Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

While nobody thinks Honda are having a good season, most people have avoided decending into histrionics.

Histrionics? Heh. Alonso's in a better position than most to give a view.

It's their first season and they can't fix the problems they have due to development restrictions. There's no point humouring your makey-upy insights into the Honda team's internal workings.

Development restrictions means they can't fix the problems.

If you had understood my last postyou would know that I think the development restrictions mean we have no idea whether they can overcome their difficulties or not.

Oh wait, maybe not. Can you keep it straight for 2 paragraphs maybe?

They're so far behind it's not even funny. I saw a couple of laps of the last race and it was enough to see one of the McLarens get done on the straight by a Red Bull with no DRS.
The development restrictions are apparently so severe that any update causes a catastrophic failure. Is there a big change to the restrictions coming that'll allow them to fix both the massive power deficit along with the massive reliability issues? Is there any world in which you can imagine them gaining the 2 seconds a lap of power they'll need to match Ferrari next year?

Myrddin wrote: »

I've totally changed my opinion on Crofty, I used to really like him when he was with 5Live. He's borderline obnoxious now at times...

Borderline?? :P He's clueless these days, it's as if he watches timing and twitter and glances at the screen sometimes. The lad on the track in Singapore was classic.

_davidsmith_

OSI wrote: »

Personally I think a grandstand ticket is a waste. We had general admission tickets for Spa this year and really enjoyed moving around the track over the course of the weekend. With a grandstand ticket you're kind of committing yourself to the one spot, or you're wasting the money.

I think theres more of a buzz with GA and freedom of movement and of course more beer money left over

But id be going with the misses and my folks and the folks arnt as limber as they used to be so having the seats we can be guarenteed in is a plus.

General admission and camping is the only way to go if you're fit for it.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote:

Histrionics? Heh. Alonso's in a better position than most to give a view.

Nobody is saying this season has been a success.

Deleted User wrote:

Development restrictions means they can't fix the problems.

Yes, this year. This is their first year in this formula. Keeping the histrionics to a minimum is advisable.

Deleted User wrote:

Oh wait, maybe not. Can you keep it straight for 2 paragraphs maybe?

Only your level of understanding has varied.

Deleted User wrote:

They're so far behind it's not even funny. I saw a couple of laps of the last race and it was enough to see one of the McLarens get done on the straight by a Red Bull with no DRS. The development restrictions are apparently so severe that any update causes a catastrophic failure. Is there a big change to the restrictions coming that'll allow them to fix both the massive power deficit along with the massive reliability issues? Is there any world in which you can imagine them gaining the 2 seconds a lap of power they'll need to match Ferrari next year?

The restrictions have limited their ability to implement solutions during the season.

Nobody expects them to catch ferrari next year. No point setting that as a benchmark for success. Significantly closing the gap would be success. You seem to be armed with a small bit of knowledge which seems to make you more certain than most of the people here.

The facts:
Honda arrived late;
engine is neither fast nor reliable;
if they have solved problems they can't implement them during the season so we don't know whether they have or not;
Honda have invested heavily;
honda generally perform reasonably well in motor sport;

Your pronouncements are fairly baseless but made laughable by the degree of certainty with which you make them.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Nobody is saying this season has been a success.

What did I say that count as "histrionics"?

Yes, this year. This is their first year in this formula. Keeping the histrionics to a minimum is advisable.

Really poor posting. If a woman disagrees with you is your first response to tell them they're being hysterical?

Only your level of understanding has varied.

You stated something as a fact, the next thing you said stated that you didn't know if that previous stated fact was accurate or not.

The restrictions have limited their ability to implement solutions during the season.

As with everyone.

Nobody expects them to catch ferrari next year. No point setting that as a benchmark for success. Significantly closing the gap would be success. You seem to be armed with a small bit of knowledge which seems to make you more certain than most of the people here.

Give a number. Quantify it. They're probably 2 seconds a lap down on power to the Ferrari, do you expect after a season of no improvement that they'll get that to under a second next season without an overhaul of the engine which can't be done under the regs?

The facts:
Honda arrived late;

Yes. And despite what was in the public domain about the other manufacturer's engines went completely wrong.

engine is neither fast nor reliable;

Yes.

if they have solved problems they can't implement them during the season so we don't know whether they have or not;

But wait, how do you know what's going on in the inner workings of Honda??????????????????? etc. etc.

Honda have invested heavily;

Yes. Why you are so certain (ooh, you're making a pronouncement!!!!) they'll continue to do so I'm not sure. Everything they've tried has failed, why not cut their losses for the next 2 seasons since it's like work on the new engines will start after next season anyway?

honda generally perform reasonably well in motor sport;

Relevance?

Your pronouncements are fairly baseless but made laughable by the degree of certainty with which you make them.

Pick out the pronouncements I've made which are laughable and explain why. Go on, please, this is fun.

ScumLord

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Your pronouncements are fairly baseless but made laughable by the degree of certainty with which you make them.

