IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

padd b1975

hynesie08 wrote: »

If they're working, They're not unemployed.

If they're getting paid, they're not slaves.

BoatMad

Gringo180 wrote: »

Have heard a few stories like this myself. Which begs the questions, why set up a company like Irish Water if they are going to be sub contracting some work back to the council? Would it not be best to leave this type of work to the council, it would save an awful lot of money?

Another thing how in the name of christ did they spend over 80 million on consultants alone

aha, my beef preciously

Lets look at why all this happened

(a) state is bankrupted by guaranteeing banks with money it doesn't have
(b) property bubble burst cause banks can't lend.
(c) gov looses a huge amount of tax it had foolishly some to rely on.
(d) bailout triplets arrive
(e) bailout triplets point out to Gov, you don't raise enough tax to meet your ongoing needs, never mind repaying some"new" loans, so Gov, better raise taxes

(g) Hence we get USC, LPT,and water charges ( you might notice how most of these new charges arntt easy to avoid and can't easily be avoided.)
(h) Gov gets USC and LPT away, knows water is a tricky one ( was attempted before)
(i) I order to borrow billions for water system, Gov can't borrow money directly , bailout boys rule that one out as does the EU. ( 3% deficit target and all that )

(j) So no choice but too semi-privateise like other semi-states.
(k) However Couty councils go berserk, claim they will be left with staff that have nothing to d and also they should be paid to "release the assets to IW" ( even though the public has already paid for them )

(l) in the interests of "worker harmony", ( I mean who is in coalition with FG), a deal is down with the unions, transferrs on full public service conditions and pay.

(j) including the public service bonus, ( which is why they wanted to pay them, ben before they were working , cause they were "due" them in the county councils.

(k) Now we have the mess that is IWm staff on fat public servant rates, county councils skimming fees for "managing " or releasing infrastructure

and you think IW will be efficient ????


PS : the consultants figure , was actually thing alike provision of the computer systems and the like. ( BY THE WAY Bord Gas won the contract to manage IW, precisely because they claimed there billing system had capacity and ability to handle the water meters funny, once they got the contract, they needed to spend 80 million on new IT!!!!)

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

I'd love to have a list of people they employed as consultants and would bet my bottom dollar that there'd be a few familiar names on it, and no doubt another few who turn out to be pals with people who were responsible for setting it up / deciding who to employ as consultants.

When the consultants story broke early in the year, I think there was some confidentiality sh1te spewed and the breakdown of costs has never bee revealed.

The fact that the couldn't justify the costs at the time says it all really.

ninebeanrows

moxin wrote: »

So says the guy from London. Try living here first and contribute your taxes to have a sincere view on the water protests.

ha, I am victim of the recession, I have had to emigrate recently to gain employment. It saddens me to see a small cohort of society try and damage the recovery.

And by god I disagree with a lot of the governments actions, I think it is funny that Irish Water is the final straw for some people,

It is exactly the type of charge that should have been around for decades to give a sustainable tax base...

I just think there is an extremist element fuelling this uproar as it may be the final really tangible fee to be introduced... and their last chance to vent

Gringo180

I wonder can any Pro Irish water heads explain why the consultant fees were astronomically high?

BoatMad

Originally Posted by hatrickpatrick View Post
I condemn the violence at recent protests, but I find it a bit disingenuous for you to include "all because they didn't like you" in your analogy. Burton & co are not being harassed because people don't like them, they're being harassed because they're robbing Peter to pay Paul, where Peter is an ordinary citizen and Paul is someone high up in the political hierarchy or with close links to the aforementioned hierarchy.

em, fundementally, water charge is a tax, forced on the gov by the inability of the tax system to pay for the running of the country. I don't believe " someone high up in the political hierarchy" is in line for millions resulting from the water charges.

In fact I suspect with the new charges, IW will have some spurious problems funding itself and will fail the "market test"

donvito99

Gringo180 wrote: »

I wonder can any Pro Irish water heads explain why the consultant fees were astronomically high?

Relative to what, like?

the groutch

BoatMad wrote: »

good idea jobsbridge, most interns work for nothing, at least here you gets a few quid.

most proper internships (like in America) help people towards permanent employment in their field of study.

very little to be gained by a college graduate on the dole if they are to go working as:

hotel room cleaner
laundrette worker
petrol pump attendant
car cleaner
cow milker
supermarket shelf stacker
paper bag making machine operator


(yes they are all real)

Tinkersbell

Is it legal for a government to set the charge rates of a commercial semi state company?

BTW, good day to announce it, the same day the IMF fly in to oversee what we're doing.

No wonder they waited as long as they did.........

dav3

Another backdown from the government on charges. Irish water is dead in the water, if it drags on any longer it will bring down the government.

Tail Docker

Varadker winning the "mealy mouthed git" competition on RTE right now. "I fully support the Gardai"..even when they are flinging women across the road onto a bollard...

donvito99

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Is it legal for a government to set the charge rates of a commercial semi state company?

They established it in an act of the Oireachtas. Also, the clue is in semi state.

Banjo String

the groutch wrote: »

most proper internships (like in America) help people towards permanent employment in their field of study.

very little to be gained by a college graduate on the dole if they are to go working as:

hotel room cleaner
laundrette worker
petrol pump attendant
car cleaner
cow milker
supermarket shelf stacker
paper bag making machine operator


(yes they are all real)

You forgot "sandwich artist".

