Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Tenger

kevinandrew wrote: »

That's what 'smart' normally does but do the other IAG carriers have any spares in summer? Probably not.

Indeed. IAG need to acquire a Southern Hemisphere airline to develop season synergy in terms of aircraft swops?

L1011

Tenger wrote: »

Indeed. IAG need to acquire a Southern Hemisphere airline to develop season synergy in terms of aircraft swops?

Most countries have ownership rules that make that improbable. EU single market is the only way the three big EU groups could form.

Van.Bosch

L1011 wrote: »

Most countries have ownership rules that make that improbable. EU single market is the only way the three big EU groups could form.

Agreed, also do Southern Hemisphere airlines suffer the same imbalance in seasons. I'm just blabbering here but I would think the wealth of the US/ Europe boosts summer demand

Locker10a

Will the IAG carriers lend one another capacity this summer a la BA opering extra flights for EI last year ?

kevinandrew

Locker10a wrote: »

Will the IAG carriers lend one another capacity this summer a la BA opering extra flights for EI last year ?

Guess that depends on whether or not Aer Lingus has scheduled any additional flights for peak summer that can't be covered by their own metal.

The BA Cityflyer service last summer was in addition to the normal Aer Lingus schedule, it appeared successful and popular and it also enabled Cityflyer to generate revenue when the aircraft would normally be parked up during the LCY weekend closure so there's plenty of positives. However this summer Aer Lingus may not require Cityflyer to provide additional capacity or Cityflyer, with its own weekend flying programme from STN, may not be able to provide the extra lift.

Jamie2k9

kevinandrew wrote: »

Guess that depends on whether or not Aer Lingus has scheduled any additional flights for peak summer that can't be covered by their own metal.

The BA Cityflyer service last summer was in addition to the normal Aer Lingus schedule, it appeared successful and popular and it also enabled Cityflyer to generate revenue when the aircraft would normally be parked up during the LCY weekend closure so there's plenty of positives. However this summer Aer Lingus may not require Cityflyer to provide additional capacity or Cityflyer, with its own weekend flying programme from STN, may not be able to provide the extra lift.

Looks like they will have their own extra capacity however I suspect bookings over the next few weeks will determine if it returns/needed.

Locker10a

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

Guess that depends on whether or not Aer Lingus has scheduled any additional flights for peak summer that can't be covered by their own metal.

The BA Cityflyer service last summer was in addition to the normal Aer Lingus schedule, it appeared successful and popular and it also enabled Cityflyer to generate revenue when the aircraft would normally be parked up during the LCY weekend closure so there's plenty of positives. However this summer Aer Lingus may not require Cityflyer to provide additional capacity or Cityflyer, with its own weekend flying programme from STN, may not be able to provide the extra lift.

Looks like they will have their own extra capacity however I suspect bookings over the next few weeks will determine if it returns/needed.

Thanks for the info, I seem to recall EI over the past few years always using extra capacity either in the form of Omni, Titan or BA for the busy summer season. Id be surprised if they didn't this year considering the soaring growth from DUB.
 Will they have more of their own aircraft this year due to the removal of an aircraft from BHD, and any additions to the fleet?

kevinandrew

Aer Lingus CEO Stephen Kavanagh was speaking at an event yesterday and gave an insight into some of the airlines future fleet plans. 

At present he see's no business case for either the A350 or A330neo in the fleet, citing current fuel prices and ownership costs. It appears Aer Lingus will stick with the A333 as their wide body of choice well into the next decade. 

Aer Lingus is expecting to finalise a deal for the A321neoLR in the coming weeks, they will use the aircraft on both medium and short haul routes to ensure high utilisation of the aircraft within the fleet. 

The airline is also expecting to take delivery of four A333s in the next 18-24 months, we already know of two due later this year so it's safe assume a further two will be delivered next year. It is also considering using the A330 on the busy Dublin to Heathrow route to feed IAG Cargo, this is already in action on Heathrow to Madrid with Iberia flying A330/A340s and British Airways using 767/777s between the cities.

Tenger

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus CEO Stephen Kavanagh was speaking at an event yesterday and gave an insight into some of the airlines future fleet plans. 

At present he see's no business case for either the A350 or A330neo in the fleet, citing current fuel prices and ownership costs. It appears Aer Lingus will stick with the A333 as their wide body of choice well into the next decade.  
............

Boo Hiss!!!