This is the point. Maybe, mystically you're right Button, but we can't really know. Maybe inside the McLaren factory people are running around like headless chickens with no clue what to do next. I doubt it, I'm sure they've collected a lot of useful data and are working on implementing it for next year.

The bottom line is we won't know the truth, probably until someone makes a revealing documentary/biography years after the fact. I also don't think this year is any real indication of how they'll do next year.

Charlie-Bravo

At some point during this year, McLaren would have said, let's concentrate on the power unit for next year, while doing minimal development on this year's power unit, even though there'll be tokens available to them. Yes, there were upgrades for Belgium and Russia IIRC.

I would reckon that at some point during the European races, well before the Japan GP, they've steered their attention to next year's power unit.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

This is the point. Maybe, mystically you're right Button, but we can't really know. Maybe inside the McLaren factory people are running around like headless chickens with no clue what to do next. I doubt it, I'm sure they've collected a lot of useful data and are working on implementing it for next year.

I think there are fewer headless chickens at McLaren than Honda.

The bottom line is we won't know the truth, probably until someone makes a revealing documentary/biography years after the fact. I also don't think this year is any real indication of how they'll do next year.

We know that they started off worse than any other engine manufacturer and have made little to no headway in terms of power and if anything gone backwards in terms of reliability.
I'll ask again, what would you see as acceptable performance/improvement next season? Something quantifiable.

astrofluff

astrofluff wrote: »

At some point during this year, McLaren would have said, let's concentrate on the power unit for next year, while doing minimal development on this year's power unit, even though there'll be tokens available to them. Yes, there were upgrades for Belgium and Russia IIRC.

I would reckon that at some point during the European races, well before the Japan GP, they've steered their attention to next year's power unit.

Mercedes made upgrades for "next year's" engine already. Next year's engine is this year's one with the same basic constraints as at the start of the year.

ScumLord

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll ask again, what would you see as acceptable performance/improvement next season? Something quantifiable.

The question doesn't really make any sense. At least, asking me doesn't make any sense. I'd just be plucking a number out of thin air. I hope they find all the time they need to compete at the front, but I have no idea of what's possible, or whats expected for next year.

El_Duderino 09

ScumLord wrote:

The question doesn't really make any sense. At least, asking me doesn't make any sense. I'd just be plucking a number out of thin air. I hope they find all the time they need to compete at the front, but I have no idea of what's possible, or whats expected for next year.

They have been fighting with Sauber in the last few races which is really good considering the engine deficit.

A good result would be to overtake Sauber and start fighting with force India and maybe lotus and toro Rosso in the constructors. It's impossible to tell how much those other teams will improve next year though.

FI made a big improvement with the 2015 chassis when they finally introduced it during this season. There's no telling if a 1.5 second improvement would move McLaren much further up the grid than they are this year when you consider the improvement the other teams are likely to make.

It's all conjecture, just some of us know we're conjecturing.

AMKC

Mike Litoris wrote: »

If the BBC go and Sky is the only option that'll be it for me watching F1 too. The whole team annoy the shíte out of me even Brundle who I used to think was god and carried the ITV team. Unprofessional, patronising and they portray the worst kind of British bias.


If it does happen I wonder who'll supply the world feed commentary and will Setanta still pick it up.

Me too. If it goes from the Beeb that will be the end of me watching F1. I would not watch it on sky its just so dry their commentary. Maybe some good will come from it I might get out and start having a life:)

IrishBlaine

I enjoy the Sky coverage but its just me judging from people here

Stoolbend

I don't mind the sky coverage either. Can't stand Simon Lazenby, Natalie Pinkham or Damon Hill though.

Tried watching BBC and just can't listen to Suzy Perry.

mickdw

Stoolbend wrote: »

I don't mind the sky coverage either. Can't stand Simon Lazenby, Natalie Pinkham or Damon Hill though.

Tried watching BBC and just can't listen to Suzy Perry.

BBC live coverage with jake humphrey, Brundle, dc and ej was fantastic.
This half live coverage was only going one way for BBC.
I find sky good though. I like Brundle, Hill and Herbert and Ted at times.

Charlie-Bravo

I quite enjoy Suzy Perry presenting. She has done a fantastic job since day one. Jake started getting on my nerves with his pathetic link efforts.

i don't watch Sky much as I have Setanta, but I will say that what I have watched, Herbert is the one I enjoy watching. Brundle's grid walks are ok, I enjoy DC's better.

IrishBlaine

I love Herbert, Such a bubbly character, Like all the Sky crew actually, The bia's on Hamilton can be abit much sometimes but thats to be expected.

Ghost Train

Brundles grid walk in Brazil was pretty woeful, do like David Croft and skys coverage is pretty complete, BBC still matches it though and would be sad to see it go completely

Myrddin

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I cant stand Suzy Perry at all, I think Jake was a massive loss. You could tell he had a genuine interest in the sport and brought some real energy to the show.

