If Greece can do it, Ireland certainly can..

Galwayguy35

For Reals wrote: »

Eh...aren't Labour still claiming to be left? To be fair in practice, no, but still.



Great switcharoo there boss. Surely you mean Fine Gael? You can't accuse our 'da left', (Shredder, Skeletor and C.O.B.R.A, as I imagine you and others on here view 'the left') of making pre-election promises and not following through. That's Fine Gael territory and to the extent they can be still viewed as a viable party at all, labour.

Long may we continue to allow Fianna Fail push us over the abyss, get scolded by Fine Gael and bring Fianna Fail back in!

Well "boss" I was listening to one of the representatives of the Left earlier on tonight.

Ruth Coppinger was on the Vincent Browne show, she's like a broken record at this stage, gave out yards about the Government but no policies of her own.

BoJack Horseman

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Ruth Coppinger was on the Vincent Browne show, she's like a broken record at this stage, gave out yards about the Government but no policies of her own.

Members of the communist fringe uttering actual policy may be as rare as a unicorn brawl on Merrion Square under a blue moon.

But on those special rare occasions when they do, the crazy just can't help come out

(Some audio from Komrade Ruthovich Koppingisky.... For chuckles)
http://www.newstalk.com/player/listen_back/8/14013/04th_November_2014_-_Moncrieff_Part_1

For Reals

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well "boss" I was listening to one of the representatives of the Left earlier on tonight.

Ruth Coppinger was on the Vincent Browne show, she's like a broken record at this stage, gave out yards about the Government but no policies of her own.

There you go comrade, "I was listening to one of the representatives of the Left". It's not one big party you know. Are Fianna Fail and Fine Gael one big party? ...oh..wait

Also having no policies, (in your view) and being in government chopping and changing as the wind blows are not that different.

For Reals

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Members of the communist fringe uttering actual policy may be as rare as a unicorn brawl on Merrion Square under a blue moon.

But on those special rare occasions when they do, the crazy just can't help come out

(Some audio from Komrade Ruthovich Koppingisky.... For chuckles)
http://www.newstalk.com/player/listen_back/8/14013/04th_November_2014_-_Moncrieff_Part_1

In the interest of continuity....

Members of the jack booted right in this country come out with all sorts of insane nonsense but if swept under the imperialistic rug of Herr Führer, it's shrugged off as if it were a minister sexually harassing a female colleague at a Dail debate.

"Mr Coonan told the Dáil the State was facing “what is potentially an Isis situation” if anti-water charge protesters were allowed to continue with their demonstrations."
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/state-faces-potential-isis-situation-over-water-protests-1.2009289

"Mr Barry last week pulled colleague Aine Collins on to his lap during a late-night Dail sitting on the abortion bill."
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/lapgate-td-apologises-to-colleagues-29429525.html

Galwayguy35

For Reals wrote: »

There you go comrade, "I was listening to one of the representatives of the Left". It's not one big party you know. Are Fianna Fail and Fine Gael one big party? ...oh..wait

Also having no policies, (in your view) and being in government chopping and changing as the wind blows are not that different.

No it's not one party but they are all singing from the same hymn sheet, secondly I stand over what I said about policies, or in this case lack of them.

When pushed on it all we hear is "tax the rich", especially from Boyd Barrett who gets very flustered when asked to be more specific on an alternative way to what's on offer.

But sure they will get elected by people who can't see past the guy putting down the water meter outside their wall.

PeadarCo

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No it's not one party but they are all singing from the same hymn sheet, secondly I stand over what I said about policies, or in this case lack of them.

When pushed on it all we hear is "tax the rich", especially from Boyd Barrett who gets very flustered when asked to be more specific on an alternative way to what's on offer.

But sure they will get elected by people who can't see past the guy putting down the water meter outside their wall.

To be fair its not a problem associated solely with the left. Opposition in Ireland in Ireland is about criticizing the government not actually producing alternative policies.

Even the term left/right wing is a misnomer in Ireland. Fine Gael supposedly right wing have be criticized by so called left wing parties for implementing the property tax a form of wealth taxation. Any genuine left wing party should have been celebrating not out on the street protesting.

Even Sinn Fein when the chance came up in NI they backed down when push came to shove. No reason they wouldn't do the same if they'd been given the chance here. Whatever about their history, in more recent times in Northern Ireland they have a good record of doing massive u-turns that benefit people as a whole.

For Reals

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

No it's not one party but they are all singing from the same hymn sheet, secondly I stand over what I said about policies, or in this case lack of them.

