Russian military jets 'disrupted UK aviation'

JeffK88

Wouldnt expect any less from the government. Sure weren't the british fighters who were tailing the Russian bombers endangering commercial traffic and violating our airspace too. When did the DOD find out about these routine flights. Oh wait neither were in our airspace so why should we we care. Russia isn't an enemy of Ireland and up until recently we enjoyed pretty good relations and probably still do. Sure isn't good old Mikey O leary proposing entering the Russian market and connecting Dublin with a number of Russian destinations.

geoff35

Afaik the British include Ireland in its area of defence...thats why they sent the jets..

Storm 10

There was a guy on the radio yesterday who said the Typhoons were transmitting their positions at all times during the incident, this helped to keep an eye on where the Russians were as they Typhoons flew with them in formations.

expectationlost

geoff35 wrote: »

Afaik the British include Ireland in its area of defence...thats why they sent the jets..

did the UK send its jets to Irish airspace when Russia flew it planes down the west coast of Ireland in October?

Pladimir Vutin

Problem?

JeffK88

geoff35 wrote: »

Afaik the British include Ireland in its area of defence...thats why they sent the jets..

Is this some sort of agreement we have made with the UK considering we have little or no air defence. Or just something that is done because we can do nothing about it ?

KingBrian2

Nim wrote: »

Who are we neutral against? :pac:

We allow commercial airlines to use our airspace and military aircraft to refuel here but under no circumstance should we expose ourselves to enemy attacks. If Britain a NATO country was to start warring with Russia we would most certainly be impacted but not in the way we all think but rather economically not militarily. Russian Jets flying over the Irish countryside followed by British Jets and before long the Americans, and other NATO countries will be drawn in. If their is one thing we should learn from being neutral in WW2 belligerents won't respect countries that wont defend themselves. The Swiss made sure no Nazis invaded their country.

Storm 10

There is no such thing as warring with each other, the next war if there is one will be nuclear and there will be nothing we will or could do about it, if you think for one minute this little Country of ours could defend our neutrality think again .

porsche959

JeffK88 wrote: »

Im tired of all this media hype with russian bombers here and there , cold war is back and the cherry on top is " Capable of carrying nuclear weapons" well ladies and gentlemen a flatbed truck with no wheels and engine is technically "capable" of carrying nuclear weapons. These flights while yes very dangerous for commercial traffic but are not a new thing and unless we have been in a new cold war for the past decade, this is all media hype as usual.
Check out these past threads on similar topics in the past years here on boards.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70302409

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53740281

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55114472

Nothing new here just scare tactics the media love to do so sleep easy no bombs be dropping on our dear green isle or any other for that matter.

Rant over

(Sorry couldn't find any other threads on this subject and didn't want to start a new one)

The Russian strategy seems to be to show up Western hypocrisy in tearing up the rule book with regard to the invasion of Iraq and similar events.

Putin is saying "So it is obvious you don't comply with your own rules any more, fine f.uck you, why should we."

As for neutrality, the Russians view us as part of EU and therefore involved in the Ukrainian adventure on some level.

expectationlost

KingBrian2 wrote: »

We allow commercial airlines to use our airspace and military aircraft to refuel here but under no circumstance should we expose ourselves to enemy attacks. If Britain a NATO country was to start warring with Russia we would most certainly be impacted but not in the way we all think but rather economically not militarily. Russian Jets flying over the Irish countryside followed by British Jets and before long the Americans, and other NATO countries will be drawn in. If their is one thing we should learn from being neutral in WW2 belligerents won't respect countries that wont defend themselves. The Swiss made sure no Nazis invaded their country.

Russian Jets flying over the Irish countryside

^this didn't happen^

geneva geneva4444

JeffK88 wrote: »

Wouldnt expect any less from the government. Sure weren't the british fighters who were tailing the Russian bombers endangering commercial traffic and violating our airspace too. When did the DOD find out about these routine flights. Oh wait neither were in our airspace so why should we we care. Russia isn't an enemy of Ireland and up until recently we enjoyed pretty good relations and probably still do. Sure isn't good old Mikey O leary proposing entering the Russian market and connecting Dublin with a number of Russian destinations.