I've warmed to Suzy over the years, but Jake had a unique chemistry with the others that was unmistakable. I wonder if BT Sports got into F1 if we'd see a return of Jake?

One of the most annoying thing about the Sky team is the incessant need to put abbreviated nicknames on people....K-Mag, Danny Ric, JB, and so forth. Cringe.

Myrddin

Looking at the F1 Show in Sky 1 here, they're doing a rerun of Verstappen's best moves over the season...he really does seem like something special doesn't he. Can you imagine him in a front running car

zanardi

_davidsmith_ wrote: »

I think theres more of a buzz with GA and freedom of movement and of course more beer money left over

But id be going with the misses and my folks and the folks arnt as limber as they used to be so having the seats we can be guarenteed in is a plus.

Be warned that it's a steep hike up to those seats if mobility is an issue. They are fantastic though, we caught Webber's overtake on Alonso from there in 2011. Nice to do it once, but we've gone GA since and actually prefer the freedom to move around.

If you're paying that much, it's worth paying the extra for Gold 3 rather than Gold 4 - as it's covered and Belgium can be very cold and wet.

El_Duderino 09

Ghost Train wrote:

Brundles grid walk in Brazil was pretty woeful, do like David Croft and skys coverage is pretty complete, BBC still matches it though and would be sad to see it go completely

I can't see the point of the grid walk anymore. It's just grabbing a few seconds with the drivers when they would prefer to be getting ready for the race.

Brundel 'okay Checo, do you think you can make the tyres last today? Maybe pull off a different strategy from the rest of the grid? '

Driver 'Well we'll see how the race developes and take it from there'

Brundel ' thanks Checo. Great chat'

HighLine

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I can't see the point of the grid walk anymore. It's just grabbing a few seconds with the drivers when they would prefer to be getting ready for the race.

Brundel 'okay Checo, do you think you can make the tyres last today? Maybe pull off a different strategy from the rest of the grid? '

Driver 'Well we'll see how the race developes and take it from there'

Brundel ' thanks Checo. Great chat'

Disagree. It's about soaking up the atmosphere, the buzz and trying to convey that to the fans.

Yes, Martin's gridwalk in Brazil wasn't good but more often than not they are. It's an institution.... along with grid girls of course :pac:

mickdw

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I can't see the point of the grid walk anymore. It's just grabbing a few seconds with the drivers when they would prefer to be getting ready for the race.

Brundel 'okay Checo, do you think you can make the tyres last today? Maybe pull off a different strategy from the rest of the grid? '

Driver 'Well we'll see how the race developes and take it from there'

Brundel ' thanks Checo. Great chat'

Who is this Brundel fella?
Is he the offspring of Martin Brundle and Mark Blundell?

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

The question doesn't really make any sense. At least, asking me doesn't make any sense. I'd just be plucking a number out of thin air. I hope they find all the time they need to compete at the front, but I have no idea of what's possible, or whats expected for next year.

See the next quote:

ScumLord wrote: »

All I'm saying is I'm going to wait until next year to pass judgement. No team really aced the current power unit straight off the bat, every team had reliability issues in the first year.

How will you pass judgement exactly?

El_Duderino 09

HighLine wrote:

Yes, Martin's gridwalk in Brazil wasn't good but more often than not they are. It's an institution.... along with grid girls of course

Yeah I suppose it needs a bit of tat to attract mainstream fans

Jordan 199

Myrddin wrote: »

One of the most annoying thing about the Sky team is the incessant need to put abbreviated nicknames on people....K-Mag, Danny Ric, JB, and so forth. Cringe.

That's because they are trying to be hip innit.

ScumLord

Myrddin wrote: »

Looking at the F1 Show in Sky 1 here, they're doing a rerun of Verstappen's best moves over the season...he really does seem like something special doesn't he. Can you imagine him in a front running car

I hope his just the tip of the iceberg, basically that putting a teenager in an F1 car produces results like Verstappen.

Deleted User wrote: »

How will you pass judgement exactly?

Well, I already have the judge's wig and robe from the time I passed judgement on the new smaller yorkie bars. I'll put them on so I can write my formal letter of judgement to McLaren. It will of course include recommendations for improvements, I'll probably end the judgement on a positive note, no need to be all doom and gloom.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

Well, I already have the judge's wig and robe from the time I passed judgement on the new smaller yorkie bars. I'll put them on so I can write my formal letter of judgement to McLaren. It will of course include recommendations for improvements, I'll probably end the judgement on a positive note, no need to be all doom and gloom.

So you still won't answer then. That's pretty pathetic.

Harika

http://planetf1.com/news/ilmor-aer-interested-cosworth-says-no/
Ilmor and Aer are interested in providing engines for 2017. If those go forward I cannot see the manufacturers agreeing that those engines are competitive against their hybrid engines. Nice to give a lifeline to backmarkers but RedBull fighting for the title with them no way.