russian-bombers

Captain Chaos

BoatMad wrote: »

most of those are bought for political reasons,

The Saab Griffon as I mentioned would be an ideal purchase for ireland, about ¼ of the maintenance costs of an F-16. higher flight hours availability and good all round capability , but not air superiority which is not important to Ireland.

plus its made in Europe

It can do air superiority fine (just not US air dominance style) if you support it with a mini AWACS and load them up with AIM-120s. AWACS can data link target info and guide the missiles from the other side of the country while 39s can remain EMCON silent, launch and run. It's getting Meteor support too so even better.

BoatMad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I was only giving an example. The Hawk can at least keep up with an Airbus, unlike anything the air Corp currently has.

JAS 39 C/D or even the new E are under 40 mill a pop, 10 used ( 20 mill a pop ?)

cheaper then the M17 and more useful.

and the Swedes are famous for paying massive bribes too. we could rake it in,.

I know, lease them from Denis o Brien

Fratton Fred

purplepanda wrote: »

We need assistance from our EU partners & it's also in Europe's interest that we upgrade the defence forces. Ireland should be co-operating at the highest levels with it's EU neighbours including taking part in defence exercises regularly:

What would make sense, is for the RAF to base four typhoons in Baldonnel and train Irish pilots and technicians.

It fills a skill gap in the air Corp and fills a gap in the air defence gap on its western flank.

British military aircraft in Ireland would create too much hand wringing from the self righteous liberals though, so it's never going to happen.

BoatMad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What would make sense, is for the RAF to base four typhoons in Baldonnel and train Irish pilots and technicians.

It fills a skill gap in the air Corp and fills a gap in the air defence gap on its western flank.

British military aircraft in Ireland would create too much hand wringing from the self righteous liberals though, so it's never going to happen.

no, but the french could.

purplepanda

According to some sources online the Swedes are very keen to do deals, including leasing, maintenance & service, plus training for the JAS39 Griffins! Some countries are already doing deals & plenty others are negotiating.

Hungary & Czech Rep. are currently leasing the JSA39. If these countries can afford them there is no real excuse why Ireland can't do otherwise! :mad:

BoJack Horseman

Actually, Leasing the Saab Grippen looks a good option.

Czech Republic leased 14 @ €78m per year.

6 + 2 tandem seaters for training.... Let Saab take care of the oil changes & wiper fluid....

Probably get that for €60m per year easily...

Or to put it another way... 0.03% of GDP.

As Sweden is actually neutral, you wouldn't have the Claire Daley's of the world rending their garments in public.

BoatMad

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Actually, Leasing the Saab Grippen looks a good option.

Czech Republic leased 14 @ €78m per year.

6 + 2 tandem seaters for training.... Let Saab take care of the oil changes & wiper fluid....

Probably get that for €60m per year easily...

Or to put it another way... 0.03% of GDP.

As Sweden is actually neutral, you wouldn't have the Claire Daley's of the world rending their garments in public.

or just a fraction of the 300 Billon health budget for 2015

BoJack Horseman

BoatMad wrote: »

or just a fraction of the 300 Billon health budget for 2015

Might be a smidge off there!

BoatMad

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Might be a smidge off there!

opps sorry 13 billon ( 1, 3s and zeros all look alike to me !)

josip

BoatMad wrote: »

no, but the french could.

Not sure they'd be any benefit.
The last time they were here, they spent a month wandering around the countryside and in the end negotiated their own safe passage leaving us in the sh1t.

BoatMad

josip wrote: »

Not sure they'd be any benefit.
The last time they were here, they spent a month wandering around the countryside and in the end negotiated their own safe passage leaving us in the sh1t.

true true, but at least we could learn to make a decent croissant while they were here this time

purplepanda

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What would make sense, is for the RAF to base four typhoons in Baldonnel and train Irish pilots and technicians.

It fills a skill gap in the air Corp and fills a gap in the air defence gap on its western flank.

British military aircraft in Ireland would create too much hand wringing from the self righteous liberals though, so it's never going to happen.