Was at least hoping for something more interesting than "more of the same"
I know the A333 is a great workhorse but at least the 'A339neo' would have been a new model at least!
Can I ask what the event was? Didnt hear about any Aer Lingus anouncements happening?

kevinandrew

Tenger wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus CEO Stephen Kavanagh was speaking at an event yesterday and gave an insight into some of the airlines future fleet plans. 

At present he see's no business case for either the A350 or A330neo in the fleet, citing current fuel prices and ownership costs. It appears Aer Lingus will stick with the A333 as their wide body of choice well into the next decade.  
............

Boo Hiss!!!

Was at least hoping for something more interesting than "more of the same"
I know the A333 is a great workhorse but at least the 'A339neo' would have been a new model at least!
Can I ask what the event was? Didnt hear about any Aer Lingus anouncements happening?

It was a free lecture at the Aeronautical Society Ireland with Stephen Kavanagh as a speaker, titled "An introduction to Aer Lingus - Guests, Growth and Gateway" but as I wasn't actually present most of the information came from twitter from people who were at the event. 

With regards to the A333, I agree, purely from an enthusiast point of view it will be disappointing not to see any next generation widebody aircraft join the fleet while Iberia, British Airways and many of Aer Lingus' rivals take delivery of the latest technology. The one positive is that he mentions both the A330neo and A350 as having no place in the fleet at present, by the time there is a need for new technology it's likely the A330neo will be too small for the Aer Lingus network of 2020-2030 giving the A350 a far better chance.

I still think the next generation of wide body at Aer Lingus will be the A350, it's just a matter of time.

Locker10a

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus CEO Stephen Kavanagh was speaking at an event yesterday and gave an insight into some of the airlines future fleet plans. 

At present he see's no business case for either the A350 or A330neo in the fleet, citing current fuel prices and ownership costs. It appears Aer Lingus will stick with the A333 as their wide body of choice well into the next decade. 

Aer Lingus is expecting to finalise a deal for the A321neoLR in the coming weeks, they will use the aircraft on both medium and short haul routes to ensure high utilisation of the aircraft within the fleet. 

The airline is also expecting to take delivery of four A333s in the next 18-24 months, we already know of two due later this year so it's safe assume a further two will be delivered next year. It is also considering using the A330 on the busy Dublin to Heathrow route to feed IAG Cargo, this is already in action on Heathrow to Madrid with Iberia flying A330/A340s and British Airways using 767/777s between the cities.

Very interesting about using the 321neoLR being used short haul! I don't see the benefit to that! If like the 757s, the 321neoLR will be kitted out with full business class then the seating capacity would be below the current 321s and maybe even the 320s! 
Unless of course he means they will have a split order with some being transatlantic configuration and some being Europes configuration

Van.Bosch

Locker10a wrote: »

Very interesting about using the 321neoLR being used short haul! I don't see the benefit to that! If like the 757s, the 321neoLR will be kitted out with full business class then the seating capacity would be below the current 321s and maybe even the 320s! 
Unless of course he means they will have a split order with some being transatlantic configuration and some being Europes configuration

Which for an airline the size of EI wouldn't make sense, sure a regular A321neo would suffice.

L1011

I presume they mean it'll operate euro legs between TATL ones which the 757s don't.

kevinandrew

L1011 wrote: »

I presume they mean it'll operate euro legs between TATL ones which the 757s don't.

Maybe but [font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Locker10a has just pointed out the issue with that, the TATL A321s should be fitted with both a business and economy cabin which would give them about 170 seats, fine for the transatlantic but not appropriate for the short haul operation. [/font]

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

Very interesting about using the 321neoLR being used short haul! I don't see the benefit to that! If like the 757s, the 321neoLR will be kitted out with full business class then the seating capacity would be below the current 321s and maybe even the 320s! 
Unless of course he means they will have a split order with some being transatlantic configuration and some being Europes configuration

Which for an airline the size of EI wouldn't make sense, sure a regular A321neo would suffice.

Why wouldn't it make sense? The A321neoLR and A321neo aren't drastically different but the LR variant is a more capable transatlantic aircraft, much closer to a true 757 replacement than the standard version. A fleet of A321neo's for short haul and LR's for transatlantic makes sense as part of a wider replacement programme, remember IAG already have a large number of A320neo family on order for all airlines within the group, there's even an A320neo mocked up in Aer Lingus colours on the Airbus website. 