It may not be Irish domestic airspace but it is Irish controlled airspace. Ireland is responsible for the safety of controlled commercial air traffic in the area west of Ireland and we are also responsible for search and rescue in this area.
If any aircraft is operating in controlled airspace with its transponder switched off, it is essentially invisible to civilian ATC. But for the hugely impressive long range radar capabilities that UK Mil possess, Irish ATC and the Air Corps would never have known about the Russian aircraft, until they come within the primary radar coverage of Irish ATC.

As for the British fighters endangering traffic, no. UK Mil would have been coordinating with Irish civil and mil ATC at all times.

expectationlost

geneva geneva4444 wrote: »

It may not be Irish domestic airspace but it is Irish controlled airspace. Ireland is responsible for the safety of controlled commercial air traffic in the area west of Ireland and we are also responsible for search and rescue in this area.
If any aircraft is operating in controlled airspace with its transponder switched off, it is essentially invisible to civilian ATC. But for the hugely impressive long range radar capabilities that UK Mil possess, Irish ATC and the Air Corps would never have known about the Russian aircraft, until they come within the primary radar coverage of Irish ATC.

As for the British fighters endangering traffic, no. UK Mil would have been coordinating with Irish civil and mil ATC at all times.

do those planes fly (or cruise?) at diffferent height to regular air traffic?

Preset No.3

JeffK88 wrote: »

Sure isn't good old Mikey O leary proposing entering the Russian market and connecting Dublin with a number of Russian destinations.

And the Ryanair hype continues!

Preset No.3

KingBrian2 wrote: »

We allow commercial airlines to use our airspace and military aircraft to refuel here but under no circumstance should we expose ourselves to enemy attacks. If Britain a NATO country was to start warring with Russia we would most certainly be impacted but not in the way we all think but rather economically not militarily. Russian Jets flying over the Irish countryside followed by British Jets and before long the Americans, and other NATO countries will be drawn in. If their is one thing we should learn from being neutral in WW2 belligerents won't respect countries that wont defend themselves. The Swiss made sure no Nazis invaded their country.

I don't think you saw my previous Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha about Ireland's neutrality!!!!!

arubex

expectationlost wrote: »

do those planes fly (or cruise?) at diffferent height to regular air traffic?

Tu-95s cruise in the low / mid-30,000s, so bang in the middle of most air traffic.

They are remarkably fast for turborpops , sustaining Mach 0.7 to 0.8.

They used to cause problems for the RAF's Tornado F3s which were anaemic at altitude and often had to plug-in partial reheat to hold with the Tu-95s, particularly if the Soviet pilots started playing around with them.

KingBrian2

Preset No.3 wrote: »

I don't think you saw my previous Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha about Ireland's neutrality!!!!!

You are contradicting Irish foreign policy since before World War 2 so please explain instead of laughing it off.

Is Ireland currently engaged in military actions that conflict with our stance on neutrality? If so please elaborate. I am serious and not trying to be sarcastic even if I come across that way

Fratton Fred

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Battle_Group

Ireland has a policy of non alignment, not neutrality. the neutral thing is to appease the vocal minority and to justify underspending on the armed forces.

A neutral country should at least be able to defend itself.

KingBrian2

Fratton Fred wrote: »

A neutral country should at least be able to defend itself.

At least we agree on one thing.

JeffK88

No such thing as a Neutral country in the modern world. If a major outbreak of war occurs every country the conflict is near will be drawn in one way or another. Switzerland, Austria the Nordic states, Panama, Turkmenistan and Ireland claim neutrality while in reality pretty much all of these countries side with american policy or interests bar maybe Turkmenistan.

expectationlost

a little more info on this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B83tyPnCAAAyY7t.jpg:large

these planes were in the irish controlled airspace here http://www.usaflightsupport.com/images/IrishAirspaceMap.jpg rahter then just the shanwick oceanic space?

is there an international air corridor between britain and france,(i presume not), ie although the russia planes where heading in direction of flying across the channel tunnel they would have had to turn around themselves if they didn't want enter british or french sovereign airspace?

kub

expectationlost wrote: »

a little more info on this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B83tyPnCAAAyY7t.jpg:large

I wonder were Shannon informed by Civilian ATC UK or did RAF contact Irish Air Corp who contacted Shannon.

