Russian military jets 'disrupted UK aviation'

durandal01

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31049952
Lots of words in quotation marks so we must take this very seriously
Any one notice this crowd of the west coast yesterday.

arubex

If you do a playback on FR24 for the 28th and look for callsign Q4G68 you can follow the day-long chase

fits

Its happening so often in the Baltic sea I don't think the media are even bothering to report it any more.

PukkaStukka

What altitude were those Bears flying at? Were they are or above what the civilian traffic was flying at?

afatbollix

Anyone know if the british jets flew over Ireland? or the tanker?

Might have the answer that no one knows if Ireland was being attacked would the British send something over.

Doylers

afatbollix wrote: »

Anyone know if the british jets flew over Ireland? or the tanker?

Might have the answer that no one knows if Ireland was being attacked would the British send something over.

Dont Ireland have an agreement for the British to look after our airspace. So say if someone was aggressive in our airspace they'd look after it. Could be wrong just think I remember seeing it on here a while back

arubex

Doylers wrote: »

Dont Ireland have an agreement for the British to look after our airspace.

Yes there is a 'gentlemens' agreement' that the Irish Gov can request UK assets to assist.

But by what little is known it is quite informal, starting with ATC and going up and down the chains of government.

Aerohead

Some more here on the Indo, wonder if the Air Corps would have radar contact with them like the UK had. I heard on some radio yesterday that they were seen off Bournemouth ??

Link: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/russian-nuclear-bomber-planes-fly-off-west-coast-of-ireland-as-british-typhoon-fighters-scrambled-30949988.html

afatbollix

Ya they flew north sea, Atlantic, west coast of Ireland into the English channel before turning back by the same route.

kub

There was some expert on Morning Ireland who said that in order for Irish ATC to notice them they would need to be within 70 NM of Dublin/ Cork and Shannon airports.
I bet the Russians knew that and must have known that there are 3rd world countries with better military radar than us.
Also I think RAF consider Irish airspace an area of special interest to them, they know as well as we do that we do not have the necessary capability.

PukkaStukka

kub wrote: »

There was some expert on Morning Ireland who said that in order for Irish ATC to notice them they would need to be within 70 NM of Dublin/ Cork and Shannon airports.
I bet the Russians knew that and must have known that there are 3rd world countries with better military radar than us.
Also I think RAF consider Irish airspace an area of special interest to them, they know as well as we do that we do not have the necessary capability.

I think it was Fintan Ryan whom I've heard and seen before. He is a retired Aer Lingus captain and I was at a function before we he has a speaker. Excellent, informative and very entertaining man he is.

His comments for me on the radio today were bang on the mark. Switching of a transponders in close proxmity to busy transatlantic air corridors is about as intelligent as turning of your car lights at speed on a dark foggy motorway.

testicle

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Switching of a transponders in close proxmity to busy transatlantic air corridors is about as intelligent as turning of your car lights at speed on a dark foggy motorway.

They didn't switch off their own radar though, which would allow them to avoid other traffic.

kub

kub wrote: »

There was some expert on Morning Ireland who said that in order for Irish ATC to notice them they would need to be within 70 NM of Dublin/ Cork and Shannon airports.
I bet the Russians knew that and must have known that there are 3rd world countries with better military radar than us.
Also I think RAF consider Irish airspace an area of special interest to them, they know as well as we do that we do not have the necessary capability.

The Irish Air Corp use civilian radars effective range for secondary (transponder) is c250nms and primary is about c70nms.

FR24 should radar plot of tanker being off N Ireland before heading south via IOM and Wales to off Lands end I'm sure the Typhoons will have done similar and not needed to enter Irish airspace. Most likely there was an AWACS tracking the Bears as well and giving Irish ATC an update of position and level if needed.

SpaceTime

The problem with this is that they'll either cause an accident or provoke a military response should they stray too far in. They're getting too close for comfort.

Tabnabs

SpaceTime wrote: »

The problem with this is that they'll either cause an accident or provoke a military response should they stray too far in. They're getting too close for comfort.

The American's flew U2 spy planes right over Soviet territory at the height of the Cold War, even had one shot down and nothing catastrophic came out of it.

Baring any accidents or breakdowns, it's all carefully choreographed and highly restrained. They send a message, we respond in kind.

SpaceTime

Tabnabs wrote: »

The American's flew U2 spy planes right over Soviet territory at the height of the Cold War, even had one shot down and nothing catastrophic came out of it.

Baring any accidents or breakdowns, it's all carefully choreographed and highly restrained. They send a message, we respond in kind.

Big difference between that and a heavy bomber though. You'd never know what might be on board. They're capable of carrying nuclear warheads.

U2 spy plane being shot down is not likely to cause an ecological disaster.