The A321neo could have a significant place within the short haul fleet if the numbers work for Aer Lingus, Wizz Air believes its size and ability to fit in 240 seats gives them a huge advantage over Ryanair which will only be able to squeeze around 200 seats into their 737MAX aircraft on order. Now Aer Lingus wouldn't be able to fill 240 seats year round on short haul but the option to have a higher capacity aircraft and a lower cost per seat than Ryanair must be of interest to them.

Locker10a

Yeah I agree, I could see EI having maybe 5 A321neoLR and then perhaps an additional 3 A321neo to compliment their current europes fleet. 
Newer A321neos, with higher capacity, and improved fuel efficiency etc would be a dream for EI on Canary island, Spanish , portuguese and Italian holiday flights in the summer.

Van.Bosch

kevinandrew wrote: »

Maybe but [font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Locker10a has just pointed out the issue with that, the TATL A321s should be fitted with both a business and economy cabin which would give them about 170 seats, fine for the transatlantic but not appropriate for the short haul operation. [/font]


Why wouldn't it make sense? The A321neoLR and A321neo aren't drastically different but the LR variant is a more capable transatlantic aircraft, much closer to a true 757 replacement than the standard version. A fleet of A321neo's for short haul and LR's for transatlantic makes sense as part of a wider replacement programme, remember IAG already have a large number of A320neo family on order for all airlines within the group, there's even an A320neo mocked up in Aer Lingus colours on the Airbus website. 



The A321neo could have a significant place within the short haul fleet if the numbers work for Aer Lingus, Wizz Air believes its size and ability to fit in 240 seats gives them a huge advantage over Ryanair which will only be able to squeeze around 200 seats into their 737MAX aircraft on order. Now Aer Lingus wouldn't be able to fill 240 seats year round on short haul but the option to have a higher capacity aircraft and a lower cost per seat than Ryanair must be of interest to them.

I agree, I meant no point orderering the LR and then kitting it out for SH.

john boye

Locker10a wrote: »

Very interesting about using the 321neoLR being used short haul! I don't see the benefit to that! If like the 757s, the 321neoLR will be kitted out with full business class then the seating capacity would be below the current 321s and maybe even the 320s! 
Unless of course he means they will have a split order with some being transatlantic configuration and some being Europes configuration

Wasn't there talk a while ago of EI offering biz class again on certain SH city routes in the future? I don't know how true it was but perhaps this is related to it if there was any substance in it?

Locker10a

john boye wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

Very interesting about using the 321neoLR being used short haul! I don't see the benefit to that! If like the 757s, the 321neoLR will be kitted out with full business class then the seating capacity would be below the current 321s and maybe even the 320s! 
Unless of course he means they will have a split order with some being transatlantic configuration and some being Europes configuration

Wasn't there talk a while ago of EI offering biz class again on certain SH city routes in the future? I don't know how true it was but perhaps this is related to it if there was any substance in it?

Even still, if they wanted to offer business class on euro flights, then they couldn't do it this way, as If these are going to do transatlantics then they would only be free for a morning euro flight, it would be pretty inconsistent to offer a full business product on say 2-3 European flights and only in the morning! All they could realistically do is upsell their business section as a seat upgrade like they do on AGP. Not an ideal long term solution

HTCOne

2 more A330s next year eh? Well they can't really go all A333 until the new runway is operational due MTOW issues to California can they? So some A332s will need to be kept. It will be nearly 12 months before we hear what they'll be doing but my early bet is DFW and more increases in frequency to Florida

Locker10a

HTCOne wrote: »

2 more A330s next year eh? Well they can't really go all A333 until the new runway is operational due MTOW issues to California can they? So some A332s will need to be kept. It will be nearly 12 months before we hear what they'll be doing but my early bet is DFW and more increases in frequency to Florida

Aren't two of them going to BCN to operate long haul flights from there ?

HTCOne

Locker10a wrote: »

Aren't two of them going to BCN to operate long haul flights from there ?

Forgot about that, although that's supposed to be starting later this year no? So next year's 2 will be unaffected? IAG have been hoovering up A332s for Iberia lately haven't they? Activated 14 options last year IIRC.

Jamie2k9

HTCOne wrote: »

2 more A330s next year eh? Well they can't really go all A333 until the new runway is operational due MTOW issues to California can they? So some A332s will need to be kept. It will be nearly 12 months before we hear what they'll be doing but my early bet is DFW and more increases in frequency to Florida

New A333 are fine to do West Coast and start ops this summer.

