Leo Again

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

Gay men? Or MSM?

Apologies I cannot differenciate between the two terms. A gay man is a gay man. A Straight man is a straight man. A bisexual man is a bisexual man.

Maybe if they could be explained to me in a way I could reason with.

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Apologies I cannot differenciate between the two terms. A gay man is a gay man. A Straight man is a straight man. A bisexual man is a bisexual man.

Maybe if they could be explained to me in a way I could reason with.

some gay men don't have sex with other men, some gay men don't have anal sex with other men. Some MSM isn't about gay feelings.

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Happens the whole time... its called a government reshuffle. I am mostly political ambivalent in my views .... one government is a bad/corrupt/incompetent as another, change them and the other crowd could be twice as bad.

Usually happens midway through the life of a Government. Dr. Reilly is only relatively new to the Dail. compared to other TD's and he is suddenly a minister in his second term as a TD, being plucked from obsecurity. The Best of TDs will tell you being in the dail and meeting groups and running clinics and being on Sub comittes takes it tole. The there is Family life to consider. Most of them end up nervous wrecks after it except the harder nosed ones. I would rather anyday of the week to have to climb the corporate ladder in these higher professions (Lawyer, medicine, accountancy, Teaching*, Publican*, Farmer*, Engineer*) than have to face the public life of a TD for 4-8 years. Some People come out of it can return to their profession John Bruton, Dick Spring, Michael Mc Dowell, Alan Shatter with no problems. Others arent so lucky eg Brian Cowen, Mary Harney, etc.

Health, Justice and Education are the hardest portfolios. Why cos you cant please everyone. Mary Harney was excellent in Industry but found health impossible.
*not strictly higher profession but members of the dail have been trained in these professions

While he was still minister he lost running of his dept.

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...our-bones.aspx
See University of Toronto ...... There are no flouride factories in Ireland. Flouride is a by product of the nitrates industry. So what nitrites industries do we have? We have no mass arments factories of those types but we do have fertlizer companies ...... Goulding? IFI? thos come to mind. Been a few years since I was on the farm spreading chemical fertilizer. Cut Sward, Pasture sward, 10-10-20.... just to name a few. Farmers dont buy bags they buy 500kg Sacks that can only be lifted with a front loader or fork lift.

I find the link to our high levels osteoporosis and osteoarthritis more credible than lack of dairy product and bacteria growing on Grass and surviving a cows digestive system and attacking the synovial fluid allowing the cartilage to degrade from friction more believeable. The Person who told me about the link to the bacteria was a Japanese Doctor who worked on Harley Street.

You love your anecdotal evidence, but its from a doctor so thats OK... The McCanns were doctors weren't they...

skooterblue2

As Did Michael Noonan, Michael Martin, Brian cowen, and heaps of others.... we cant all be minister for Defence, Tourism and Sport and Agriculture and food and Foreign Affairs...... someone has to be the bad guy. Name a competent minister of Health?

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

The McCanns were doctors weren't they...

I dont know anything about the McCanns.... so I dont comment

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

As Did Michael Noonan, Michael Martin, Brian cowen, and heaps of others.... we cant all be minister for Defence, Tourism and Sport and Agriculture and food and Foreign Affairs...... someone has to be the bad guy. Name a competent minister of Health?

they didn't, they remained in full control while they were minister.

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I dont know anything about the McCanns.... so I dont comment

kinda ironic, doncha think...

Maximus Alexander

fran17 wrote: »

Yes that's what Leo is pushing for.But how would you know if one was being honest when answering that question?

:pac:

This is just awful. Awful. The failure of rational thinking required to actually type this out as an argument boggles the mind.

How do you know, with the rules as they stand, if one is being honest when answering that question? Or any of the questions for that matter?

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

they didn't, they remained in full control while they were minister.

Michael Noonan .... left Bridget Mc Cole go to her death while withholding compensation,
Michael Martin wasnt able to deal with the Unions and was happy to go to industry and emplyment
Mary Harney saw the biggest investment in the health system with no productivity or metric gain. Also problems with contulatants union

Our Nurses are the most highly paid in Europe. The Pharmacists are over paid by 1/3 to their nearest European counterparts. Patient on the private prescriptions pay more than patients on public systems. Junior Doctors are over worked causing problems. Doctors have to do compulsory psychatric stint which they have no experience or interest in. Lets not get started on cross contamination or superbugs and the increased resistance to anti biotics. I am not defending James Reillly at all.
I am saying it is a tough department and I would not like to be managing all of those problems and more.

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

kinda ironic, doncha think...

