**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

Ghost Buster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They seem to be very important issues for a lot of people all right. But I was hoping you might have something from the bigger picture. Like how many meters have been installed and how many customers do IW have signed up now?

Huh. I have nooooooooo idea... what?

Ghost Buster

Tinkersbell wrote: »

To be honest, that looks like a diversion tactic to me.
Something to take the heat off the water tax.

In saying that, if any current FG ministers or TD's were or are involved in tax evasion, it'll be bye bye FG!

Really? I just see it as more of the same. I dont differentiate between FG and FF

dxhound2005

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Huh. I have nooooooooo idea... what?

They have about 430,000 meters installed, doing a rate of 30,000 a month. Due to be completed by the end of 2016. Lots of premises will have to be billed unmetered.

Compared to the London area where they are doing 2000 meters a month and their programme is due to run up to year 2030. Most people in England don't have meters but they all pay for water. Same will happen here for the time being. Biggest difference I suppose is that the English meter installers don't have documentary makers filming their handiwork and commenting on their performance.

Ghost Buster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They have about 430,000 meters installed, doing a rate of 30,000 a month. Due to be completed by the end of 2016. Lots of premises will have to be billed unmetered.

Compared to the London area where they are doing 2000 meters a month and their programme is due to run up to year 2030. Most people in England don't have meters but they all pay for water. Same will happen here for the time being. Biggest difference I suppose is that the English meter installers don't have documentary makers filming their handiwork and commenting on their performance.

Whoop-de-doooooo!! I still have no idea what youre about though.
I posted a quote from The Journal I discovered elsewhere on boards. A quote about the whole cronyism, Denis O'Brien, John Tierney and associated failed county managers and you want me to update it with stats on meterage and registration compliance.
You are a very very odd poster. Sir!!!

DamagedTrax

I do not want to pay for water in any way

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Biggest difference I suppose is that the English meter installers don't have documentary makers filming their handiwork and commenting on their performance.

Biggest difference is that we're standing up and saying no to €800 bills, 7 years down the line (SW Water started billing at avg £150 7 years ago, currently they average £650).

moxin

I do not want to pay for water in any way

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They have about 430,000 meters installed, doing a rate of 30,000 a month. Due to be completed by the end of 2016. Lots of premises will have to be billed unmetered..

Doubt it, they are forcing the installs against residents wishes in many areas now. And I also heard there are water meter fairies going around doing uninstalls granting the residents wishes.

ROCKMAN

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Whoop-de-doooooo!! I still have no idea what youre about though.
I posted a quote from The Journal I discovered elsewhere on boards. A quote about the whole cronyism, Denis O'Brien, John Tierney and associated failed county managers and you want me to update it with stats on meterage and registration compliance.
You are a very very odd poster. Sir!!!

D-E-F-L-E-C-T-I-O-N tactics

Maybe

Works well when you cannot defend the facts been presented. So I've heard.

dxhound2005

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Whoop-de-doooooo!! I still have no idea what youre about though.
I posted a quote from The Journal I discovered elsewhere on boards. A quote about the whole cronyism, Denis O'Brien, John Tierney and associated failed county managers and you want me to update it with stats on meterage and registration compliance.
You are a very very odd poster. Sir!!!

Just trying to be helpful. You posted a very detailed report which you titled:

So, lets see – Irish Water: a synopsis so far.


I thought it was all your own work. But I see now it wasn't and you probably weren't aware that "so far" wasn't really so far, but nearly a year out of date.

Irish Water a synopsis so far should surely include the number of meters installed and the number of customers signed up. But maybe that is just my very very odd way of looking at things.

dxhound2005

moxin wrote: »

Doubt it, they are forcing the installs against residents wishes in many areas now. And I also heard there are water meter fairies going around doing uninstalls granting the residents wishes.

No disruption of meter installation in Dundalk. No fairies in the town either.

smokin ace

moxin wrote:

Doubt it, they are forcing the installs against residents wishes in many areas now. And I also heard there are water meter fairies going around doing uninstalls granting the residents wishes.

there is water meter fairies around the area where I live so what would happen to the house holder if the meter fairies made the meter disappear

Ghost Buster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just trying to be helpful. You posted a very detailed report which you titled:

So, lets see – Irish Water: a synopsis so far.


