. In other words, he could turn Iran into a country that reaches its full potential.

For Israel, the culchie religious peasants of the 1980s Iranian regime and the childish Ahmadinejad were exactly what they wanted. Neither had the ability, skills, experience or intelligence to use the great natural resources Iran has. But Rouhani has that ability and so did Khatami and (despite he being corrupt) Rafsanjani (Iran's Charlie Haughey!?!).

I hope Netanyahu is sidelined and that at long last his fascist, warmongering regime gets the treatment it would get if it were in Serbia or was an Arab country! The Israeli people and the world deserve better than this troublemaking joker.

JRant

jank wrote: »

You may have had a point there pre Arab-Spring but the West decided to go laissez faire when the Arab Spring tore through the Middle East. By all intents of purposes it was a disaster. No real success story to emerge.

An example.The west withdrew support to Mubarak in Egypt. What happened then, Muslim Brotherhood took over in free elections, then decided for a more permanent power grab with their version of Sharia law as well thrown into the mix as well. Army coup resulted in them stealing power back. Many dead and Egypt as divided as ever.

The perpetual 'blame the west' is growing old. Sooner rather then later these countries will have to take responsibility for their own actions, coups, revolutions and so on.

Au contraire, the people in those regions see the carnage going on around them daily.

It's the US of A who need to take responsibility for their actions in the region. There is hardly a single thing that happens in the middle east without them having some input in it.
Since the 2nd World War successive American governments have tried to control the worlds energy supply. Unfortunately for the people of the Middle East they sit on top of a huge supply of this.

This leads back to Isreal, which is in fact a defacto oversees american military base and is used to control the region.

Icepick

JRant wrote: »

Au contraire, the people in those regions see the carnage going on around them daily.

It's the US of A who need to take responsibility for their actions in the region. There is hardly a single thing that happens in the middle east without them having some input in it.
Since the 2nd World War successive American governments have tried to control the worlds energy supply. Unfortunately for the people of the Middle East they sit on top of a huge supply of this.

This leads back to Isreal, which is in fact a defacto oversees american military base and is used to control the region.

USA are responsible for the islamofascist governments terrorizing the populace?

Timberrrrrrrr

Icepick wrote: »

USA are responsible for the islamofascist governments terrorizing the populace?

Noooo

The Yanks can do that all on their own