IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

listermint

Phoebas wrote: »

He didn't say that at all. Not remotely.


As long as you're happy....

Your opinion on this matter disgusts me.

My sister in law is a youth worker she sees this everyday.

And the thanks seekers opinion disgusts me too.


Just pure dark dark space it occupies.

yipeeeee

My name is URL wrote: »

Those aren't indicators of poverty and Barnardos doesn't use them as such.

You're either just mistaken or deliberately trying to mislead others.



http://www.barnardos.ie/media-centre/news/latest-news/irelands-measures-of-poverty-do-not-reflect-childrens-experience-of-poverty-and-deprivation-barnardos-and-the-society-of-st-vincent-de-paul.html

You're right here is the true meaning.

poverty is measured by the percentage of persons with an equivalised disposable income of less than 60% of the national median income and deprived of at least two or more of the following indicators.

Without heating at some stage in the last year
Unable to afford a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight
Unable to afford two pairs of strong shoes
Unable to afford a roast once a week
Unable to afford a meal with meat, chicken or fish every second day
Unable to afford new (not second-hand) clothes
Unable to afford a warm waterproof coat
Unable to afford to keep the home adequately warm
Unable to afford to replace any worn out furniture
Unable to afford to have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
Unable to afford to buy presents for family or friends at least once a year.

-You know what I'm not been funny but I have just found out according to this I live in poverty.

If you are deprived of two or more of the above.

gladrags

Phoebas wrote: »

He didn't say that at all. Not remotely.


As long as you're happy....

You don't come across as a barrel of laughs yourself.

Phoebas

listermint wrote: »

Your opinion on this matter disgusts me.

My sister in law is a youth worker she sees this everyday.

I didn't express an opinion on the matter.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

It seems you and Mary need to go to focus this Christmas and get a taste for the waffle you are spouting and thanking.

Just because you don't see it in your cocooned existence.

Seriously can't believe you are saying there isn't children living in poverty. There is alot of it countrywide and no poverty doesn't mean you gave to live in a mud shack and walk 8 miles to. Collect water.


Ignorance is bliss.

You can be cash poor, but rich in life skills. Same as many can be both cash poor and lack life skills. Another poster quoted where children were turning up in creches with a donut for breakfast, because that was what the local shop sold. Did they not sell bread, cereal, etc? Not everyone can live within their budget. That is not necessarily their own fault. Given what we are told is a generous unemployment benefit/assistance payment, NO child should go hungry. Unfortunately, not everyone can cook their own meals. This is an issue that needs to be adressed, but is a subject for another topic.

listermint

Phoebas wrote: »

I didn't express an opinion on the matter.

You realise what the thanks button is for.


Just incredible... The mind boggles the level of deflection folks will go to.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can be cash poor, but rich in life skills. Same as many can be both cash poor and lack life skills. Another poster quoted where children were turning up in creches with a donut for breakfast, because that was what the local shop sold. Did they not sell bread, cereal, etc? Not everyone can live within their budget. That is not necessarily their own fault. Given what we are told is a generous unemployment benefit/assistance payment, NO child should go hungry. Unfortunately, not everyone can cook their own meals. This is an issue that needs to be adressed, but is a subject for another topic.

So not poverty then if you have life skills. Is that it.

As you said different thread.


Enough derailing of this matter I agree on that.

Phoebas

This thread had descended into the same old arguments being posted again and again in the last couple of weeks. Now its gone full retard.

When was the last time it was about water charges?

gladrags

December 10th Arrangements.

"A packed Right2Water press conference this morning ,heard that tens of thousands are expected to turn out on December 10th – International Human Rights Day – for a People’s Assembly outside the Dail.  This will be the third in a series of peaceful mass demonstrations organised by Right2Water in its campaign to secure the abolition of water charges. "

I hope everyone reading this,will be in attendance.

Yes?
No?

yipeeeee

yipeeeee wrote: »

You know what you could be right. I may well be wrong but I just don't see anything like those stats suggest in society.

But I could be wrong and i hold my hands up if I am.

so where have you been looking??

I worked in a school 5 years ago and back then over 50% of the children came to school with no breakfast at all. We set up a breakfast club. These kids were from 4-10 years old. Since then those figures have increased.

