russian-bombers

josip

BoatMad wrote: »

They wont do that , the french fire first and dont even ask questions later

At who? Greenpeace?

The last thing we need are jet fighters! It's not just the outright cost, but the maintenance cost of repairing and replacing. Also not to forget the eventual tribunal when it all goes tits up at the first opportunity to use them. And the tribunal into why it cost 20 times the initial projection.

No thanks.

BoatMad

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

You may scoff, but being no threat whatsoever is our greatest defence in that particular situation.

how does that work for hedgehogs crossing the motorways .hmmmm

Ireland isn't neutral, its merely defenceless in the extreme

Captain Chaos

bpmurray wrote: »

I believe they're around $150M, which is a bit more than €100M.

Just as effective would be to have a targeting system that illuminates the planes once they cross into Irish territory - it would make them think that they're locked on by missiles. That would be a lot cheaper.

Just get 12 of the lastest Block of F-16s at around €60 million each that are 95% as good and better in some cases than the Typhoon.

That's the dreamland smart buy option.

BoatMad

Sergio Georgini wrote: »

The last thing we need are jet fighters! It's not just the outright cost, but the maintenance cost of repairing and replacing. Also not to forget the eventual tribunal when it all goes tits up at the first opportunity to use them. And the tribunal into why it cost 20 times the initial projection.

No thanks.

so as a sovereign nation , you accept we cannot even patrol our own airspace. compared to countries like Finland and Austria, with lower GDP per head of pop and have 100+ combat aircraft .

BoatMad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Just get 12 of the lastest Block of F-16s at around €60 million each that are 95% as good and better in some cases than the Typhoon.

That's the dreamland smart buy option.

nope US combat airscraft represent the worst value for money, with terrible reliability and various issues over their supposed combat efficiency

Eurofigther would be better as an all round aircraft


even better again would be something like the Saab Griffon, lower cost,

we dont need air superiority , just enough firepower to do air interception.

In any battle, wed have to hide under NATO anyway

gandalf

We should get a squadron of those Golden Eagles

And then pick up a couple of these bad boys when the US decommission them (tbh I'm only saying this because it is my favourite plane of all time!).

Fratton Fred

josip wrote: »

Let's see.
A squadron of Eurofighters.
12 * €100m = €1.2 billion.
Nuff said.

It doesn't need Eurofighters. That's like saying we can't afford a Range Rover, so why buy a car.

Even 10 BAe Hawks would improve Irish defence capabilities exponentially.

Captain Chaos

Something like the A-10 would be ideal for us in the peace keeping roles the lads get deployed on alright.

gandalf

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Something like the A-10 would be ideal for us in the peace keeping roles the lads get deployed on alright.

Whats not to like. It's a plane designed around a Gatling Cannon

gandalf

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It doesn't need Eurofighters. That's like saying we can't afford a Range Rover, so why buy a car.

Even 10 BAe Hawks would improve Irish defence capabilities exponentially.

Or 10 of those Korean Golden Eagles which is based on a F16 type design would be around €270 million. That certainly would enhance things. Add in a decent military grade ground based radar and then we're sucking diesel (no idea on the costs of this?).

Captain Chaos

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Even 10 BAe Hawks would improve Irish defence capabilities exponentially.

They are only fit for fast jet training. They'ed be hard pressed to intercept an airliner if they had to as they can't go supersonic. There are only good for ambush CAPs in airial combat.

JAS-39C/D would be a decent low cost all rounder if the gun was put to our heads.

BoatMad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Something like the A-10 would be ideal for us in the peace keeping roles the lads get deployed on alright.

A-10, whaaat, do you intend strafing kerry or something , utterly useless here

BoatMad

JAS-39C/D would be a decent low cost all rounder if the gun was put to our heads.

at least one agrees with me. we could land them on the M11 and we like swedish armaments in general here

Captain Chaos

BoatMad wrote: »

A-10, whaaat, do you intend strafing kerry or something , utterly useless here

Didn't say they were for here. CAS duties abroad, perfect for that. Also good for costal defence on drug runners and sumglers. If you want air defence you need something that's supersonic and can fire AIM-120s otherwise it's a waste of time and money.

josip

Might as well send up a barage of weather balloons.
Oops, sorry didn't know you were there with your transponder off.