When pushed on it all we hear is "tax the rich", especially from Boyd Barrett who gets very flustered when asked to be more specific on an alternative way to what's on offer.

But sure they will get elected by people who can't see past the guy putting down the water meter outside their wall.

Where as Fianna Fail and Fine Gael tax the poor to bolster the position of the rich, or am I generalising too much here?

For Reals

PeadarCo wrote: »

To be fair its not a problem associated solely with the left. Opposition in Ireland in Ireland is about criticizing the government not actually producing alternative policies.

Even the term left/right wing is a misnomer in Ireland. Fine Gael supposedly right wing have be criticized by so called left wing parties for implementing the property tax a form of wealth taxation. Any genuine left wing party should have been celebrating not out on the street protesting.

Even Sinn Fein when the chance came up in NI they backed down when push came to shove. No reason they wouldn't do the same if they'd been given the chance here. Whatever about their history, in more recent times in Northern Ireland they have a good record of doing massive u-turns that benefit people as a whole.

You have no basis to measure this because we've never had a left, or viewed as left government. And by who's compass are any party left except by how they treat the lowly tax payer who never set foot in the K club?
It's sickening the way people post on here crying foul should the wealthy be taxed, like it's a scandal, but we bleed dry the working poor everyday and that's okay if it makes the books balance, the books mind you not quality of life. It's not all as matter of fact as you post above, well depends on your station I suppose.

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

Where as Fianna Fail and Fine Gael tax the poor to bolster the position of the rich, or am I generalising too much here?

Yes, ridiculously & innacurately so

You probably know that though

yipeeeee

For Reals wrote: »

You have no basis to measure this because we've never had a left, or viewed as left government. And by who's compass are any party left except by how they treat the lowly tax payer who never set foot in the K club?
It's sickening the way people post on here crying foul should the wealthy be taxed, like it's a scandal, but we bleed dry the working poor everyday and that's okay if it makes the books balance, the books mind you not quality of life. It's not all as matter of fact as you post above, well depends on your station I suppose.

Define the poor please?

PeadarCo

For Reals wrote: »

You have no basis to measure this because we've never had a left, or viewed as left government. And by who's compass are any party left except by how they treat the lowly tax payer who never set foot in the K club?
It's sickening the way people post on here crying foul should the wealthy be taxed, like it's a scandal, but we bleed dry the working poor everyday and that's okay if it makes the books balance, the books mind you not quality of life. It's not all as matter of fact as you post above, well depends on your station I suppose.

So basically your quoting my post but ignoring everything I said, not a type of debating that interests me.

Ave Sodalis

OP ignoring the rest of your post for the moment... you can't just produce and produce, and fish and fish until our heart's content. You'll exhaust the resources quicker than you can replenish them. Caps are there for a reason.

tralalala

"For starters tell the IMF, ECB and the bond holders/gamblers should be told to feck off."

Borrow to pay for our pensions and benefits, then do not pay back plus giving the fingers = stealing.

Thanks to the "gamblers" who lended money to Ireland in time of need.


" Get out of the EU, get rid of the euro and back to the punt"

Say goodbye to all the EU funded transport projects, thanks for the free roads and railways suckers.
Say goodbye to all the US companies and factories.


"become sovereign again."

want to be managed by the idiot Irish politicians, who have no clue what they are doing ? (housing bubble, irish crisis 2009, abortion laws from the XIX century)?


" Export as much as we wish, to who we wish, do away with farmers subsidies to not grow good crops on good fertile land, most our land is wasted on doing nothing."

If all European countries do this, nasty price war with terrible consequences

RecordStraight

stuar wrote: »

Export as much as we wish, to who we wish, do away with farmers subsidies to not grow good crops on good fertile land, most our land is wasted on doing nothing.

Uh...81% is in pasture. Pasture isn't land that isn't in use. That's where we grow cows.

View

For Reals wrote: »

Where as Fianna Fail and Fine Gael tax the poor to bolster the position of the rich, or am I generalising too much here?

The average poor person is a net recipient of monies from the State - it is hard to see how that counts as bolstering the position of anyone else in society.

RecordStraight

For Reals wrote: »

Where as Fianna Fail and Fine Gael tax the poor to bolster the position of the rich, or am I generalising too much here?

The vast majority of people in Ireland pay no tax at all, net of benefits received. The people who do pay tax? The wealthier folks.

