**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

dxhound2005

listermint wrote: »

Sligo, Cavan, Westmeath, Galway, Wicklow and it appears South Dublin County council have passed motions of no confidence in Irish water and abolishment of water charges.


Wheels are well and truly buckled on the wagon. Stinging indictment of how these are viewed across the country

Total hypocracy. They all jump on the populist bandwagon and vote against something over which they have no control. But there is no sign of any of them voting this way on the things they do control. Rural dwellers on Group Schemes which draw water from the public mains have to pay these Councils for the privelege. Even though they are taxpayers and are paying for it already according to some here. And the private Group Schemes have to get their own supplies and pay for it.

If someone in Cavan, Westmeath etc has a small B&B which gets mains water, they have to pay the Council full whack. Even though they are taxpayers, contributing to the common finance which pays for water already. And could be using less water than the big private house next door which has no direct charge.

Let them pass a motion to abolish all these charges and I will join in the admiration society.

the groutch

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

the groutch wrote: »

You forgot about Leitrim, although you woudn't be the first person to do that :pac:

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listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Total hypocracy. They all jump on the populist bandwagon.

Ha lol. I love how your posts are getting angrier by the week as more people strike out against your party of choice. It's excellent.

Oh btw politics is a populist game but sure you already know that considering your leanings.


Excellent stuff altogether.


Dissidents the lot of them. Hardline mad sinn fein members all mad for Republican jazz and such waffle waffle waffle

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

the groutch wrote: »

You forgot about Leitrim, although you woudn't be the first person to do that :pac:

Sorry leitrim. My bad.


Go on the lovely Leitrim

dxhound2005

listermint wrote: »

Ha lol. I love how your posts are getting angrier by the week as more people strike out against your party of choice. It's excellent.

Oh btw politics is a populist game but sure you already know that considering your leanings.


Excellent stuff altogether.


Dissidents the lot of them. Hardline mad sinn fein members all mad for Republican jazz and such waffle waffle waffle

Would you agree that the Councils should abolish their own water charges as well as voting for Irish Water to be abolished?

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Would you agree that the Councils should abolish their own water charges as well as voting for Irish Water to be abolished?

Why? There is business rates. Business rates which are far lower that the rates which IW are touting for private homes which you are so much in favour of.

What's your point?

My point is you are getting angrier because the truth is being exposed. The majority of people are not fooled anymore by what is going on across government departments. Eyes are wide open.

I enjoy your anger as it means the scam is now visible in to a wider audience. Your populism id my just cause.

Irish people deserve better public servants God knows I pay through the teeth for it.

dxhound2005

listermint wrote: »

Why? There is business rates. Business rates which are far lower that the rates which IW are touting for private homes which you are so much in favour of.

What's your point?

My point is you are getting angrier because the truth is being exposed. The majority of people are not fooled anymore by what is going on across government departments. Eyes are wide open.

I enjoy your anger as it means the scam is now visible in to a wider audience. Your populism id my just cause.

Irish people deserve better public servants God knows I pay through the teeth for it.

County councils passing motions to abolish Irish Water is meaningless. The Water Services Act will have to be repealed by the Oireachtas to make that happen. But if it makes them and you feel better then that's fine by me.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

dxhound2005 wrote: »

County councils passing motions to abolish Irish Water is meaningless. The Water Services Act will have to be repealed by the Oireachtas to make that happen. But if it makes them and you feel better then that's fine by me.

Then why does it make you so annoyed. It's populist nonsense according to you. You appear quite frustrated by it.

It's obvious more will follow.

Does that annoy you more?

renegademaster

Creative Juices wrote: »

I feel strange these days. For years I was both sickened and angered by what successive governments were doing to this country. Revelation after revelation about cronyism, corruption, dishonesty and injustice disgusted me and I wondered why we the people put up with it. But I am different now. The anger is gone. I am now driven and determined. I am enthusiastic that we have turned a corner and that huge change is on the way. I hope I am right.

it's a great feeling isn't it :pac:

Ace2007 wrote: »

I have no idea what your view is on the water, i.e. whether you believe it should be free for all, or the rich should pay, increases taxes, or whatever.

The thing is though - even the politicians' not in government all have a very different idea of what should be done exactly.

richard boyd barrett stated on rte one night that he believe that we should pay in some form, just not what is being proposed.

We have people saying they can't afford to pay - that's different from being against the idea - i.e. if they could afford it they would pay.