I now work in the area of Social Welfare and there is huge poverty. Today I saw 3 children under 2 years of age living in a cold, damp house with mould running up the walls, over the furniture and under the beds. The windows inside were dripping wet. Both parents out of work. This was all the only place they could afford to rent. The baby was 5 weeks old and already had a chest infection.

A huge amount of people are facing repossession or eviction. They move back in with parents who are elderly and it creates more problems. No space and not enough money. Issues develop with relationships, men walk out, women left rearing kids alone in one room. This is modern day poverty. Its not Rwanda - but its poverty.

Your comments are so incredibly ignorant of what is going on out there in the real world for so many people. Open your eyes. Count yourself lucky in your ivory tower and pray to God you never have to rear children of your own in these circumstances.

yipeeeee

[Deleted User] wrote: »

so where have you been looking??

I worked in a school 5 years ago and back then over 50% of the children came to school with no breakfast at all. We set up a breakfast club. These kids were from 4-10 years old. Since then those figures have increased.

I now work in the area of Social Welfare and there is huge poverty. Today I saw 3 children under 2 years of age living in a cold, damp house with mould running up the walls, over the furniture and under the beds. The windows inside were dripping wet. Both parents out of work. This was all the only place they could afford to rent. The baby was 5 weeks old and already had a chest infection.

A huge amount of people are facing repossession or eviction. They move back in with parents who are elderly and it creates more problems. No space and not enough money. Issues develop with relationships, men walk out, women left rearing kids alone in one room. This is modern day poverty. Its not Rwanda - but its poverty.

Your comments are so incredibly ignorant of what is going on out there in the real world for so many people. Open your eyes. Count yourself lucky in your ivory tower and pray to God you never have to rear children of your own in these circumstances.

Once again i said i dont see anything near those stats suggest, as in one in five in poverty.

Am I not allowed have an opinion?

And I also said I could be wrong.

Highflyer13

As I've stated before, its looking more and more like this is not just about water. People are pissed for all sorts of reasons. This movement could grow far bigger than they could ever imagine. Its the middle income lower and lower paid workers finally making a stand. Thats what it is.

Muahahaha

gladrags wrote: »

December 10th Arrangements.

"A packed Right2Water press conference this morning ,heard that tens of thousands are expected to turn out on December 10th – International Human Rights Day – for a People’s Assembly outside the Dail.  This will be the third in a series of peaceful mass demonstrations organised by Right2Water in its campaign to secure the abolition of water charges. "

I hope everyone reading this,will be in attendance.

Yes?
No?

I've only ever protested in my student days when it was de riguer. The 10th of December will be the first time I've protested in 15 years of working and paying tax. Tens of thousands feel the same and will be there in big numbers.

Anyway back to poverty. I think it is better to look at how much money people have in their pockets at the end of the month. The Credit Union tracker 'Whats Left?' provides a good indicator.

April 2014 ‘What’s Left’ Tracker Findings



Disposable Income

The research results for the first round of the tracker in 2014 again indicates that there are continued signs of stabilisation in disposable income. The improving trend shows us that there has been a drop in the number of people who say their disposable income has decreased over the past year (54% in April 2014 v 65% in April 2013).



1.696 million people have €100 or less left at the end of the month once all the bills are paid, an increase of 32,000 on the December 2013 figure of 1.664 million.



1.154 million have €50 or less left at the end of the month once all the bills are paid, this represents an increase of 56,000 on the December 2013 figure of 1. 098 million.



470,000 have nothing left at the end of the month a drop of 10,000 since December 2013.



These figures would indicate that more people are moving out of the lower disposable income categories and into the higher categories, indicating a gradual recovery in family finances.



Disposable Income – All Adults

Disposable income across the population has decreased by €6 (€182 to €176) since December 2013.



Disposable Income – Working Adults

For working adults, disposable income has also decreased by €9 (from €217 to €208) since December 2013



Net Monthly Income and Expenditure

Average net income for a household in Ireland is €2,710 per month, up from €2,707 in December 2013. In terms of disposable income, an average family household is left with €327 at the end of a typical month, a slight decrease from €367 in December 2013. This may be due to the overall increased costs per household and may take account the impact of expenses like the property tax.



Essential Bills



38% or nearly 4 in 10 put off paying their essential bill on time each month. This represents an increase from 32% in December 2013. Of this group the majority (99%) have to sacrifice spending in other areas to pay their bills - of essential items health insurance (36%) and spend on food (29%) are most sacrificed. Of non-essential items – nights out (77%), holidays (75%) and clothing and footwear (67%), are the most sacrificed items.