That I wasnt following the story? Firstly it is a justice story not a medical one. It happened while I was in College and had more then enough on my plate at the time (even though the story is ongoing). Its not that I dont care..... its just not my thing, its not medical and never was. EL

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Michael Noonan .... left Bridget Mc Cole go to her death while withholding compensation,
Michael Martin wasnt able to deal with the Unions and was happy to go to industry and emplyment
Mary Harney saw the biggest investment in the health system with no productivity or metric gain. Also problems with contulatants union

Our Nurses are the most highly paid in Europe. The Pharmacists are over paid by 1/3 to their nearest European counterparts. Patient on the private prescriptions pay more than patients on public systems. Junior Doctors are over worked causing problems. Doctors have to do compulsory psychatric stint which they have no experience or interest in. Lets not get started on cross contamination or superbugs and the increased resistance to anti biotics. I am not defending James Reillly at all.
I am saying it is a tough department and I would not like to be managing all of those problems and more.

That's nothing to do with my point, deflect much? How well do our consultants do btw?

skooterblue2

Consultant get paid much higher than their British counterparts. Then there is the contraversy about dual prupose hospitals (public/private) and the consultants would be doing their private rounds on public time. All stuff well above my pay grade, I am happy to say.

efb

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Consultant get paid much higher than their British counterparts. Then there is the contraversy about dual prupose hospitals (public/private) and the consultants would be doing their private rounds on public time. All stuff well above my pay grade, I am happy to say.

One day grasshopper

skooterblue2

efb wrote: »

One day grasshopper

Nahhhh I dont do management. I am more technican/Engineer role. Money wouldnt compensate you for the crap they deal with. Prefer the 9 to 5 (or equivalent).

B_Wayne

efb wrote: »

You love your anecdotal evidence, but its from a doctor so thats OK... The McCanns were doctors weren't they...

I know dentists that praise fluoridation but naturally I don't trust simply their word. Skooter is surprisingly unscientific in his assessments for such a scientific individual. Next up the agenda 21 linkage!

Annasopra

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Apologies I cannot differenciate between the two terms.

Well then why are you you discussing anything in this thread when you havent a clue what you are talking about?

Annasopra

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I dont know anything about the McCanns.... so I dont comment

Hmmmm... yet you comment on the blood ban even though you don't actually understand the difference between MSM and gay men.

RDM_83 again

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Well then why are you you discussing anything in this thread when you havent a clue what you are talking about?

To be fair if somebody stated that heterosexuals have X rate of transmission it would include everybody from street prostitutes to celibate widowers and people wouldn't quible over the terminology.

Also I always found the defence over the Men who have Sex with Men term by people that identify as gay as a bit weird, like for many isn't the term used because they are in denial or ashamed of part of their sexual desire/behaviour, thats hardly a very progressive thing

Annasopra

RDM_83 again wrote: »

To be fair if somebody stated that heterosexuals have X rate of transmission it would include everybody from street prostitutes to celibate widowers and people wouldn't quible over the terminology.

Also I always found the defence over the Men who have Sex with Men term by people that identify as gay as a bit weird, like for many isn't the term used because they are in denial or ashamed of part of their sexual desire/behaviour, thats hardly a very progressive thing

defence of the term? I havent seen anyone specifically defend the term - only pointing out the correct medical and scientific terminology

Nodin

B_Wayne wrote: »

I know dentists that praise fluoridation but naturally I don't trust simply their word. Skooter is surprisingly unscientific in his assessments for such a scientific individual. Next up the agenda 21 linkage!

I was expecting "agenda 21" to be a gay conspiracy theory, for some reason. Mind you, Utopia (CH4) was a good series and should have got a third series to wrap up.

RDM_83 again

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

defence of the term? I havent seen anyone specifically defend the term - only pointing out the correct medical and scientific terminology

See my point about how this differentiation is not made in studies about heterosexual issues like if its for scientific reasons we should be using terminology like men who exclusively have sex with women or vice versa these aren't used though, its used for social reasons because some people won't tick the box saying gay/bisexual for various reasons.

efb wrote: »

Gay men? Or MSM?

Am I who only practices safe sex 25 times more likely to contract HIV by having safe sex with my partner and we are both HIV neg???

Is a meaningless statement because we are talking about large scale epidemiology.

B_Wayne

Nodin wrote: »

I was expecting "agenda 21" to be a gay conspiracy theory, for some reason. Mind you, Utopia (CH4) was a good series and should have got a third series to wrap up.

Now I'm exceedingly disappointed,they're not making a season 3. :O Outlandish claims in this thread, I'm shocked so I am...

fran17

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Well then why are you you discussing anything in this thread when you havent a clue what you are talking about?