I thought it was all your own work. But I see now it wasn't and you probably weren't aware that "so far" wasn't really so far, but nearly a year out of date.

Irish Water a synopsis so far should surely include the number of meters installed and the number of customers signed up. But maybe that is just my very very odd way of looking at things.

Youre posts are becoming increasingly twattish now...with all due respect.
My issue and why i object to IW is with the corruption at the very core of the organisation.
Thats what the post was about.
And tell me, why should i psychically know what specifics you wish me to pin onto any update? And why stats on specific topics?
Bizzarre...truely

Irish Steve

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Theres been lots since but i think that example (from The Journal but the link is broken) stands unless someone with a time machine has caused a paradox.

But for now lets add:
Hubert Kearns - There as a reward for leaving Sligo 80m in debt
Coleman Shanley - There cos his family donate to Fg but no qualifications besides.
Under performance bonuses
IW worker being given an unadvertised position as a ministerial driver.

Will that do for now?

Here's another one for the list, and another of the Golden Circle sweeteners that were pushed through "the system" on the quiet.

2500 people LA employees now employed by IW even though IW didn't need them, and there's no work for them to do in the new structure. Estimated by ESRI to have the potential to cost 1 to 2 Bn over the 12 YEARS that they are contracted to be there for.

Smoke and mirrors for the Govt, in that as they are now "off the books", that's a MASSIVE saving they can claim in state services cost.

Do they REALLY think we're that stupid? Clearly, they do, or their advisers think we are.

The only solution is to clean out the entire rats nest, and the only way I can see of that happening will be if the IMF have to come back, as they WILL be prepared to do what our "leaders" clearly have no intention of doing.

The DOB thread reminded me of another fat cat unacceptable situation, the Head of the HSE is being paid over twice the money that the head of the Health service in the UK is being paid. There is NO WAY that anyone in the HSE should be being paid that sort of money (€400K, yes, that's not a typo, FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND EURO).

Enough is enough!

dxhound2005

smokin ace wrote: »

there is water meter fairies around the area where I live so what would happen to the house holder if the meter fairies made the meter disappear

This:


What is an unmetered bill?

An unmetered bill is the type of bill that will be sent to customers who do not have a water meter fitted. These bills will be based on assessed charges

Ghost Buster

Irish Steve wrote: »

Here's another one for the list, and another of the Golden Circle sweeteners that were pushed through "the system" on the quiet.

2500 people LA employees now employed by IW even though IW didn't need them, and there's no work for them to do in the new structure. Estimated by ESRI to have the potential to cost 10Bn over the 12 YEARS that they are contracted to be there for.

Smoke and mirrors for the Govt, in that as they are now "off the books", that's a MASSIVE saving they can claim in state services cost.

Do they REALLY think we're that stupid? Clearly, they do, or their advisers think we are.

The only solution is to clean out the entire rats nest, and the only way I can see of that happening will be if the IMF have to come back, as they WILL be prepared to do what our "leaders" clearly have no intention of doing.

The DOB thread reminded me of another fat cat unacceptable situation, the Head of the HSE is being paid over twice the money that the head of the Health service in the UK is being paid. There is NO WAY that anyone in the HSE should be being paid that sort of money (€400K, yes, that's not a typo, FOUR HUNDRED THOUSAND EURO).

Enough is enough!

Not for dxhound2005. He seems grand with this stuff and to paraphrase him ' this stuff only seems important to some' The some with a brain and a conscience.

dxhound2005

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Youre posts are becoming increasingly twattish now...with all due respect.
My issue and why i object to IW is with the corruption at the very core of the organisation.
Thats what the post was about.
And tell me, why should i psychically know what specifics you wish me to pin onto any update? And why stats on specific topics?
Bizzarre...truely

With great respect in return. There is no need to be upset. You gave your synopsis, I added some additional material. Information is good.