A number of changes have taken place in the monthly bill categories in the period between December 2013 and April 2014:

So 470,000 havent got a bean to scratch together after all their bills are paid. 1.6 million people have less than €100 a week of disposable income, i.e. their income is €3.33 per day more than what they are spending. These people just about have their heads above water but every now and again something like a doctors bill comes along and they have to sacrafice something else to pay for it.

A poster on this thread or another water thread outlined how they haven't been to the dentist for the last 5 years because they simply can't afford it. They were laughed out of it by some very vicious posters here who have no ideas what some other people in this society are going through right now. There are 1.6m people nailed to the wall, working just to pay the bills and barely being able to put food on the table. They work all day and end up with a grand total of €3.33, many have half that or even less. Thats the reality of poverty in Ireland in 2014, some on here might like to bury their head in the sand and deny it exists but it is very real for more than 30% of the Irish population.

yipeeeee

yipeeeee wrote: »

Once again i said i dont see anything near those stats suggest, as in one in five in poverty.

Am I not allowed have an opinion?

And I also said I could be wrong.

have an opinion by all means if it's based on something - like experience, working with people who have no homes, no money, addictions, depression, no jobs. Not on heresay.

anyway sorry everyone we have gone off topic - guess as someone else said Water charges and Irish water has opened up issues for everyone.....

yipeeeee

[Deleted User] wrote: »

have an opinion by all means if it's based on something - like experience, working with people who have no homes, no money, addictions, depression, no jobs. Not on heresay.

anyway sorry everyone we have gone off topic - guess as someone else said Water charges and Irish water has opened up issues for everyone.....

But i don't deny these things are happening, I said i dont believe it's as high as stated.

And reading what constitutes poverty made me believe it more.

But if you are telling that one in five are experiencing what you described above and you're speaking from experience then I accept it and admit I'm wrong.

kyote00

I copied them from a Barnardos report:

http://www.barnardos.ie/assets/files/Advocacy/2011-09-All-You-Need-Is-Summary.pdf

BTW: I am not disputing that there are children living in deprived conditions and in poverty.

I also have spend several weekends in the capuchin centre in Dublin helping out - so please, take your lecture somewhere else....

The link to "water charges" might be that if we wasted less on setting up new water companies and focused on fixing, helping people at the bottom of the ladder then we could all sleep better...

My name is URL wrote: »

Those aren't indicators of poverty and Barnardos doesn't use them as such.

You're either just mistaken or deliberately trying to mislead others.



http://www.barnardos.ie/media-centre/news/latest-news/irelands-measures-of-poverty-do-not-reflect-childrens-experience-of-poverty-and-deprivation-barnardos-and-the-society-of-st-vincent-de-paul.html

Red Pepper

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can be cash poor, but rich in life skills. Same as many can be both cash poor and lack life skills. Another poster quoted where children were turning up in creches with a donut for breakfast, because that was what the local shop sold. Did they not sell bread, cereal, etc? Not everyone can live within their budget. That is not necessarily their own fault. Given what we are told is a generous unemployment benefit/assistance payment, NO child should go hungry. Unfortunately, not everyone can cook their own meals. This is an issue that needs to be adressed, but is a subject for another topic.

Come on, quit the deflection. First two lines are just waffle.

Highflyer13

1.7m people with a €100 or less left at the end of the month. Thats the real disgrace to a so called modern western economy. This Government have done nothing to reduce the cost of living and ease the burden while at the same time imposing harsh taxation.

hju6

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can be cash poor, but rich in life skills. Same as many can be both cash poor and lack life skills. Another poster quoted where children were turning up in creches with a donut for breakfast, because that was what the local shop sold. Did they not sell bread, cereal, etc? Not everyone can live within their budget. That is not necessarily their own fault. Given what we are told is a generous unemployment benefit/assistance payment, NO child should go hungry. Unfortunately, not everyone can cook their own meals. This is an issue that needs to be adressed, but is a subject for another topic.

Good god
What goes through the mind of a person living in utopia D4

Come on down to the real world, we await you.

You are our saviour

Banjo String

Just reading up on yesterday's court proceedings, about the 3 defendants in the High Court for breaking a 20m injunction against GMC Sierra.