I believe it goes back to the point I was making Joey,the one you ignored.The ESRI concluded that 2.7% of males in Ireland may be gay.You have raised the point that a substantial proportion of that 2.7% do not engage in anal sex,msm.One statistic claimed that 68% of all homosexual encounters did not involve anal sex.Therefor approximately 50% of all new HIV cases are accounted for my far less than 2.7% of the population.Now in anybody's book that is an alarming percentage and,also bearing in mind that HIV figures amoung gay men have been rising since 2004,can only be described as a national health issue.
Now do you believe that the IBTS are acting with honesty and In the best interest of the whole of society by maintaining,along with the majority of the developed world,this ban?

fran17

Nodin wrote: »

I was expecting "agenda 21" to be a gay conspiracy theory, for some reason. Mind you, Utopia (CH4) was a good series and should have got a third series to wrap up.

B_Wayne wrote: »

Now I'm exceedingly disappointed,they're not making a season 3. :O Outlandish claims in this thread, I'm shocked so I am...

Guys a bit of respect here please,for the thousands let down and sentenced to lifetime affects by past failures in blood transfusion services in Ireland.

Kurtosis

fran17 wrote: »

I believe it goes back to the point I was making Joey,the one you ignored.The ESRI concluded that 2.7% of males in Ireland may be gay.You have raised the point that a substantial proportion of that 2.7% do not engage in anal sex,msm.One statistic claimed that 68% of all homosexual encounters did not involve anal sex.Therefor approximately 50% of all new HIV cases are accounted for my far less than 2.7% of the population.Now in anybody's book that is an alarming percentage and,also bearing in mind that HIV figures amoung gay men have been rising since 2004,can only be described as a national health issue.
Now do you believe that the IBTS are acting with honesty and In the best interest of the whole of society by maintaining,along with the majority of the developed world,this ban?

You continue to ignore that this proposal is not to allow donations from MSM, it's to allow men who have not had sex with men in the last 12 months to donate - these are two distinct groups with different risk profiles.

How many HIV cases are diagnosed in men who have not had sex with men in the last 12 months?

B_Wayne

fran17 wrote: »

Guys a bit of respect here please,for the thousands let down and sentenced to lifetime affects by past failures in blood transfusion services in Ireland.

Agenda 21 conspiracies are nonsense so I shall happily treat them as such.. Fran, they'll make the decision on blood donations based on research and feedback from affected groups. Most people who are truly concerned about this for non bigoted reasons would say that is the correct manner in which to deal with this.

floggg

fran17 wrote: »

I believe it goes back to the point I was making Joey,the one you ignored.The ESRI concluded that 2.7% of males in Ireland may be gay.You have raised the point that a substantial proportion of that 2.7% do not engage in anal sex,msm.One statistic claimed that 68% of all homosexual encounters did not involve anal sex.Therefor approximately 50% of all new HIV cases are accounted for my far less than 2.7% of the population.Now in anybody's book that is an alarming percentage and,also bearing in mind that HIV figures amoung gay men have been rising since 2004,can only be described as a national health issue.
Now do you believe that the IBTS are acting with honesty and In the best interest of the whole of society by maintaining,along with the majority of the developed world,this ban?

What's the risk which would result from the proposed change?

How does that compare to other groups who are permitted to donate?

Annasopra

fran17 wrote: »

I believe it goes back to the point I was making Joey,the one you ignored.The ESRI concluded that 2.7% of males in Ireland may be gay.You have raised the point that a substantial proportion of that 2.7% do not engage in anal sex,msm.One statistic claimed that 68% of all homosexual encounters did not involve anal sex.Therefor approximately 50% of all new HIV cases are accounted for my far less than 2.7% of the population.Now in anybody's book that is an alarming percentage and,also bearing in mind that HIV figures amoung gay men have been rising since 2004,can only be described as a national health issue.
Now do you believe that the IBTS are acting with honesty and In the best interest of the whole of society by maintaining,along with the majority of the developed world,this ban?

You seem to be ignorant of what MSM actually means.

2.7% of men identified as gay or bisexual
7.1% of men reported a homosexual experience sometime in their lifetime

MSM - would be higher then 2.7% because it includes people who dont identify as gay or bisexual.

fran17

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You seem to be ignorant of what MSM actually means.

2.7% of men identified as gay or bisexual
7.1% of men reported a homosexual experience sometime in their lifetime

MSM - would be higher then 2.7% because it includes people who dont identify as gay or bisexual.

"ignorant of what msm means",I know there's irony there somewhere...
So maybe its just my ignorance Joey,but if a man has sex with another man,thus excluding him from being straight,and he does not identify himself as either gay or bisexual also.What pray tell does that make him?
Please answer this question after the previous question you now ignored twice.