Courtesy of TCD's Ronan Lyons:

And now, to reveal the answers, with some interesting facts about Ireland’s income tax system along the way:
Ireland’s top 0.5% of earners, the 11,714 people who earned more than €275,000 in a year, paid almost 18% of all income tax, over €2bn in total. Their average tax rate was 27.5%.
Almost 770,000 people earned less than €17,000. Understandably, given tax credits, these workers paid a tiny amount of tax, €20m in total. Their average tax rate was about 0.5%.
It’s in the middle, though, where things seem to go all screwy. The median earner, earning about €25,000, paid just 4% in income tax! As I argued before, we seem to have got ourselves into a situation where the typical Irish worker pays hardly any income tax and yet seems to think they are heavily taxed.
So, to go back to the quiz above, the answers are:
Option 4 – the average millionaire pays six times the income tax rate of the average worker. There’s one thing the system ain’t and that’s regressive!
Option 5 – amazingly, two thirds of the 2.2m people paying income tax in Ireland paid an average rate of less than 10%.
Option 1 – as per above, the median earner pays about 4% in income tax in Ireland, compared to 20% in the OECD.

AlekSmart

RecordStraight wrote: »

The vast majority of people in Ireland pay no tax at all, net of benefits received. The people who do pay tax? The wealthier folks.

Courtesy of TCD's Ronan Lyons:

And now, to reveal the answers, with some interesting facts about Ireland’s income tax system along the way:
Ireland’s top 0.5% of earners, the 11,714 people who earned more than €275,000 in a year, paid almost 18% of all income tax, over €2bn in total. Their average tax rate was 27.5%.
Almost 770,000 people earned less than €17,000. Understandably, given tax credits, these workers paid a tiny amount of tax, €20m in total. Their average tax rate was about 0.5%.
It’s in the middle, though, where things seem to go all screwy. The median earner, earning about €25,000, paid just 4% in income tax! As I argued before, we seem to have got ourselves into a situation where the typical Irish worker pays hardly any income tax and yet seems to think they are heavily taxed.
So, to go back to the quiz above, the answers are:
Option 4 – the average millionaire pays six times the income tax rate of the average worker. There’s one thing the system ain’t and that’s regressive!
Option 5 – amazingly, two thirds of the 2.2m people paying income tax in Ireland paid an average rate of less than 10%.
Option 1 – as per above, the median earner pays about 4% in income tax in Ireland, compared to 20% in the OECD.

Ah yes..BUT !... Denis O'Brien took a sickie that day....another cunning tax-evading stunt....:D

Good loser

Has anybody heard are Syriza going to abolish Property Tax and Water Charges?

I did hear a quite long list of what they plan to do - but these weren't in it.

ArmaniJeanss

stuar wrote: »

Get out of the EU, get rid of the euro and back to the punt, become sovereign again.

........
Export as much as we wish, to who we wish, do away with farmers subsidies to not grow good crops on good fertile land, most our land is wasted on doing nothing.

And what happens if (and its likely) the EU puts €50K a tonne tariffs on our food exports, in order to correctly protect their own beef/dairy/pig farmers.

RecordStraight

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

And what happens if (and its likely) the EU puts €50K a tonne tariffs on our food exports, in order to correctly protect their own beef/dairy/pig farmers.

We'll just bribe them with our massive oil wealth.

For Reals

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Yes, ridiculously & innacurately so

You probably know that though

that was my point. Feel free to jump in there when the generalising resumes against De left.

For Reals

View wrote: »

The average poor person is a net recipient of monies from the State - it is hard to see how that counts as bolstering the position of anyone else in society.

Imagine you work minimum wage. The Celtic tiger boom comes, you're not buying holiday homes abroad but maybe you bought a fancy car because credit was falling from the skies, but apart from that you never added a wing to your house, if you had one. Then roll in Fine Gael to ensure we bail out private bond holders and pay the piper for voting Fianna Fail.
Times are tougher, but you never reaped any windfall, made any fortune to lose. Maybe you even voted Fine Gael because Enda promised the earth. So even though he lied and just kept greasing the wheels of this broken system, it's your fault....just as it's possibly your fault for the crash because you believed the 'boom would get boomier'.

Fine Gael are keeping the broken one sided system afloat rather than trying to change things as promised. That's what I call bolstering the system to the detriment of the average low income/working poor Irish citizen. The system failed drastically, change it? No, prop it up with ****ing water charges....joke.

RecordStraight

For Reals wrote: »

Imagine you work minimum wage. The Celtic tiger boom comes, you're not buying holiday homes abroad but maybe you bought a fancy car because credit was falling from the skies, but apart from that you never added a wing to your house, if you had one. Then roll in Fine Gael to ensure we bail out private bond holders and pay the piper for voting Fianna Fail.