There have been other independent politicians who have said people should pay for their water.

This big idea that change is around the corner is false - for if you listen carefully to the wording of those against it

for example sine Fein



This does not sound like a party who want to get rid of it. Right2water campaign state that the water should be free for all regardless of income or wealth - which is not the view of Sine Fein, nor the view of several independents, nor the view of boyd barrett.

The idea that 150,000 took to the street to protest against water is again false - it was an accumulation of angry over numerous issues about this government.

So what will happen if people vote against the FG/FF/Labour - you'll end up with a wide range of independents/Sinn Fein who won't actually agree on this issue or others - and we'll be still paying for the water in some shape or form

i know i'm not just speaking for myself, we have no more spare cash to give!! end of discussion.

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I take it you were there renegademaster? Well done, the protest needs to be directed at government officials, wherever they may be and to stay as a top news story.

i was there alright, got int he thick of it when he arrived, got near his door when he was stepping out of the car but got pulled away violently by a garda, scuffles ensued and i eventually got out of his clutches, then i got thrown into another protestor by a garda, all the time roaring at enda, it's a real amphitheatre down at the radisson, he tripped up tryin to get towards the door lol, i'm still waiting on my mate to upload the videos he has from the better angle

masculinist wrote: »

Why is that so hard to believe ? We learned about the arrival of the IMF and the bail out of banks not from RTE but from the BBC. On one of the most important days in Irish history , RTE had obviously taken some lessons from North Korea and was showing some propaganda clip about a successful potato farmer proving we have a successful debt free export oriented economy so dont panic - all is well praise our dear leaders . If I see successful farmers on RTE now , I start stocking up on food because I suspect a massive famine is about to arrive. Thats how little credibility they have. RTE have never been independent. Gay Byrne in his bio or whatever told how he was informed by RTE top brass that if he shaked Gerry Adams hand he would be sacked immediately. So when Adams appeared on the Late Late Show his handshake was declined. What effect this had on the peace process I do not know. I do know the peace process did receive a lot of obstruction from unlikely sources. I dont say this to support anyones politics but to show that freedom to produce what you want on your own show has not traditionally existed.

i was radicalised that night, to hell with the consequences i was never falling back to sheep again

Satriale wrote: »

Good on ye Renegade, 100 protestors is better than 1000 lick@rses.

:pac::pac:

Irish Steve wrote: »

I applaud 100 people turning out to give Enda a hard time, he deserves it for all of the insincerity we've had to put up with since he got his hands on the power keys.

I'd still prefer to have a 1 to 1 with him if it was even possible, to try and get a real feel for what he stands for, and where he draws the line, but I suspect my chances of that happening are less than zero, he's not going to be prepared to meet me any time soon, regardless of how good or bad my case might be.

So, the only avenue that's open to us is to make as big a pain of ourselves as we can to the rest of his organisation, by lobbying, picketing, writing or e-mailing, and doing anything else we can to get their attention, there has to come a point where they will begin to understand just how strongly people are stirred up about the direction they are taking.

+1 for the 1 to 1, oh how we can dream

Ace2007

listermint wrote: »

Why? There is business rates. Business rates which are far lower that the rates which IW are touting for private homes which you are so much in favour of.

What's your point?

My point is you are getting angrier because the truth is being exposed. The majority of people are not fooled anymore by what is going on across government departments. Eyes are wide open.

I enjoy your anger as it means the scam is now visible in to a wider audience. Your populism id my just cause.

Irish people deserve better public servants God knows I pay through the teeth for it.

The majority of people? there was an estimated 150k people protesting recently - as quote by the campaigners - that is less than 5% of the Irish population.

A large proportion of people actually don't care about whose in power - close to 1m irish people eligible to vote in 2011 didn't - i wonder how many of them are now complaining about the water charges???

Ace2007

renegademaster wrote: »

i know i'm not just speaking for myself, we have no more spare cash to give!! end of discussion.

Just a quick question - based on your answer - if this was 2005/6/7 - and we were at the height of the good times with money to burn - would you be against the water tax?

Stargate

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ace2007 wrote: »

The majority of people? there was an estimated 150k people protesting recently - as quote by the campaigners - that is less than 5% of the Irish population.

A large proportion of people actually don't care about whose in power - close to 1m irish people eligible to vote in 2011 didn't - i wonder how many of them are now complaining about the water charges???

Have an election in the morning and see how many care then !

