Off Topic Thread too point uh

Neil3030

daveup wrote: »

what you say may not be as bizarre as you think. The four provinces came into existence because of inability to compete. If we add gerogia, russia, holland, germany, italy to the fold, is it such a bad idea? To have a singular italy team in the pro12 only adds competition and also improves italy''s international potential. so you may not be as far off as you think

I was presenting a serious suggestion in a jokey way, and I like your idea to add a few more countries.

We sorely need to cash in on Georgia though, first and foremost, they are definitely the next significant player in rugby.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The likelyhood is that any controls they seek to put on immigration will be rejected by the EU should the UK wish to trade with them (similar to Norway).

It's a huge part of the leave vote but one that they now most likely will have less control of if they want to trade with Ireland and the EU.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic, dangerous and needless.

I don't think that's a likelihood at all actually. The EU are perfectly willing to cede ground all over the place in their quest for free trade, as we see with TTIP.

And their response to the Swiss immigration referendum was particularly toothless. I think the UK will get their immigration controls and their free trade when all is said and done, but it will take a long time and who knows what the EU will look like by then.

Synode

Don't think it will be as easy as that at all irishbucsfan. A lot of angry EU politicians will want to make an example of the UK to ensure other countries don't do the same thing. Switzerland and the UK are two completely different fishes

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Have you sensed an anti-immigrant sentiment amongst the people you've met/dealt with in the UK?

I don't think anything close to a majority of British people are anti-immigrant. Wanting controls on immigration and being anti-immigrant aren't really the same thing.

They have controls on Non-Europe immigration. There remains a massive influx of immigration for a reason. I can't believe a bigger deal wasn't made of that.

swiwi_

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Well, it's just as well I don't care what you think with your anti Eu cliché either now isn't it
I'm so happy you have a great life in Switzerland, happy days lad. But, it's not the same in the UK and we in Ireland are inextricably linked to the UK and it will have a disproportionate negative affect on us too compared to any other country in the EU

We agree on that, it's bad news for Ireland.

The EU needs to take stock, though. It was originally designed along the lines of a Franco-German pact to prevent further war etc.

It would have worked fine if the EU money zone had been restricted to the western continental bloc: France, Germany, Benelux etc. Instead the EU broke its own rules to allow in the likes of Greece, along with other work-averse countries like Spain.

I have no doubt Britain will survive just fine. But Ireland would definitely prefer to have Britain in the EU, no question.

I see it took all of about 5 seconds before Sinn Fein raised the one island issue again.

My relatives, of which I have a multitude in Britain, seem mostly to have voted to remain, and like yourself Felix are a bit in shock.

CatFromHue

everyone's in shock, even those who voted to leave!

Neil3030

There is definitely anti Irish sentiment in the UK. Not to the same overt extent that there is anti other-less-white-immigrants sentiment; it takes on a more subtle flavour of condescention and supeiority.

Just last week I was on a ferry from Holyhead and as the shuttle bus reversed off at Dublin port a woman from an otherwise respectable group of middle-aged couples loudly announced "Oh, the bus is going backwards, we must be in Ireland"

Also, how often do you hear jokes made about potatoes? This is a particular bugbear of mine; seeing as the British eat more potatoes per capita than we do, there is no way this doesn't refer to the famine.

irishbucsfan

Synode wrote: »

Don't think it will be as easy as that at all irishbucsfan. A lot of angry EU politicians will want to make an example of the UK to ensure other countries don't do the same thing. Switzerland and the UK are two completely different fishes

I can't see any chance of Britain being made an example of if involves Euroean politicians having to explain to their increasingly eurosceptic electorate that they're paying tariffs so that they can punish another nation for resorting to democracy.

awec

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I can't see any chance of Britain being made an example of if involves Euroean politicians having to explain to their increasingly eurosceptic electorate that they're paying tariffs so that they can punish another nation for resorting to democracy.

Er, they'd be paying tariffs because there has to be some advantage to being within the EU.

The EU is not going to let the UK saunter off and then take advantage of the market.

And this "resorting to democracy" stuff is so inane. Britain was as much of a democracy yesterday as it is today and will be whenever it actually leaves.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

They have controls on Non-Europe immigration. There remains a massive influx of immigration for a reason. I can't believe a bigger deal wasn't made of that.