From the Journal

The sentence was suspended for six months on the condition that the three men do not breach the exclusion zone order, which was enacted by Justice Paul Gilligan on 5 November, with nine protesters ordered to abide by it or face contempt charges.

The three – Paul Moore of Mount Olive Grove in Dublin, Damien O’Neill of Greenwood Park in Dublin, and Terrance Sheridan from Kilbarron Park, Dublin – were before Justice Gilligan at the Criminal Courts of Justice today after GMC Sierra, the company installing the meters, asked the High Court to intervene.
All three had not denied in their affidavits that they had been inside the exclusion zone, but all denied that they had been in any way violent.

On Monday, the court was shown videos which showed the men within 20-metres of works, but Justice Gilligan said today that he was not satisfied that these videos had been authenticated.

The court was told that on 11 November, O’Neill was observed interfering with works, but said that he had done this because an elderly resident had become agitated. Justice Gilligan said that he was only there to judge one issue – whether the order had been breached – and could not take any reasoning into account.

In the cases of Moore and Sheridan, an affidavit by an independent observer, as well as witness testimony, put them among a group of protesters who led a slow walk of GMC Sierra vehicles out of an estate.

Cahir O’Higgins, solicitor for Moore and Sheridan said that Justice Gilligan had been “fair and even-handed” and said his clients would “continue to protest in a peaceful and respectful way” and “not doing anything to put themselves in jeopardy”.

Justice Gilligan had asked the protesters on three occasions if they would give an undertaking not to breach the exclusion zone. On all occasions, no undertaking was offered .

and from the mirror

They were all given 28 days in jail but the sentences were suspended for six months, providing they abide by the order made on November 5.

During that hearing the High Court granted an order to contractor GMC Sierra Ltd establishing the 20m exclusion 
zone around locations where it was installing meters.

The firm secured the rulings after its lawyers told the High Court workers had been harassed and threatened while installing meters in the Dublin 5 and Dublin 13 areas.

Barrister for the company Jim O’Callaghan said breaches of the orders had continued.

After sentences were handed down a woman shouted: “Shame on you.”

Mr O’Callaghan said that the plaintiff was entitled to costs in the case and the judge awarded the costs against the three men.

Solicitor for the three men, Cahir O'Higgins, said his clients’ intention was to continue to protest peacefully and respectfully.

The fourth man, Derek Byrne, also spoke outside the Criminal Courts of Justice afterwards. He noted that he had been ‘freed on a technicality’ on Monday.

“We’ve openly defied the courts, where we said we will not take an undertaking to take the 20-metre exclusion zone,” he said. “All they managed to do was give a suspended sentence.”

“Let them jail us because do they really want to make martyrs out of us?” he asked.

 “I live in Donaghmede and I will walk through that bloody 20-metre exclusion zone if I chose to,” he said. “I will not be told by anyone in this country where I can and can’t go. ”

So, The protesters were basically told they'd not be jailed on the condition that they agreed not to breach the exclusion zone again, and on three occasions they refused to give the undertaking.

The judge let them walk free regardless?

Doesn't look good for GMC Sierra from now on tbh. Admitting they undermined the courts, and despite not jailing them, even after they refused to give any undertaking, was basically handing the protesters a victory, and giving two fingers to GMC (imo)


The Indo completely sex their story up.

Jim O'Callaghan, senior counsel for the company, said breaches of the orders had continued.

A worker was allegedly struck by a van, a known protester "kneed a worker in the face" and protesters breached the 20m safety zone, the court heard. It was not alleged that any of the three men had engaged in this violence.

Mr Justice Paul Gilligan said that, after considering affidavits of witnesses and the three men themselves, he was satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that O'Neill, Sheridan and Moore had breached the order.

He said that if orders of the court were breached or ignored in any way, it undermined the very fabric upon which our democratic society was built.

"As such, the authority of the courts must be respected," he said. "The court cannot simply stand idly by while those who defy its orders go free and those who seek its protection lose out," he added.

He said a prison sentence for contempt of court was a last resort but he viewed the breaching of the order as a "serious affront to the authority of the court". He decided the appropriate penalty was to commit each man to prison for 28 days. He said he would suspend the sentence for six months provided they abide by the order and awarded costs against them.

It managed to squeeze in an allegation of violence against the workers (though, not by the defendants) and no mention of them refusing to offer any undertaking not to breach the injunction area again.