It's unlikely they'd have nukes on board but this is Putin's Russia we're talking about. The USSR seemed more rational.

Aerohead

There is nothing anyone could do if they decided to fly over the likes of London or mainland UK or Europe, it may lead to a lot of chatter on the airwaves but they would not be shot down, one day they may try this as according to the news today there have been 400 of these contacts in 2014 and two already this week.

kub

Deleted User wrote: »

The Irish Air Corp use civilian radars effective range for secondary (transponder) is c250nms and primary is about c70nms.

FR24 should radar plot of tanker being off N Ireland before heading south via IOM and Wales to off Lands end I'm sure the Typhoons will have done similar and not needed to enter Irish airspace. Most likely there was an AWACS tracking the Bears as well and giving Irish ATC an update of position and level if needed.

So for all we know the Air Corp could have detected them and informed the RAF which maybe SOP?

mikom

They'll be marching up shop street in Galway soon.

Growler!!!

My father has the joy of having an apartment in Spain. It's in a small sleepy village called Palomares and he loves it there. After he bought it he was told of 2 planes crashing nearby in the 60's:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_Palomares_B-52_crash

PukkaStukka

testicle wrote: »

They didn't switch off their own radar though, which would allow them to avoid other traffic.

But it would have made them far less visible to others and taken out TCAS.

weisses

Had a Phantom crashing about 1 km of our home (1983)




RF-4C Phantom 68‑0556 1st TRS‑10th TRW

Both pilots ejected .... was during a low level exercise ... Friend told me the loudest sound came from the ejection seats

kub

kub wrote: »

So for all we know the Air Corp could have detected them and informed the RAF which maybe SOP?

No first contact will most likely have been the Finns or Norwegians. Air Corp will have been informed at some stage and advised the civies and that will have been the total of the Irish response.

highlydebased

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/561193364482433024

Aerohead

Here they come now from the Dail

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0130/676779-airspace/

Preset No.3

@GregHughes2 @breakingnewsie Strange sight in the skies over Donegal today, a jet being escorted by 3 fighter jets http://t.co/AjVRJWkB0t

Just seen on Twitter

sjb25

highlydebased wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/561193364482433024

So the actually entered Irish airspace not just skirted round it?

sjb25

Preset No.3 wrote: »

@GregHughes2 @breakingnewsie Strange sight in the skies over Donegal today, a jet being escorted by 3 fighter jets http://t.co/AjVRJWkB0t

Just seen on Twitter

So the Russians and the Brits all in Irish airspace lovely

sjb25

sjb25 wrote: »

So the Russians and the Brits all in Irish airspace lovely

Probably a normal transit of fighter aircraft from Canada to Europe with a tanker

The Key word was "OVER".

b757

Preset No.3 wrote: »

@GregHughes2 @breakingnewsie Strange sight in the skies over Donegal today, a jet being escorted by 3 fighter jets http://t.co/AjVRJWkB0t

Just seen on Twitter

3 USAF f15 and a KC10

sjb25

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably a normal transit of fighter aircraft from Canada to Europe with a tanker

The Key word was "OVER".

Ahh I see

Elmer Blooker

sjb25 wrote: »

So the actually entered Irish airspace not just skirted round it?

No. - from RTE news:

The Russian Bear military aircraft did not enter Irish sovereign airspace and there was no risk to commercial aircraft operating in the area at the time.

I wouldn't pay much attention to it. Its all just part of the anti Russia hysteria to keep the yanks happy. The Irish Govt will "strongly object" - the US will approve and Inda will be in the White House next Paddy's Day and everyone's happy

cml387

Lots of hystericity about this.

"Irish controlled airspace " extends to nearly 400 miles off the west coast.

This was situation normal in the 1980's, and nobody batted an eyelid much then. In a way it's a nostalgia kick for us old'uns.
The RAF should dust off a Lightning and send one up for a photo op.

Snowc

A mate on a deep water trawler fishing off the mayo coast heard this pass over them and said it was extremely loud and unusual sounding.Anybody any idea what altitude it was travelling at?

Cathal

sjb25

cml387 wrote: »

Lots of hystericity about this.

"Irish controlled airspace " extends to nearly 400 miles off the west coast.

This was situation normal in the 1980's, and nobody batted an eyelid much then. In a way it's a nostalgia kick for us old'uns.
The RAF should dust off a Lightning and send one up for a photo op.

Ah that makes more sense

caustic 1

b757 wrote: »

3 USAF f15 and a KC10

What are they? sorry new to your forum, didn't even know you guys were lurking around here. I saw this today fly over Donegal. It was around 3 and very loud which made me look up. Was as high as regular planes I see going over but different sound and had 3 small planes with it one on each side and one behind. Have never seen anything like it before and there would be a lot of planes fly overhead each day.