I think in reality the concerns are about a very specific type of immigrant and certain voters feel like they will now be able to stop that. I think they'll ultimately be very disappointed on that score, I can't see them meeting the target they quoted on immigration figures.

Bazzo

Have to say though, got a laugh out of Farage and the 350 million for the NHS antics today.

https://twitter.com/keaneshaw/status/746230773770969088

irishbucsfan

Bazzo wrote: »

Have to say though, got a laugh out of Farage and the 350 million...

There were two leave campaigns, people struggle to understand that. Vote Leave and Leave.uk (and I think they were as bad as each other).

I very much dislike the man but people need to focus on criticising the things he actually is responsible for.

errlloyd

Yeah, and we're lucky. Because Farage never promised 350mn for the NHS, but even if he did he wouldn't be able to deliver it.

Boris on the other hand, Boris very much promised 350mn for the NHS, and the chances are he'll be prime minister in a couple of months. So the people of Britain can hold him to the white words on the side of his bus.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

There were two leave campaigns, people struggle to understand that. Vote Leave and Leave.uk (and I think they were as bad as each other).

I very much dislike the man but people need to focus on criticising the things he actually is responsible for.

Yeah. Gove and Johnson are the despicable folks responsible for that. Farage just hates brown people.

b.gud

b.gud wrote: »

Was planning on selling my car send buying a newer one. On the way to test drive so car today a little old lady ran into me on the round about.
She is adamant that she wasn't at fault, I know for sure fact she is so now I'll probably have to deal with the hassle of insurance companies for a couple of weeks

Are you f***ing s***ing me, on the way home from work this evening sitting traffic and someone runs into the back of me

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Yeah. Gove and Johnson are the despicable folks responsible for that. Farage just hates brown people.

And the breaking point posters were far far worse than the 350m claim. They were blatantly xenophobic and manipulative and actually likely had far more of an effect.

Felix Jones is God

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Will noone spare a thought for poor gibraltar?

I've been dealing with that issue since 6am :mad:

BBDBB

Gibraltar to join the Pro 12

bilston

There is some real division on this today in the UK. I've witnessed people having arguments on Facebook and people under 40, who mainly voted remain, are wondering why people over 60, mainly voted leave, are getting to dictate the future of the country that will affect the young a lot more than the old!

matthew8

bilston wrote: »

There is some real division on this today in the UK. I've witnessed people having arguments on Facebook and people under 40, who mainly voted remain, are wondering why people over 60, mainly voted leave, are getting to dictate the future of the country that will affect the young a lot more than the old!

The whinging is unreal from the remain side. I wanted them to stay in but all this stuff about leave being racist/stupid/uneducated/old is just pathetic.

errlloyd

matthew8 wrote: »

The whinging is unreal from the remain side. I wanted them to stay in but all this stuff about leave being racist/stupid/uneducated/old is just pathetic.

The vast majority of the leave campaign (95% plus) fit neatly into one of those brackets.

Neil3030

matthew8 wrote: »

The whinging is unreal from the remain side. I wanted them to stay in but all this stuff about leave being racist/stupid/uneducated/old is just pathetic.

Pathetic indeed. Oh, if pathetic now means 'empirically observable'

matthew8

Neil3030 wrote: »

Pathetic indeed. Oh, if pathetic now means 'empirically observable'

errlloyd wrote: »

The vast majority of the leave campaign (95% plus) fit neatly into one of those brackets.

I'm not disputing that the old and uneducated voted for brexit, what's pathetic is whinging about it, as if these people don't count.

Neil3030

matthew8 wrote: »

I'm not disputing that the old and uneducated voted for brexit, what's pathetic is whinging about it, as if these people don't count.

Of course they count. The problem is that they are more easily manipulated by devious propaganda. The Leave side won this campaign by uncorking a bunch of compelling but specious nonsense on pissed-off people least equipped to see through their lies. Plenty worth whinging about if you ask me, not least the terrible counter-campaign orchestrated by the by the Remain side.

CatFromHue

irishbucsfan wrote: »

And the breaking point posters were far far worse than the 350m claim. They were blatantly xenophobic and manipulative and actually likely had far more of an effect.

I think the TV footage of the migrant crisis last year was far more influential than the posters. The idea of possible problems down the line started forming then, the poster just re iterated peoples worries that they already had.