ROCKMAN

I do not want to pay for water in any way

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They seem to be very important issues for a lot of people all right. But I was hoping you might have something from the bigger picture. Like how many meters have been installed and how many customers do IW have signed up now?[/QUOTE]

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They have about 430,000 meters installed, doing a rate of 30,000 a month. Due to be completed by the end of 2016. Lots of premises will have to be billed unmetered.

Compared to the London area where they are doing 2000 meters a month and their programme is due to run up to year 2030. Most people in England don't have meters but they all pay for water. Same will happen here for the time being. Biggest difference I suppose is that the English meter installers don't have documentary makers filming their handiwork and commenting on their performance.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just trying to be helpful. You posted a very detailed report which you titled:

So, lets see – Irish Water: a synopsis so far.


I thought it was all your own work. But I see now it wasn't and you probably weren't aware that "so far" wasn't really so far, but nearly a year out of date.

Irish Water a synopsis so far should surely include the number of meters installed and the number of customers signed up. But maybe that is just my very very odd way of looking at things.

If you really were trying to be helpful would you not have just post the facts and figures straight away as you seem to have had them all along ?

Ghost Buster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This:


What is an unmetered bill?

An unmetered bill is the type of bill that will be sent to customers who do not have a water meter fitted. These bills will be based on assessed charges

And thats fair how?
What if Tesco simply guesses how much food you eat and send you the bill?
Thats another reason im digging in my heels. I have a few thousand gallons of rain harvesting around my house. i only use mains for drinking water, tea making, cooking etc. Ingested water.
My assessed bill for a family of 4 will not reflect that especially seeing as I was unsuccessful in even registering back when i was being a good complient little citizen.

dxhound2005

Ghost Buster wrote: »

[/B]

And thats fair how?
What if Tesco simply guesses how much food you eat and send you the bill?
Thats another reason im digging in my heels. I have a few thousand gallons of rain harvesting around my house. i only use mains for drinking water, tea making, cooking etc. Ingested water.
My assessed bill for a family of 4 will not reflect that especially seeing as I was unsuccessful in even registering back when i was being a good complient little citizen.

I'm not saying it's fair. But how else are the water supply company supposed to get money for their water out of people whose meters have been dug up by a fairy?

Ghost Buster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

With great respect in return. There is no need to be upset. You gave your synopsis, I added some additional material. Information is good.

Your posts and posting style intrigue me. I have a certain amount of training and experience in body language, tone,language, interpretation and subtext from my work. I work in theatre and give speech and drama classes.
You have some sort of vested interest dont you.
Are you in FG or work for the state in some capacity?

Ghost Buster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm not saying it's fair. But how else are the water supply company supposed to get money for their water out of people whose meters have been dug up by a fairy?

If cash is such an issue then whats with the 6 figure wages to failed county managers who have 'retired', under performance bonuses, car allowances. gyms etc.
Start there. have a word with those in the know. i reckon you have the means.
Nice of you to acknowledge that its not fair though. We're getting somewhere with you guys...you are one of 'you guys' arent you?

dxhound2005

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Your posts and posting style intrigue me. I have a certain amount of training and experience in body language, tone,language, interpretation and subtext from my work. I work in theatre and give speech and drama classes.
You have some sort of vested interest dont you.
Are you in FG or work for the state in some capacity?

You are as far out as Kish Lighthouse.

Ghost Buster

ROCKMAN wrote: »

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They seem to be very important issues for a lot of people all right. But I was hoping you might have something from the bigger picture. Like how many meters have been installed and how many customers do IW have signed up now?[/QUOTE]





If you really were trying to be helpful would you not have just post the facts and figures straight away as you seem to have had them all along ?

He had to pop into work to get the facts and figures. I think i know who this is!!!!!:D

Ghost Buster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are as far out as Kish Lighthouse.

Sorry.
Ill Pm back the 5 posters who gave me the false heads up on your FG and State Board connections.
Im gullible i guess.

Ghost Buster

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are as far out as Kish Lighthouse.

How much is a stamp these days. Im going to start lobbying the only TRUE TDS in my area...

twowheelsgood

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are as far out as Kish Lighthouse.

I'm sure there's a drinking game we could get going here in conjunction with all these shill cries.