My early bet would be Canada

Van.Bosch

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

New A333 are fine to do West Coast and start ops this summer.

My early bet would be Canada

Air Canada have proved there is a market to Vancouver, so they may fancy that. Montreal, or the aged rumour of St. John's could also be options.

Realistically how many more North American routes could they make a success of before going east or south (Africa) would be considered. I would say about 6 or 7.

DFW / YVR / YUL / PHL / DEN / SEA / LAS

Dardania

Locker10a wrote: »

HTCOne wrote: »

2 more A330s next year eh? Well they can't really go all A333 until the new runway is operational due MTOW issues to California can they? So some A332s will need to be kept. It will be nearly 12 months before we hear what they'll be doing but my early bet is DFW and more increases in frequency to Florida

Aren't two of them going to BCN to operate long haul flights from there ?

HTCOne wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

Aren't two of them going to BCN to operate long haul flights from there ?

Forgot about that, although that's supposed to be starting later this year no? So next year's 2 will be unaffected? IAG have been hoovering up A332s for Iberia lately haven't they? Activated 14 options last year IIRC.

I wonder is this strategic by IAG - maybe they want to solidify their position as long haul carrier out of Spain, as they see greater potential for market capture there, and maybe also greater risk of competition (due to Norwegian etc.) compared to Dublin.
Larger population in BCN...more economic upswing potential.
Maybe Dublin is being put on back burner, as it's perceived as a slow & steady growth type market?

HTCOne

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Air Canada have proved there is a market to Vancouver, so they may fancy that. Montreal, or the aged rumour of St. John's could also be options.

Realistically how many more North American routes could they make a success of before going east or south (Africa) would be considered. I would say about 6 or 7.

DFW / YVR / YUL / PHL / DEN / SEA / LAS

IAH too if they can keep the UA codeshare.

duskyjoe

HTCOne wrote: »

2 more A330s next year eh? Well they can't really go all A333 until the new runway is operational due MTOW issues to California can they?

pure waffle. New a330s no probs unless rwy defined as wet and low pressure.

Tenger

HTCOne wrote: »

2 more A330s next year eh? Well they can't really go all A333 until the new runway is operational due MTOW issues to California can they? So some A332s will need to be kept. ....

Current version of the A333 has no issues with West Coast from Dublin. EI announced an upguage on DUB-SFO to A333 as part of their S17 schedule. A332 will remain until phased out by newer deliveries. No idea when that will happen however. Someone here had mentioned that EI-EWR was slated for leaving but is now staying in the fleet

Locker10a wrote: »

Aren't two of them going to BCN to operate long haul flights from there ?

IAG presentation last November was pretty clear that EI would have 11 A330 this summer for the S17 schedule.
Currently they have 10 A330, (thank you google!) so with 1 delivery soon that means none of those are going anywhere.

I suspect if EI are involved in the IAG operation ex-BCN it will be to provide the operational experience (and perhaps some crew training) to Vueling with airframes being leased in.


As for heading South or East from Dublin. I just dont see it for EI. (Personally I would love to see it, as the missus still has staff travel with them)
BA have Mid East, Indian, Asian and African market sewn up under the IAG umbrella, IAG will use EI to funnel that traffic via LHR.
And ex-Dublin EI are directly going head to head with EK and EY. (or even TK, LH and LX ) The biggest selling point for EI is price, but these 2 network carriers can beat EI purely based on economy of scale.

Jamie2k9

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Air Canada have proved there is a market to Vancouver, so they may fancy that. Montreal, or the aged rumour of St. John's could also be options.

Realistically how many more North American routes could they make a success of before going east or south (Africa) would be considered. I would say about 6 or 7.

DFW / YVR / YUL / PHL / DEN / SEA / LAS

YUL makes sense but may not be top of the list and I don't see St John's happening.

Some of those, smaller cities like Hartford etc plus growing existing freq, they could easily operate at least 20 aircraft to/from American before prehaps the time comes to look elsewhere.

HTCOne

duskyjoe wrote: »

pure waffle. New a330s no probs unless rwy defined as wet and low pressure.

A332s have been delayed on departure to SFO to offload cargo due runway length at DUB in summer 2016. So i'm assuming TOGA on new A333s has been increased significantly?

steve-o

HTCOne wrote: »

A332s have been delayed on departure to SFO to offload cargo due runway length at DUB in summer 2016. So i'm assuming TOGA on new A333s has been increased significantly?

The runway shrank after they loaded the cargo? That's worrying.