Apologies for intrusion into your forum.

caustic 1

caustic 1 wrote: »

What are they? sorry new to your forum, didn't even know you guys were lurking around here. I saw this today fly over Donegal. It was around 3 and very loud which made me look up. Was as high as regular planes I see going over but different sound and had 3 small planes with it one on each side and one behind. Have never seen anything like it before and there would be a lot of planes fly overhead each day.

Apologies for intrusion into your forum.

Lakenheath F15 by Paul Rowbotham, on Flickr

KC10-Extender-tanker-refueling-aircraft-gear-down-flyby-Travis-AFB-4.jpg by RogueSocks, on Flickr

arubex

caustic 1 wrote: »

What are they? sorry new to your forum, didn't even know you guys were lurking around here. I saw this today fly over Donegal. It was around 3 and very loud which made me look up.

The three F-15s ( the small contrails ) were returning to RAF Lakenheath in England from a training exercise in the USA.

I think the KC-10, the tanker / transport, went to RAF Mildenhall just up the road from that base.

The KC-10 ( like the RAF's new Voyagers ) not only refuels the fighters during a transit and provides navigation but also carries the support equipment and personnel that deployed with them.

These gaggles of aircraft are fairly irregular over Ireland but are pretty constant across the Atlantic. They are often referred to as 'drags' but of course the tanker doesn't physically pull the fighters! They just connect when they need fuel.

What is common over Ireland are tankers deploying to and from Europe without fighters; those are usually at higher altitudes, 36,000ft +, because they are light. The 'drags' take place between 24 and 32,000 ft. Today's was 29,000.

Preset No.3

Anyway doesn't really matter. IS could be overhead Leinster house and we would not have the air capacity to do anything about it. We also couldn't buy anything because every whingebag would be on to Joe Duffy complaining about the waste of money when there is single mothers without a drop of vodka or the homeless crisis or water charges.

Those PC-9's were such a waste of money.

kub

I wonder will the IAA pop an Invoice in the post to Moscow for 2 of their aircraft using Irish Controlled Airspace.

b757

Got lucky one day, 2 USAF KC135's flew in formation right over me to meet 2 B2 Bombers at the west coast of Ireland. FL210, and 220.

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Anyway doesn't really matter. IS could be overhead Leinster house and we would not have the air capacity to do anything about it. We also couldn't buy anything because every whingebag would be on to Joe Duffy complaining about the waste of money when there is single mothers without a drop of vodka or the homeless crisis or water charges.

Those PC-9's were such a waste of money.

The PC9's are only trainers, then they get moved "up" to the Cessna's.. :rolleyes:

KingBrian2

arubex wrote: »

Yes there is a 'gentlemens' agreement' that the Irish Gov can request UK assets to assist.

But by what little is known it is quite informal, starting with ATC and going up and down the chains of government.

We should have no agreement that British air forces be allowed to enter Irish airspace. Especially during this time of NATO offensives. If Russia and Britain want to go to blows then take it somewhere else. We are neutral and should some hothead get trigger friendly we will have dog fights off the Irish coast.

In this time of rapid militarisation we should adopt what other neutral nations do. Build up sound defence forces. Switzerland has a massive army to prevent it from invasion so instead of us relying on British jets to be very generous and escort the Russian Jets away from good old Ireland we should have proper aerial defences that will neutralise enemies that would want to do us harm. Sure do they not tell us that with international pirates, dug dealers and Islamists we must fight terrorists I see aerial defences as a core part of defending ourselves should our neutrality be violated.

KingBrian2

NATO must have got so used to flying over Sovereign countries air space as we have seen in Syria that they have become complacent. It is just routine to assist smaller nations that have smaller air defences.

caustic 1

Thanks for replies, mystery solved.

meathstevie

testicle wrote: »

They didn't switch off their own radar though, which would allow them to avoid other traffic.

And Typhoons to pinpoint them.

Preset No.3

KingBrian2 wrote: »

. We are neutral

.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!! Oh yeah, sure we are!!!!!

geneva geneva4444

Era the Russians need a bit of breathing room, cos with a land area of 17 MILLION square kms (terms and conditions apply), tis a bit pokey.

T&C's: Crimea not included

The three F15s were spotted above Manchester and made a bit of a stir there as well. Featured in the Manchester evening news.

Storm 10

KingBrian2 go back into your bubble , if you think for one minute that if something we're to happen between Russia and the UK and it would not effect us you are in dreamland, we are a tiny Island and if anything ever happened here we would be pleading with the UK or US for assistance.

expectationlost

do any other foreign military aircraft traverse the irish controlled airspace without telling us

(seperate to any that have asked permission)

GHOST MGG

Those 2 american f-16s nearly took my roof off during the summer after that football game it town...
thought we were being invaded by china!