Do we get to keep them afterwards? :pac:

If Ireland upgraded the IAC with proper fighter jets then regular military training & exercises with the RAF & other EU airforces such as Sweden & France would be more than justifiable.

It would be better if the RAF turned up after the IAC had a couple of fighters, complete with trained pilots, even if the jets were leased from elsewhere. At least they would have IAC insignia on them.

In fact the sight of RAF & IAC joint exercises would be worth it just to see the crusties going into berserk mode! :pac:

Tabnabs

Captain Chaos wrote: »

.....and the fallout would wipe out the rest of the country.

You'd be surprised in a rural country like Ireland. Have a go yourself here
http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

Son Of A Vidic

josip wrote: »

Let's see.
A squadron of Eurofighters.
12 * €100m = €1.2 billion.
Nuff said.

As another poster said, you don't need to buy something shiny and new. The formidable F-15E Strike Eagle comes in at around $36 million dollars a unit, or €32.2 million euro. A twelve plane squadron would set you back €384.4 million, or 72% cheaper than the costing you listed. So if a Euro fighter, Russian MiG or an American plane made an unscheduled intrusion into our airspace. A pair of scrambled F-15E's would quickly make them back off and respect Irish airspace.

Tabnabs

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

As another poster said, you don't need to buy something shiny and new. The formidable F-15E Strike Eagle comes in at around $36 million dollars a unit, or €32.2 million euro. A twelve plane squadron would set you back €384.4 million, or 72% cheaper than the costing you listed. So if a Euro fighter, Russian MiG or an American plane made an unscheduled intrusion into our airspace. A pair of scrambled F-15E's would quickly make them back off and respect Irish airspace.

We've crossed the Walter Mitty Rubicon now...

An aircraft that ceased production in 2001.

josip

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

As another poster said, you don't need to buy something shiny and new. The formidable F-15E Strike Eagle comes in at around $36 million dollars a unit, or €32.2 million euro. A twelve plane squadron would set you back €384.4 million, or 72% cheaper than the costing you listed. So if a Euro fighter, Russian MiG or an American plane made an unscheduled intrusion into our airspace. A pair of scrambled F-15E's would quickly make them back off and respect Irish airspace.

I always thought it was better to have 2/3 modern fighters than a whole squadron of older planes?

eg. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2435389/posts

Grayson

josip wrote: »

I always thought it was better to have 2/3 modern fighters than a whole squadron of older planes?

eg. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2435389/posts

2-3 wouldn't really have any redundancy built into it. You'd need a few more for training and for when one is being serviced.
Not saying you'd need 10 but you'd need more than 2-3

BoJack Horseman

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

As another poster said, you don't need to buy something shiny and new. The formidable F-15E Strike Eagle comes in at around $36 million dollars a unit, or €32.2 million euro. A twelve plane squadron would set you back €384.4 million, or 72% cheaper than the costing you listed. So if a Euro fighter, Russian MiG or an American plane made an unscheduled intrusion into our airspace. A pair of scrambled F-15E's would quickly make them back off and respect Irish airspace.

The Strike Eagle costs a lot more nowadays.....
You'd be looking at €90m per unit, depending on spec.

I wouldn't bother with it with cheaper options available.

BoJack Horseman

Tabnabs wrote: »

An aircraft that ceased production in 2001.

Its still produce-able.... but for not much longer.

WakeUp

Fratton Fred wrote: »

What would make sense, is for the RAF to base four typhoons in Baldonnel and train Irish pilots and technicians.

It fills a skill gap in the air Corp and fills a gap in the air defence gap on its western flank.

