Russian military jets 'disrupted UK aviation'

KingBrian2

Shannon is the key. They want to disrupt commercial air lines so this stunt was an attempt to destabilise the commercial air routes. Further north are less important routes such as Norway or Iceland. If we don't safeguard our airspace other nations will. The French, British, Canadians and Spanish covet the Atlantic, with Russian Jets shadowing this space they will fear for their own commercial airlines.

expectationlost

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Shannon is the key. They want to disrupt commercial air lines so this stunt was an attempt to destabilise the commercial air routes. Further north are less important routes such as Norway or Iceland. If we don't safeguard our airspace other nations will. The French, British, Canadians and Spanish covet the Atlantic, with Russian Jets shadowing this space they will fear for their own commercial airlines.

if they wanted to disrupt commercial airlines coming into Shannon they could, but they didn't.

lord lucan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Shannon is the key. They want to disrupt commercial air lines so this stunt was an attempt to destabilise the commercial air routes. Further north are less important routes such as Norway or Iceland. If we don't safeguard our airspace other nations will. The French, British, Canadians and Spanish covet the Atlantic, with Russian Jets shadowing this space they will fear for their own commercial airlines.

You're moving into conspiracy theory territory now, I suggest if you want to keep that line of discussion going then you head to the conspiracy theories forum as it won't be tolerated here.

KingBrian2

lord lucan wrote: »

You're moving into conspiracy theory territory now, I suggest if you want to keep that line of discussion going then you head to the conspiracy theories forum as it won't be tolerated here.

I'm just acknowledging the importance of our Airspace which needs to be protected. Tell me do you not also feel that Airspace need to be protected. Are we not be told of Russian Jets flying over the North Atlantic. If so then we need to be proactive rather than reactive.

cml387

To repeat myself, Russian bear flights into the Atlantic were a normal thing up to the collapse of the Soviet Union. The world didn't end then.

It's not an ideal situation with a lot of commercial traffic about, but it's a big sky and the risk of collision is tiny.

Still, paper never refused ink and the internet never refused a big conspiracy theory.

lord lucan

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I'm just acknowledging the importance of our Airspace which needs to be protected. Tell me do you not also feel that Airspace need to be protected. Are we not be told of Russian Jets flying over the North Atlantic. If so then we need to be proactive rather than reactive.

No problem with protection of airspace,it's when you start on about it being Russian attempts to destabilise commercial air traffic and targeting Shannon that i have a problem with.

al22

Russian and US military planes are flying over the Mideterranian See for ages, as well along the borders of Russia and US, but in the international airspace, so do many military and commercial sea ships.

Commercial floghts are not a straight lines on the maps. The shortes way from Russia to the USA and Canada is actually through North, far away from Ireland, as I learned some time ago. No advantage to damage commercial flights from Ireland or UK to the USA.

Commercial Malaysian? Japanese etc fighrs from Rurope are actually over the Russian domestic/sovereign territory.

I think nobody broke the lsw and agreements at all, just a hype from nothing. If people were well informed there would be no point to discuss. Thousands of aircraft in the air in every minute, if to divide airspace exactly as sovereign territories it would be not possible to fly, Air traffic people are instantly do the job, controlling aircraft and airspace and pass every airplane from theor controlled areas to the next, and see planes well before and after planes enter and leave their controlled airspace.

arubex

Another tour of the islands for a pair of Bears late this afternoon, causing some traffic warnings to be issued by Shanwick.

cameramonkey

arubex wrote: »

Another tour of the islands for a pair of Bears late this afternoon, causing some traffic warnings to be issued by Shanwick.

any links?

arubex

cameramonkey wrote: »

any links?

You can follow the QRA tanker here

http://fr24.com/2015-02-18/15:01/12x/QZ68/58ecddf

I'll try and locate the LiveATC links. G-BNLO on BAW178 was one of the flights affected.

I didn't hear much about the Typhoons but I believe they were launched from Coningsby.

basill

They should launch an AWACS and jam his comms and the typhoons can fire their canons across his nose. See how strong his resolve is after that. And of course all will be denied in diplomatic circles.

Tabnabs

The view from the other side, literally.

A great video taken from the Tu-95 of her fighter "escort".

http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201502181902-tr6s.htm

arubex

Tabnabs wrote: »

A great video taken from the Tu-95 of her fighter "escort".