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ace2007 wrote: »

Just a quick question - based on your answer - if this was 2005/6/7 - and we were at the height of the good times with money to burn - would you be against the water tax?

I'd imagine people are entitled to be pissed of about HOW their money is spent.

Any thoughts on that rather than ridiculous comments. No?


Anyone for Irish water as it sits today is clearly either working for Irish water today or a government shill. There is no defending the organisation as it stands today. All the deflecting in the world can't override that

Ace2007

Stargate wrote: »

Have an election in the morning and see how many care then !

But in theory one could say - don't vote, don't complain what the party is power does.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Stargate wrote: »

Have an election in the morning and see how many care then !

He wouldn't like that. The results wouldn't surprise you or me. It wouldn't surprise him either it's just spin spin spin. And there would be more spin when loses come out.

I think they would spin it as populist that's the latest line....

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ace2007 wrote: »

But in theory one could say - don't vote, don't complain what the party is power does.

Anyone paying their wage packet is entitled to opinion be it by ballot box or protest.

That is the country you live in.

Ace2007

listermint wrote: »

I'd imagine people are entitled to be pissed of about HOW their money is spent.

Any thoughts on that rather than ridiculous comments. No?


Anyone for Irish water as it sits today is clearly either working for Irish water today or a government shill. There is no defending the organisation as it stands today. All the deflecting in the world can't override that

You argument is simple - can't afford to pay so won't pay.

politicians who are not in power - who are running in campaigns like the Right2water campaign have clearly stated that they believe people should pay - just not in the current manner.

So how does voting these people into power, solve the problem?? - answer - it doesn't - they will just come up with another way of people paying the tax.

Sinn Fein have said this - so who are you going to vote in instead?

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ace2007 wrote: »

You argument is simple - can't afford to pay so won't pay.

politicians who are not in power - who are running in campaigns like the Right2water campaign have clearly stated that they believe people should pay - just not in the current manner.

So how does voting these people into power, solve the problem?? - answer - it doesn't - they will just come up with another way of people paying the tax.

Sinn Fein have said this - so who are you going to vote in instead?

My argument?

Clearly your new here.

I've been around a while.


Can afford to pay easily. Won't pay. I won't pay for Irish water. It's worse than the HSE. No lessons learned. Fine Gael took my vote and burned it failed on all the promises they gave me prior to power.

I'm in the top rate of tax and my money is being pissed up against a wall of chancers back handers long term failures and the term gets over used but is apt cronys.

Can afford to pay. Won't pay for that sham. They can swing for it.

BigBrownBear

IMO given the fact that a single person wont pay more than e80 a year and a family e210(?) there will be a compliance rate around the figure of the household charge

BigBrownBear

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

BigBrownBear wrote: »

IMO given the fact that a single person wont pay more than e80 a year and a family e210(?) there will be a compliance rate around the figure of the household charge

Is that a fact now?

Ace2007

listermint wrote: »

My argument?

Clearly your new here.

I've been around a while.


Can afford to pay easily. Won't pay. I won't pay for Irish water. It's worse than the HSE. No lessons learned. Fine Gael took my vote and burned it failed on all the promises they gave me prior to power.

I'm in the top rate of tax and my money is being pissed up against a wall of chancers back handers long term failures and the term gets over used but is apt cronys.

Can afford to pay. Won't pay for that sham. They can swing for it.

More fool you for believing their promises - and there lies the problem - any party can tell you they will do this and that - but the truth is - water is going to be paid for one way or the other.

Your not the first that has ignore my question, who are you going to put into power then that is going to get rid of the tax

Sinn Fein - no, they stated that they believe water should be paid for -
Independents - no - many have said they believe people should pay for water

So whose left?


Water tax is a fair tax imo, the tax that people should have gotten angry about and taken to the streets in their numbers was the property tax - as this tax is driven by factors which the public have little or no way of controlling - water you can control what you use.

Just to add - it's interesting the councils who are opposing irish water, are some which refused to reduce the property tax on houses in their areas when they had the opportunity to do so - care about the people - or care about the votes - it's clear - anything they can change - they won't - and anything they have no power to change they'll pretend they do.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

BigBrownBear wrote: »

IMO given the fact that a single person wont pay more than e80 a year and a family e210(?) there will be a compliance rate around the figure of the household charge

There won't. It's too far gone and everyone knows that those prices will be as temporary as endas seat in the top office.