I think the treatment of people who worried about mass migration from countries with very different cultures was handled badly by the internet users (I didn't see any of the TV debates). Calling them names like racist or xenophobic just solidified their opinion. Granted some of them are racist and/or xenophobic but I'd say a lot were genuinely worried about the societal problems that come with taking in huge amounts of people with different cultural values.

Also the New Years sexual assaults would have been in people's minds. There seemed to be relatively little to do about this as the victims were white, like the Rotherham child sexual abuse victims.

bilston

matthew8 wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

There is some real division on this today in the UK. I've witnessed people having arguments on Facebook and people under 40, who mainly voted remain, are wondering why people over 60, mainly voted leave, are getting to dictate the future of the country that will affect the young a lot more than the old!

The whinging is unreal from the remain side. I wanted them to stay in but all this stuff about leave being racist/stupid/uneducated/old is just pathetic.

matthew8 wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

There is some real division on this today in the UK. I've witnessed people having arguments on Facebook and people under 40, who mainly voted remain, are wondering why people over 60, mainly voted leave, are getting to dictate the future of the country that will affect the young a lot more than the old!

The whinging is unreal from the remain side. I wanted them to stay in but all this stuff about leave being racist/stupid/uneducated/old is just pathetic.

Well I don't know about racist, I don't think you can call someone racist for having concerns about immigration. I have concerns about immigration (still voted remain) but I'd like to think I don't have a racist bone in my body. There are lots of stupid people on both sides of the argument. However I think most polls suggest that people over 55 with lower levels of education were far more likely to vote leave. However their vote is as valid as anyone's.

I'm just p****d off that Farage has got away with some absolute bulls**t during the campaign and people have fallen for it. He has already backtracked on the 350m a week for the NHS pledge, although it isn't something h can deliver anyway as he isn't in government. I heard a guy from Wales on the radio earlier say he voted leave because he was told that Turkey was going to join the EU and that 12 million Turks were going to come and live in the UK. I mean WTF? How were the Leave campaign allowed to get away with that rubbish by the Remain camp?

I've never been this annoyed with an election result in my life and I know I'm not alone. That's why I think the UK is very badly divided right now. You have to respect democracy, of course you do, but 48% of people didn't want to leave the EU, that's 16 million people. Their views don't matter now. And I just can't help but feel that quite a few who voted Leave just weren't as informed of the consequences as they should have been.

CatFromHue

There could also be a disconect between the govts who managed the fall out of the global financial collapse.

We voted in a pile of independents and some headers in place of the main political parties. The Donald looks to be in a strong position and all he's doing is slagging off the previous govt, and everyone else too.

I think people are forgetting just how bad things were in 09/10.

Synode

I think in the future (whether it be 1, 2, 5 years down the line), a lot of people who voted leave will regret their decision. I doubt there's many who wanted the UK to fall apart but that's a serious possibility now

matthew8

matthew8 wrote: »

The whinging is unreal from the remain side. I wanted them to stay in but all this stuff about leave being racist/stupid/uneducated/old is just pathetic.

Honestly if this happened under similar circumstances in Ireland I would be apoplectic. Huge freedoms, chances for broader education and a commitment to improve goods and services for citizens of the UK has been robbed from them by the old, the racist, the stupid. I would find it very difficult not to ostracize those who chose to leave.

I'm vicariously very angry on behalf of those who wished to stay and I'm angry in general because our economy is going to stall until this gets somewhat sorted and that impacts my own bottom line.

Mostly I'm just amazed how so many people have made such a foolish choice and I hate the way political opportunism is driving hate, negativity and fear to achieve power for those willing to burn the house down.

swiwi_

Deleted User wrote: »

Honestly if this happened under similar circumstances in Ireland I would be apoplectic. Huge freedoms, chances for broader education and a commitment to improve goods and services for citizens of the UK has been robbed from them by the old, the racist, the stupid. I would find it very difficult not to ostracize those who chose to leave.

I'm vicariously very angry on behalf of those who wished to stay and I'm angry in general because our economy is going to stall until this gets somewhat sorted and that impacts my own bottom line.

Mostly I'm just amazed how so many people have made such a foolish choice and I hate the way political opportunism is driving hate, negativity and fear to achieve power for those willing to burn the house down.

How does being part of the EU or not affect this?

I probably should have paid more attention (just don't care enough I suppose), but I'd be interested to know compelling reasons why Britain should definitely have remained in the EU.