Just as a point of information, the government paid back most of the bonds because they figured it would be cheaper in the long run than defaulting. I know the long run doesn't really feature in most voters' minds, but there you go.

Fine Gael are keeping the broken one sided system afloat rather than trying to change things as promised. That's what I call bolstering the system to the detriment of the average low income/working poor Irish citizen. The system failed drastically, change it? No, prop it up with ****ing water charges....joke.

I missed the bit where Inda promised a communist revolution.

BoJack Horseman

For Reals wrote: »

that was my point. Feel free to jump in there when the generalising resumes against De left.

When was I generalising?

For Reals

RecordStraight wrote: »

Just as a point of information, the government paid back most of the bonds because they figured it would be cheaper in the long run than defaulting. I know the long run doesn't really feature in most voters' minds, but there you go.


I missed the bit where Inda promised a communist revolution.

God forbid we default on private gamblers losses.
Enda promised to change the system, not shore up a broken travesty.

"New figures show that 468 families became homeless in Dublin last year, including 1,000 children." But as long as Europe is happy and they continue to supply jobs for the likes of that chancer Hogan.

The long run means **** all to be honest because in the long run the lot of the average Irish person won't be any different some people never see that or beyond the fiscal reportage, but there you go.

RecordStraight

For Reals wrote: »

God forbid we default on private gamblers losses.
Enda promised to change the system, not shore up a broken travesty.

"New figures show that 468 families became homeless in Dublin last year, including 1,000 children." But as long as Europe is happy and they continue to supply jobs for the likes of that chancer Hogan.

Would you rather that we defaulted and ended up poorer? I'm not saying that would be wrong - I admire people with principles - but I'm not sure how Joe Public would feel.

I agree re. lack of reform, but the one bit of reform they tried, the public shot down in a referendum based on vague promises from other politicians of some unspecified future reforms that they haven't acted upon.

For Reals

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

When was I generalising?

feel free to point out when other posters generalise about de left.

For Reals

RecordStraight wrote: »

Would you rather that we defaulted and ended up poorer? I'm not saying that would be wrong - I admire people with principles - but I'm not sure how Joe Public would feel.

I agree re. lack of reform, but the one bit of reform they tried, the public shot down in a referendum based on vague promises from other politicians of some unspecified future reforms that they haven't acted upon.

If you want to run an economy based on market value, worth, general capitalism, fine. But don't go all communist when the arse falls out of private business and burden the public.
And I would not have bailed out anybody. You gamble, you lose, tough ****. Just because the money lenders don't like the idea doesn't mean we suddenly play by different rules.

Enda was the reason the abolishing of the Seanad failed as will marriage equality if he becomes the poster boy. He's a smarmy dickhead and folks don't cotton to that.

RecordStraight

For Reals wrote: »

If you want to run an economy based on market value, worth, general capitalism, fine. But don't go all communist when the arse falls out of private business and burden the public.
And I would not have bailed out anybody. You gamble, you lose, tough ****. Just because the money lenders don't like the idea doesn't mean we suddenly play by different rules.

But you understand that not honouring the bonds we had guaranteed could have cost us more, and led to deeper cuts in spending etc.?

Saipanne

stuar wrote: »

Now that Greece has the EU quaking in their boots, whether they default or not, I think in the next election Ireland will follow suit, except we have a little more to offer ourselves.

For starters tell the IMF, ECB and the bond holders/gamblers should be told to feck off.

Get out of the EU, get rid of the euro and back to the punt, become sovereign again.

Export as much as we wish, to who we wish, do away with farmers subsidies to not grow good crops on good fertile land, most our land is wasted on doing nothing.



Do away with livestock export quotas, this quota, that quota, this cap, that cap, just basically produce and sell, sell, sell.


Let fishermen fish in our territorial waters, and bring in the haul they catch, instead of worrying about EU fines and dumping thousands of tons of edible dead fish overboard each year.


Tell Royal Dutch Shell we've changed our minds on the corrib gas field and we'll pay them back their investment so far, in time, and let our gas be our gas. We just have to hire experts, let them do their work and then pay them and say bye, bye, then some of the Irish expats that emigrated and worked in the industry may return home.

Do likewise with the potential 1.7 billion barrels of oil off the west Cork coast, create our own nationalised energy company, we have the energy, who want's to buy some,crude prices may have fallen temporary but they'll soon rise again when the US/Russia/Saudi Arabia crap is over.



Just an idea......

Wow. Never has one post contained so much garbage. I'm actually impressed.