BigBrownBear

I'll rephrase that. Based on conversations with family members and work colleagues there will be a substantial amount that signs up to IW near to the dead line.
These are people who didnt intend to pay weeks ago

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ace2007 wrote: »

More fool you for believing their promises - and there lies the problem - any party can tell you they will do this and that - but the truth is - water is going to be paid for one way or the other.

Your not the first that has ignore my question, who are you going to put into power then that is going to get rid of the tax

Sinn Fein - no, they stated that they believe water should be paid for -
Independents - no - many have said they believe people should pay for water

So whose left?


Water tax is a fair tax imo, the tax that people should have gotten angry about and taken to the streets in their numbers was the property tax - as this tax is driven by factors which the public have little or no way of controlling - water you can control what you use.

As I said you're new here.


I'd vote for sinn fein no problem. I'm sick to the back teeth of giving my votes to two sides of the same coin.

I want something different and having listened to sinn fein for the last two years they are the only party in opposition asking the real questions. FG FF are the same party and both have history's of disrepute so don't sound off that argument at me.

I want some change real change

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

BigBrownBear wrote: »

I'll rephrase that. Based on conversations with family members and work colleagues there will be a substantial amount that signs up to IW near to the dead line.
These are people who didnt intend to pay weeks ago

I don't believe your fake straw poll.

SaveOurLyric

Ace2007 wrote: »

More fool you for believing their promises - and there lies the problem - any party can tell you they will do this and that - but the truth is - water is going to be paid for one way or the other.

Your not the first that has ignore my question, who are you going to put into power then that is going to get rid of the tax

Sinn Fein - no, they stated that they believe water should be paid for -
Independents - no - many have said they believe people should pay for water

So whose left?

Thats far too advanced thinking for the average Irish voter. He is like the goldfish in a bowl that doesnt remember he was over that side a few seconds earlier story : he thinks that by not voting for the crew in power all the problems he thinks they are causing him will be resolved. And unable to look at the past, or what the people he his voting in next will have to do, is surprised everytime to find that the problems remain the same. We have a very simple minded electorate unfortunately.

listermint

I do not want to pay for water in any way

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Thats far too advanced thinking for the average Irish voter. He is like the goldfish in a bowl that doesnt remember he was over that side a few seconds earlier story : he thinks that by not voting for the crew in power all the problems he thinks they are causing him will be resolved. And unable to look at the past, or what the people he his voting in next will have to do, is surprised everytime to find that the problems remain the same. We have a very simple minded electorate unfortunately.

The only simple minded electorate is anyone advocating the current pro theft policies of Irish tax payers finances. Because lets be clear irish water is a pretty large joke on the Irish electorate and the exchequer.

So that would make you simple minded.

No?

Ghost Buster

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Thats far too advanced thinking for the average Irish voter. He is like the goldfish in a bowl that doesnt remember he was over that side a few seconds earlier story : he thinks that by not voting for the crew in power all the problems he thinks they are causing him will be resolved. And unable to look at the past, or what the people he his voting in next will have to do, is surprised everytime to find that the problems remain the same. We have a very simple minded electorate unfortunately.

Clearly you are much brighter than these people

Ace2007

listermint wrote: »

As I said you're new here.


I'd vote for sinn fein no problem. I'm sick to the back teeth of giving my votes to two sides of the same coin.

I want something different and having listened to sinn fein for the last two years they are the only party in opposition asking the real questions. FG FF are the same party and both have history's of disrepute so don't sound off that argument at me.

I want some change real change

That's fair enough - at least you gave your opinion.

Just one point last point - anybody can ask the questions, it's the real answers that they need to give when in power - higher taxes to pay for the removal of say property tax, higher taxes to pay for the water - these will not go down well at all with people.

They have often used the expression "People cannot afford to pay" when talking about taxes like property/water - I'd be very interested to know their feelings and thoughts on what they would do - if people could afford to pay - i.e. if in 10 years time Sinn Fein get into power and the country is back on it's feet - will they scrape the taxes.

I say 10 years because i don't think they will win the next election, but they are growing as party. maybe i'm wrong, but if i am - higher taxes are on the way

Ghost Buster

BigBrownBear wrote: »

I'll rephrase that. Based on conversations with family members and work colleagues there will be a substantial amount that signs up to IW near to the dead line.
These are people who didnt intend to pay weeks ago

Perhaps, like another poster here your family and colleagues have strong FG connections, oh brother! Or youre making stuff up.


MOD: banned for ignoring mod instructions.