Irish Steve

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Not in the least bit surprising to me. No other country abandoned it's property tax meaning there was no need to maintain a database of properties. This meant that when property tax was reintroduced they had to start from scratch and the deadline was extended a few times. All the dire predictions about mass homelessness doesn't seem to have ensued. And all the protestors lining themselves up to go to jail must have had a change of mind.

Same with water, complete new database being set up. Some politicians have said that the timeline was too ambitious. The metering programme was always due to run into 2016. It will take as long as it takes but everyone will be on board through time.

The way they did it was and is a total shambles. There were at least 2 existing databases in place that would go a very long way towards having the information that IW needed for their task

The first is the data base used by An Post for their mail sorting systems, which is not much talked about, but it's effectively their solution to the absence of Post codes ( Yes, another government screw up, but we won't go there in this thread), and there's another database that covers pretty much every address in the country, and that's the one used by ESB.

The more I look closely at what's going on at IW, the more I become convinced that there's not a senior manager among them that has the capability to grasp the big picture and make it happen, every name we're seeing in the press or other media has a previous history of failure, too often at MY expense, and I am sick of being the one that ends up paying these vultures a fat salary and pension to fail, and cost me even more as a result.

There is only one solution now, the IMF has to come back and clean the lot out, and then insist that the people that are put in to run IW, and all the other state services, are capable of doing the job that they are employed for. Most of the people parachuted into IW do NOT fit that category, they are there as a reward for their efforts in supporting the Golden Circle in making the political elite and their supporters untouchable by the people.

And just to be very clear, I am NOT against the concept of paying for water based on consumption, (with appropriate protections for the truly vulnerable) but what makes my blood boil beyond anger is that I am being expected to pay massively more than the real value and cost of that service to contribute to the slush fund that will be paid to the failures of the semi state services, and for the governments lack of backbone in dealing with the overstaffing issues in the LA's. 2500 people on the payroll of IW but with no real work to do so that the Government can claim to have reduced the cost of state services is just another glaring insult and indication of the arrogance and ignorance of the leadership, if they think we won't notice or care, they are VERY mistaken.

Creative Juices

Irish Steve wrote: »

And just to be very clear, I am NOT against the concept of paying for water based on consumption, (with appropriate protections for the truly vulnerable) but what makes my blood boil beyond anger is that I am being expected to pay massively more than the real value and cost of that service to contribute to the slush fund that will be paid to the failures of the semi state services, and for the governments lack of backbone in dealing with the overstaffing issues in the LA's. 2500 people on the payroll of IW but with no real work to do so that the Government can claim to have reduced the cost of state services is just another glaring insult and indication of the arrogance and ignorance of the leadership, if they think we won't notice or care, they are VERY mistaken.

+1

I am also in favour of water charges based on usage in principle but the way IW was set up has exposed this FG/Lab government as every bit as corrupt and incompetent as the previous FF government.

I had never protested before until last weekend but I have to say I have felt empowered ever since. I cant wait for the Dublin protest now. At this point I will not be satisfied until the government falls. I am still concerned that Sinn Fein and friends will ruin this for the rest of us but that remains to be seen.

Phoebas

Irish Steve wrote: »

Here's another one for the list, and another of the Golden Circle sweeteners that were pushed through "the system" on the quiet.

2500 people LA employees now employed by IW even though IW didn't need them, and there's no work for them to do in the new structure. Estimated by ESRI to have the potential to cost 10Bn over the 12 YEARS that they are contracted to be there for.

Unless they're on an average of €333k a year, that figure is bull****.

Creative Juices

Irish Steve wrote: »

2500 people on the payroll of IW but with no real work to do so that the Government can claim to have reduced the cost of state services is just another glaring insult and indication of the arrogance and ignorance of the leadership, if they think we won't notice or care, they are VERY mistaken.

This is what scuppered the HSE from the start. Amalgamating the health boards should have resulted in significant layoffs based on efficiency savings but the unions said no. So instead the HSE created a bureaucratic nightmare that wastes millions each year while front line services suffer.

Ghost Buster

Phoebas wrote: »

Unless they're on an average of €333k a year, that figure is bull****.

Its the figures and accuracy of same you comment on rather than the principle... wow.....