British military aircraft in Ireland would create too much hand wringing from the self righteous liberals though, so it's never going to happen.

no that wouldnt make sense at all. because we are capable of doing this ourselves we dont need the British to get some planes worthy of the task in the sky. its beyond a joke that we dont have any jets and even worse a proper radar/air defence system in place. for an investment of maybe say 150 million even less we could get ourselves some jets and all that goes with them and a proper air defence set up. Our navy aside we use an ancient archaic radar system in our defence forces with a range of maybe 70kms. seriously. we can track civillian aircraft to maybe 125 km. our requirements are basic, subsonic high speed + altitude with suitable air to air capabilities and sensors. and thats about it. either the KAI T50 at about 20 million per jet or my own choice Czech L 159 would be suitable and without having to spend a fortune. and we wouldnt have to rely on others. we need some jets and a proper radar system we should find the money and get it done its basic stuff really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG1giWuCiFE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_8HNlW-kyU

c_man

So how much annually would one of these squadrons cost? We'll say it's E400 million upfront, how much will be needed form the budget for ongoing maintenance etc?

Not that I think this will ever happen, politicians telling people we need fighter jets to eh.. scare off the Russians just won't fly and whatever budget is allocated would be the first thing to be cut when there's any murmur of underfunding in other PS/welfare areas.

BoJack Horseman

c_man wrote: »

So how much annually would one of these squadrons cost? We'll say it's E400 million upfront, how much will be needed form the budget for ongoing maintenance etc?

Not that I think this will ever happen, politicians telling people we need fighter jets to eh.. scare off the Russians just won't fly and whatever budget is allocated would be the first thing to be cut when there's any murmur of underfunding in other PS/welfare areas.

Rough guess would be 5% of the purchase price of the plane, per year.

That's why lease deals make sense.... Less maintenance costs.

Reoil

Since when this did forum turn into After Hours?

josip

Reoil wrote: »

Since when this did forum turn into After Hours?

22/11/2009

WakeUp

c_man wrote: »

So how much annually would one of these squadrons cost? We'll say it's E400 million upfront, how much will be needed form the budget for ongoing maintenance etc?

Not that I think this will ever happen, politicians telling people we need fighter jets to eh.. scare off the Russians just won't fly and whatever budget is allocated would be the first thing to be cut when there's any murmur of underfunding in other PS/welfare areas.

400 million is way off the mark. 150 million we could get 6 jets thats all we need and what goes with them equipment, support, weapons and a proper ground radar system. infact we could probably do that for less than 150 million. the upkeep would be minimal. forget about buying them because of Russia or whatever we should have some jets anyways and a radar system worthy of the name.

Samaris

Tabnabs wrote: »

You'd be surprised in a rural country like Ireland. Have a go yourself here
http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

I got a worrying amount of entertainment out of that.

Fratton Fred

WakeUp wrote: »

no that wouldnt make sense at all. because we are capable of doing this ourselves we dont need the British to get some planes worthy of the task in the sky.

The Irish air corp isn't suddenly going to have the expertise to fly and maintain fast jets. The personnel will need significant training and the best way of getting this is through a partnership with a friendly country.

It doesn't need to be the UK, but it would be of benefit to the UK because currently there is a requirement to police the skies on its western flank because there is a gap there.

It also means trainee pilots could catch the ferry home every weekend!

BoatMad

BoatMad wrote: »

so as a sovereign nation , you accept we cannot even patrol our own airspace. compared to countries like Finland and Austria, with lower GDP per head of pop and have 100+ combat aircraft .

Yes. Yes I do accept that and am very happy that we avoided the cold war and didn't have to stock up on such unnecessary and expensive equipment.

I'm surprised that more people aren't in agreement! Although a thread titled 'Russian bombers' is likely to pull the Walter Mittys in.

c_man

WakeUp wrote: »

forget about buying them because of Russia or whatever we should have some jets anyways and a radar system worthy of the name.

Just cos? That's not a good enough reason tbh. It's quite a bit of money that's being bandied about, ye really need to sell it better than that.

Larbre34

c_man wrote: »

Just cos? That's not a good enough reason tbh. It's quite a bit of money that's being bandied about, ye really need to sell it better than that.

How about a sovereign nation is only such if it can assert the sovereignty.

Despite the recent years of travails, we are a modern relatively wealthy country who should be able to roll out the not-so-welcome mat to any probing or aggression. Not having an air defence radar and some semblance of an interceptor capability is an embarrassment and a dis-service to our citizens and neighbours