It looks like, with the Shatter / whistleblower saga, the Indo has nailed its colours to the mast, and now must try and weather the storm.

Not printing the finer details of the story shows their biased on the whole saga.

Uncle Dennis needs to be paid.

Grandpa Hassan

gladrags wrote: »

December 10th Arrangements.

"A packed Right2Water press conference this morning ,heard that tens of thousands are expected to turn out on December 10th – International Human Rights Day – for a People’s Assembly outside the Dail. This will be the third in a series of peaceful mass demonstrations organised by Right2Water in its campaign to secure the abolition of water charges. "

I hope everyone reading this,will be in attendance.

Yes?
No?

No. Because I agree with water charges. All should pay (sibject to allowances). Not just the PAYE worker. And am not going to join a demonstration in which the stated aim is their abolition. I don't agree with the nature of IW, but it seems that that is not what the protest is about.

Plates

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

No. Because I agree with water charges. All should pay (sibject to allowances). Not just the PAYE worker. And am not going to join a demonstration in which the stated aim is their abolition. I don't agree with the nature of IW, but it seems that that is not what the protest is about.

I can think of tens of thousands of reasons not to go.

shinzon

Plates wrote: »

I can think of tens of thousands of reasons not to go.

but lets face it if the charges are abolished you wont be on here indignantly saying you want to pay them. lets get real here wont be a peep out of the pro side if we do succeed

Shin

Stargate

Banjo String wrote: »

Just reading up on yesterday's court proceedings, about the 3 defendants in the High Court for breaking a 20m injunction against GMC Sierra.

From the Journal
.

Video from outside the court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhkh0XUKg0s

..

Plates

shinzon wrote: »

but lets face it if the charges are abolished you wont be on here indignantly saying you want to pay them. lets get real here wont be a peep out of the pro side if we do succeed

Shin

No, no. I'm not Pro. I'm Anti "Anti Water Charge" protestors. All being led by the nose by one trick pony politicians who are no more trustworthy than the ones currently in government. Same way as tens of thousands of workers have been led by the nose by unions who were only interested in their own gains.

gladrags

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

No. Because I agree with water charges. All should pay (sibject to allowances). Not just the PAYE worker. And am not going to join a demonstration in which the stated aim is their abolition. I don't agree with the nature of IW, but it seems that that is not what the protest is about.

If you had the time it might be worth your while going.To hear and see first hand,what people feel.

falan

You would swear the country is booming with all these job announcements by the government in recent weeks. It seems to be everyday the last few weeks jobs are being created. Does anyone buy into this ?cos it's not happening in my part of the country. I'll be there on the 10th.

Flex

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

No. Because I agree with water charges. All should pay (sibject to allowances). Not just the PAYE worker. And am not going to join a demonstration in which the stated aim is their abolition. I don't agree with the nature of IW, but it seems that that is not what the protest is about.

Same as myself. Id actually booked the 10th off but wont be going having had a chance to sit down and properly follow this thread a while.

Im in favour of water charges, but absolutely against IW in its current setup. Id thought the protest were about finally demanding value for our tax money, getting quality and cost effective services, and accountability, but it doesn't appear so, especially from the most recent pages. While some people are arguing for that, the primary thrust of the protests appear to be about making middle class PAYE workers carry the load alone again.

I hope everyone who does go enjoys their day though, its been great and very interesting seeing how powerful protests can be, even if I don't agree with their aims

Barely There

shinzon wrote: »

but lets face it if the charges are abolished you wont be on here indignantly saying you want to pay them. lets get real here wont be a peep out of the pro side if we do succeed

Shin

We will be still paying - It will just end up as the usual suspects i.e. the PAYE workers footing the bill as usual.

You'd swear the march was about abolishing the cost of producing potable water the way some people go on about it.


If you're a PAYE worker and are attending the march, you're either incredibly generous or a misinformed idiot.

shinzon

Plates wrote: »

No, no. I'm not Pro. I'm Anti "Anti Water Charge" protestors. All being led by the nose by one trick pony politicians who are no more trustworthy than the ones currently in government. Same way as tens of thousands of workers have been led by the nose by unions who were only interested in their own gains.

You might be surprised that most of the protesting groups don't want any political involvement in the protests, here in Waterford its a grassroots campaign made up of the estates around the city, at the big rally in November the politicians were booed when they spoke.

Shin