Look at the cruising pitch of those propellors! Mad!

afatbollix

Just talking about this on bbc news now

Called it breaking news and almost pointed that it was happening right now

hmmm

afatbollix wrote: »

Just talking about this on bbc news now

Called it breaking news and almost pointed that it was happening right now

Possibly because of this?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31530840

"RAF jets were scrambled after two Russian military aircraft were seen off the Cornwall coast, the Ministry of Defence says."

geneva geneva4444

forget cornwall, they came very close to the cork border yesterday. inside 40 miles

Cookiemunster

geneva geneva4444 wrote: »

forget cornwall, they came very close to the cork border yesterday. inside 40 miles

As much as Cork might think itself an independent state, it doesn't actually have any international borders

More seriously, what source do you have that they were 40 miles off the south coast?

geneva geneva4444

Cookiemunster wrote: »

As much as Cork might think itself an independent state, it doesn't actually have any international borders

More seriously, what source do you have that they were 40 miles off the south coast?

my apologies, i have nothing against cork people. i didnt mean to sound corkophobic. they were close to the kerry border too!!

arubex

Shannon control yesterday evening:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/einn/EINN-High-Feb-18-2015-1800Z.mp3

Skip through to about 15:42 and then again at 19:22 you can hear him vectoring flights so that the traffic is visible. 'Strong signals'.

At 19:22 it is IAC253 reading-back.

At 21:23 BAW178 saying they can't see anything significant.

At 27:42 'Last seen 5 minutes ago, about... that would be about 16 miles south of Fastnet Rock'

Unfortuntely there's an unreadable station clobbering part of the recording.

the_syco

cml387 wrote: »

It's not an ideal situation with a lot of commercial traffic about, but it's a big sky and the risk of collision is tiny.

Would leaving their radar off increase risk of collision?

arubex

the_syco wrote: »

Would leaving their radar off increase risk of collision?

Not particularly, the Bears show up magnificently on ATC radar but airliner radars are more attuned to weather detection than identifying other aircraft.

The main issue ATC has with the Bears is that if they keep their transponders off then they don't have an altitude read-out as many civilian surveillance radars are range-only, without a height finder component.

Cookiemunster

arubex wrote: »

Not particularly, the Bears show up magnificently on ATC radar but airliner radars are more attuned to weather detection than identifying other aircraft.

The main issue ATC has with the Bears is that if they keep their transponders off then they don't have an altitude read-out as many civilian surveillance radars are range-only, without a height finder component.

Wouldn't the bears have the ability to see and avoid the civilian traffic that does have transponders on? I'm pretty sure they don't fancy colliding with anyone.

expectationlost

"I think the Russians should be told to just get out of our airspace" http://www.newstalk.com/Russia-a-real-and-present-danger-to-NATO-states

clonan scaremongering again, newstalk misleading.

expectationlost

"Russian aircraft flew within Irish airspace http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0219/681373-russian-aircraft-raf-escort/" RTE lying again

ProfessorPlum

expectationlost wrote: »

"Russian aircraft flew within Irish airspace http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0219/681373-russian-aircraft-raf-escort/" RTE lying again

Lying?

That article is factual and actually very clear about correctly defining and differentiating what is Irsh sovereign airspace and Irish controlled airspace.

Did you just read the title and get confused?

expectationlost

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Lying?

That article is factual and actually very clear about correctly defining and differentiating what is Irsh sovereign airspace and Irish controlled airspace.

Did you just read the title and get confused?

its the headline on the front page http://www.rte.ie/news/
Russian aircraft flew within Irish airspace

thats lying.

when you click the tweet button this is what you get "Russian aircraft flew within Irish airspace http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0219/681373-russian-aircraft-raf-escort/"

snubbleste

Russian Bear flew over North Cornwall says eyewitness. RAF says No.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/19/russian-bomber-flew-inland-cornwall-uk-airspace-witness

CardinalJ

snubbleste wrote: »

Russian Bear flew over North Cornwall says eyewitness. RAF says No.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/19/russian-bomber-flew-inland-cornwall-uk-airspace-witness

If it did the RAF/Gov wouldn't be publicising it. Reflects on them pretty badly

fr336

Tabnabs wrote: »

The view from the other side, literally.

A great video taken from the Tu-95 of her fighter "escort".

http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201502181902-tr6s.htm

Surreal.

Pat Dunne

CardinalJ wrote: »

If it did the RAF/Gov wouldn't be publicising it. Reflects on them pretty badly

Have a look at the playback on FR24, 18th Feb between 17:00 and 19:00 and follow the RAF KC2 Tanker QZ68 which flew some interesting circuits off the west coast of Cornwall / Celtic Sea area at the time this was all happening.