(working in subway) :pac:

Augmerson

Weathercheck wrote: »

ha, I am victim of the recession, I have had to emigrate recently to gain employment. It saddens me to see a small cohort of society try and damage the recovery.

And by god I disagree with a lot of the governments actions, I think it is funny that Irish Water is the final straw for some people,

It is exactly the type of charge that should have been around for decades to give a sustainable tax base...

I just think there is an extremist element fuelling this uproar as it may be the final really tangible fee to be introduced... and their last chance to vent

If you are out of the country you may have missed this, but it's not a small cohort of society. Over 150,000 people marched a few weeks back. Thousands marched in towns and cities all over Ireland from all walks of life and all ages.

You can't really talk about finding it laughable that this is the straw that broke the camel's back. You lost your job and had to emigrate, leaving friends and family at home. That's a lot to lose and yet some would see you as lucky for being able to do so, there are many who can't leave.

I keep hearing about this recovery but outside of Dublin I don't see it at all.

BoatMad

Gringo180 wrote: »

I wonder can any Pro Irish water heads explain why the consultant fees were astronomically high?

I want IW disbanded, but I understand a large proportion of the fees actually went to the IT companies in designing and installing the new computerised billing systems.

It should be mentioned that Bord Gais, which won the contract to manage IW, did so mainly on the basis that its IT systems had the spare capacity and complexity to handle the billing systems. Funnily once they won the contract, the same said IT systems suddenly were not up to the job and millions hence was spent ( in a hurry ) ,

donvito99

Tail Docker wrote: »

Varadker winning the "mealy mouthed git" competition on RTE right now. "I fully support the Gardai"..even when they are flinging women across the road onto a bollard...

So we're supposed to not support the state's police force after an isolated example of - to some - heavy handed policing?

BoatMad

I keep hearing about this recovery but outside of Dublin I don't see it at all.

it will be coming to a city near you soon enough , already in Cork and Galway

donvito99

Augmerson wrote: »

I keep hearing about this recovery but outside of Dublin I don't see it at all.

Don't worry, cause Dublin's gonna pay for the recovery.

Tinkersbell

donvito99 wrote: »

They established it in an act of the Oireachtas. Also, the clue is in semi state.

The government of the day has no legal right to interfere with the commercial operations of a semi state company.

BoatMad

donvito99 wrote: »

Don't worry, cause Dublin's gonna pay for the recovery.

Yes it will, as it essentially pays for the whole country. That big rural house you live in , is in essence subsidised by all those ordinary people shoved into cramped housing estates.

Augmerson

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes it will, as it essentially pays for the whole country. That big rural house you live in , is in essence subsidised by all those ordinary people shoved into cramped housing estates.

Thank god for 20 Brazilians to a room and the landlords who let it happen eh?

My name is URL

BoatMad wrote: »

I want IW disbanded, but I understand a large proportion of the fees actually went to the IT companies in designing and installing the new computerised billing systems.

I don't buy that. It's just more of the same. No IT or computerised billing systems involved in the consultancy stages for the Poolbeg incinerator project, and it still cost close to €100,000,000.

I'm sure it did make up a large part of consultancy fees for IW, but it most certainly does not justify the insane cost overall.

Red Pepper

BoatMad wrote: »

I want IW disbanded, but I understand a large proportion of the fees actually went to the IT companies in designing and installing the new computerised billing systems.

It should be mentioned that Bord Gais, which won the contract to manage IW, did so mainly on the basis that its IT systems had the spare capacity and complexity to handle the billing systems. Funnily once they won the contract, the same said IT systems suddenly were not up to the job and millions hence was spent ( in a hurry ) ,

Billing and Asset Management systems are not rocket science and should be absolutely scalable. There are utility companies (including water) up and down the UK that managed it seamlessly after deregulation.

Tinkersbell

BoatMad wrote: »

Yes it will, as it essentially pays for the whole country. That big rural house you live in , is in essence subsidised by all those ordinary people shoved into cramped housing estates.

Ah thanks.
Mine's rural, but still in Co. Dublin.....

Tail Docker

donvito99 wrote: »

So we're supposed to not support the state's police force after an isolated example of - to some - heavy handed policing?

Isolated me hole. They are battoning their way into the hearts of the Irish People, day after day.

michael999999

Tail Docker wrote: »

Varadker winning the "mealy mouthed git" competition on RTE right now. "I fully support the Gardai"..even when they are flinging women across the road onto a bollard...

Will he be asking he's boss why he sacked there commissioner so?

MouseTail

hju6 wrote: »

My mates on forced jobscam for the council, 10 lads fighting for a go of shovel

Good idea for reducing the live register, one of Maggies ploys in the eighties

your mate is not on jobbridge, sounds like he is on Gateway, a part time scheme for the long term unemployed. I don't know how long your mate is unemployed, but many participants on this scheme would have been unemployed for 5+ years.

michael999999

Red Pepper wrote: »

Billing and Asset Management systems are not rocket science and should be absolutely scalable. There are utility companies (including water) up and down the UK that managed it seamlessly after deregulation.

Ya but they don't have the same company's winning these contracts every gov job that comes up!

Same old golden circle!

take everything

Leo under pressure.

Streetwalker

Varadkar going down in flames on primetime.