Either-way, its like 1950's Ireland is still alive and well, that we have to rely on another country to tell us about this and indeed to act on our behalf.

expectationlost

kub wrote: »

I wonder were Shannon informed by Civilian ATC UK or did RAF contact Irish Air Corp who contacted Shannon.

Either-way, its like 1950's Ireland is still alive and well, that we have to rely on another country to tell us about this and indeed to act on our behalf.

what action was necessary? the IAA said that civilian flights weren't affected.

LXFlyer

kub wrote: »

I wonder were Shannon informed by Civilian ATC UK or did RAF contact Irish Air Corp who contacted Shannon.

Either-way, its like 1950's Ireland is still alive and well, that we have to rely on another country to tell us about this and indeed to act on our behalf.

And perhaps you might enlighten us as to what capabilities Ireland has ever had for dealing with something like this, apart from delivering a strongly worded letter of protest?

JeffK88

Were;re the mustard seed in the ham sandwich that is between the major superpowers of the world. Not much we really can do but cross and fingers and hope they all just get along.

KingBrian2

lxflyer wrote: »

And perhaps you might enlighten us as to what capabilities Ireland has ever had for dealing with something like this, apart from delivering a strongly worded letter of protest?

In the 1970's we burnt down the British Embassy hardly our finest hour. We should be capable of deterring enemy states from violating our sovereignty without resorting to a strongly worded letter. Anti aircraft weapons are an acceptable form of deterrence. They might think a little bit before entering our airspace or interfering with important commercial and navigational corridors.

kub

lxflyer wrote: »

And perhaps you might enlighten us as to what capabilities Ireland has ever had for dealing with something like this, apart from delivering a strongly worded letter of protest?

We don't as i have mentioned pages back.....:rolleyes:

Aerohead

KingBrian2 wrote: »

In the 1970's we burnt down the British Embassy hardly our finest hour. We should be capable of deterring enemy states from violating our sovereignty without resorting to a strongly worded letter. Anti aircraft weapons are an acceptable form of deterrence. They might think a little bit before entering our airspace or interfering with important commercial and navigational corridors.

What planet are you from I cant believe the rubbish you just posted.

KingBrian2

Aerohead wrote: »

What planet are you from I cant believe the rubbish you just posted.

People believe we should go without a strong defence system to defend our neutrality.

expectationlost

Irish Examiner and Tom Clonan teaming up for some indistinct scaremongering

Russian jets using Irish air space ‘unacceptable’
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/russian-jets-using-irish-air-space-unacceptable-311449.html
not jets, not in Irish airspace

‘If terrorists take a plane in Irish space, it’s game over’
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/if-terrorists-take-a-plane-in-irish-space-its-game-over-311909.html#.VNtLYGaoBIE.twitter

One of the country’s leading security experts says the recent incursion by two Russian Tupulov TU-95 ‘Bear’ bombers highlights a potentially dangerous situation in the skies above us that we can cannot affect.

what incursion?

arubex

Ugh, those articles were awful.

From the second one, for example:

If the Air Corps was equipped with jets, even the most inexpensive, they could easily intercept military and civil aircraft.

What tosh; even a Hawk, one of the fastest subsonic types, would have to have a very good lead-time and interception course and a big dollop of luck to hope to catch an airliner at full-chat and FL400.

Nevermind if the opposing pilot was trying to make things difficult... or if the interceptor was starting from cold in a hangar at Baldonnel.

Unless an air force can afford a bunch of [ Typhoons / Gripens / knackered F-16s ], maintenance, training, over 200 hours of flying per year per pilot, weapons and perhaps a couple of tankers then there's no point trying to join the airspace-dominance club.