BoatMad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Didn't say they were for here. CAS duties abroad, perfect for that. Also good for costal defence on drug runners and sumglers.

no we just need air to air interception, no point buying equipment for our little " training" schemes abroad

Coastal is adequately handled by the current increased naval core, and a few better attack helicopters

gandalf

BoatMad wrote: »

A-10, whaaat, do you intend strafing kerry or something , utterly useless here

I said it's cause I think its cool

I mean if we're going to spend a pile of cash on fighters surely we should waste some on a plane I want !!!

BoatMad

I mean if we're going to spend a pile of cash on fighters surely we should waste some on a plane I want !

I sure these days you could get one on a decent PCP

BoJack Horseman

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It doesn't need Eurofighters. That's like saying we can't afford a Range Rover, so why buy a car.

Even 10 BAe Hawks would improve Irish defence capabilities exponentially.

I like the Hawks.... However they probably aren't fast enough.

The Hawk is 1,000 kmh
The 'Golden Eagle' is 1,600 kmh.

Both proven & relatively cheap.

Neutrality costs..... If you cannot defend your neutrality, then you aren't neutral.

Captain Chaos

BoatMad wrote: »

nope US combat airscraft represent the worst value for money, with terrible reliability and various issues over their supposed combat efficiency

The 22 airforces that use the F-16 don't seem to agree there.:D

Want to see bad reliability check out India's problems with it's Su-30MKIs. Lots of engine problems and they don't last as many hours as US engines either. You can overhaul US fighter engines for few more thousand hours, Russian ones are dumped once life expired.

gandalf

BoatMad wrote: »

I sure these days you could get one on a decent PCP

Honest Uncle Sams Used Plane Lot

Captain Chaos

gandalf wrote: »

Honest Uncle Sams Used Plane Lot

Yeah that huge one in the desert, you can do window shopping via Google Earth.:D

Joe prim

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yup International airport used by the USA Shannon has a nuke pointed at it does it not.

On the positive side, any nuclear strike on Shannon Airport would also take out Shannon Town, and a fair bit of Limerick, so it's all good, really.

Captain Chaos

Joe prim wrote: »

On the positive side, any nuclear strike on Shannon Airport would also take out Shannon Town, and a fair bit of Limerick, so it's all good, really.

.....and the fallout would wipe out the rest of the country.

BoatMad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 22 airforces that use the F-16 don't seem to agree there.:D

Want to see bad reliability check out India's problems with it's Su-30MKIs. Lots of engine problems and they don't last as many hours as US engines either. You can overhaul US fighter engines for few more thousand hours, Russian ones are dumped once life expired.

most of those are bought for political reasons,

The Saab Griffon as I mentioned would be an ideal purchase for ireland, about ¼ of the maintenance costs of an F-16. higher flight hours availability and good all round capability , but not air superiority which is not important to Ireland.

plus its made in Europe

BoatMad

Captain Chaos wrote: »

.....and the fallout would wipe out the rest of the country.

dubliners are like cockroaches, they'd all somehow still be bleeding there at the end

purplepanda

Since Ireland is involved with the EU Baltic brigade it would be prudent to try & secure a deal with the Swedes for some Griffin fighters even second hand, perhaps military training, maintenance & a trade deal after the Swedes recent bailout help would be an idea for negotiation.

Further co-operation with the UK after the recent defence agreement & assistance with training IAC personnel for eventual proper radar / ground air defence & fighter patrol roles at the Empire test school should also be an option. Typhoons might also be an option second hand, UK, Germany & Italy will probably cut their current numbers when they get their new F35's a few years time.

There might even be further options of co-operation with the French military. Does anyone know of any potential ideas?

We need assistance from our EU partners & it's also in Europe's interest that we upgrade the defence forces. Ireland should be co-operating at the highest levels with it's EU neighbours including taking part in defence exercises regularly.

Maybe a cheeky idea but perhaps the EU funds could contribute towards Irish defence forces modernisation & upgrades? :pac:

Fratton Fred

Captain Chaos wrote: »

They are only fit for fast jet training. They'ed be hard pressed to intercept an airliner if they had to as they can't go supersonic. There are only good for ambush CAPs in airial combat.

JAS-39C/D would be a decent low cost all rounder if the gun was put to our heads.

I was only giving an example. The Hawk can at least keep up with an Airbus, unlike anything the air Corp currently has.

BoatMad

Maybe a cheeky idea but perhaps the EU funds could contribute towards Irish defence forces modernisation & upgrades?

sure I say it could, its bought almost the whole lot of the recent naval core boats