Swimming for Tri Beginners

career move

As one of the people complaining about sore arms, I've found that adding in the backstroke this week has really helped. Thanks Kurt Oh and I'm 4/4 for the 1min plank

Kurt Godel

and still ricky villa wrote: »

'streamlined means less drag'

Great to hear that works for you- I used it myself tonight after reading your post, to good effect.

career move wrote: »

As one of the people complaining about sore arms, I've found that adding in the backstroke this week has really helped. Thanks Kurt Oh and I'm 4/4 for the 1min plank

Good that it helped- our Masters coach is a big believer in this.

Hope everyone is doing their daily planks! At this stage, a solid core will work wonders for your swimming.

Bart86

Week 10

Day 3
200m warm up
4*50 kick
50 ripple
50 catch up
50 armpit
50 fist
30 min TT (swim as far as you can in 30 minutes, record the distance. Steady pacing throughout- if you find your form dropping as you tire, try to slow down and regain better form)
200m choice swim down

Done tonight, 1200 meters in 30 min TT(Not sure if i could go faster, I didn´t want to burn myself out at the beginning), Kept focus on form. I will start doing some planks..hopefully it will help me to keep my form longer while swimming.

I also had shoulder pain few week ago...,Warm up/cool down with backstroke, it helps me a lot!

Steroo

Right so I'm back on Week 1 but I said I'd give some input anyway. last week was a write off with viral infection.

Day 1
200 easy - ok
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed) - ok but used fins
4*50 fingertip - forgot to write this on my drill list so missed it & did it Day 2
4*50 pb - first time with PB & found it very strange but liked it as it kept the legs up
4*50 armpit tap - struggled with balance & form - put fins on after first set & could focus on arms again, still difficult enough
4*50 sw - ok
200 swim down - cut this short as I was out of time


Day 2
200 easy - ok
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed) - done with fins, could feel how my legs should be working as opposed to how they usually work, found I was actually swimming off centre probably highlight a weakness or imbalance
4*50 fingertip (Day 1) - with fins, found it ok but noticed left arm struggled more.
3*100 off 2:40 - found this okay, was getting back at around 2:30 & taking a 10 second break after 50
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:30 - found this okay, was getting back at around 2:30 still & taking a 10 second break after 50
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:20 - started to really feel a rhythm here, had to alternate to breathing to one side a few times this day to keep the breathing going.
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:10 - didin't get to this, ran out of time & doubt I'd get near the 2:10 anyway.
1 min rest
200 easy - did 50 backstroke & 50 Breaskstroke

Shoulder was a little sore the evening time.

Day 3 Was supplemented with a Club session.

Glad to be involved now. Will rest the shoulder & get back at it monday.

Kurt Godel

Week 13- kick focus

Day 1
400m warm up
150m Back flutter
150m Dolphin kick on back
150m Front Flutter 1 hand on board
150m Front Flutter 2 hands on board
150m Side Flutter
150m Side Flutter alternating sides
400m choice warm-down

See this video for details:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OsfFjdnzGc

Day 2
200m warm up
4*50 kick, 15 sec rest
200 sw
400 pb
600 sw
600 pb
400 sw
200 pb
200 warm down choice

Day 3
Repeat day 1

A tough, kick focused week. Make sure you have fluids with you, keep hydrating (450ml water, 50ml tonic water, pinch of salt, pinch of sugar for a home-mode drink). Study the video beforehand- notice how the swimmers toes are pointed, this is what you aim for when kicking. Take 15-30sec rest in between the kick sets, and don't worry about speed. I'd expect a lot of complaints about this week, but persevere through the sessions. Next week will be nicer

iwillhtfu

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think I maybe be coming down with man flu.

career move

iwillhtfu wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

I think I maybe be coming down with man flu.

I think I maybe too :eek:

iwillhtfu

career move wrote: »

I think I maybe too :eek:

Terrible dose altogether

and still ricky villa

Sod that lads. I'm still catching up so have weeks to 'look forward' to this. A big wet pool Sufferfest

Kurt Godel

**Caveat to Week 13**

As I stated in the opening post, my swim training credentials are transparent, mainly because they don't exist. So with that in mind...

There is a purpose to this week, and its to emphasise the importance of good legwork in the water. However, there is no point in crippling anyone, so don't do the kicks the same day as you do running hillwork, or intervals. If you cramp, stop and massage out the cramp. If you want, reduce the kick intervals to 100's. If your legs are too sore for day3, substitute another session of drills from a different week.

The point is- I recognise this might be a tough week, for reasons other than HTFU. Be sensible if you are in pain, or are constantly cramping, and use your own judgement if you should complete or not, rather than some unknown guy on the internet. I hope and expect everyone can do both kick sessions, but because of the different training structures people have, more common sense than usual is required on what the individual can or will do this week.

career move

and still ricky villa wrote: »

Sod that lads. I'm still catching up so have weeks to 'look forward' to this. A big wet pool Sufferfest

At least when your struggling through sets you'll be able to say to yourself "no matter how bad I feel, it's nothing compared to those poor suckers on Week 13" :D

Bambaata

With regard kicking, id be interested in people's kicking method. Do you kick to the same beat throughout or do you kick to a a set beat?

career move

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Week 13- kick focus

Day 1
400m warm up
150m Back flutter
150m Dolphin kick on back
150m Front Flutter 1 hand on board
150m Front Flutter 2 hands on board
150m Side Flutter
150m Side Flutter alternating sides
400m choice warm-down

I really enjoyed this but I got confused and I forgot to do the side flutter. I found the side flutter alternating sides the hardest. It was hard to stay high in the water and breathing was a bit tricky. The dolphin kick was my favourite

iwillhtfu

Bambaata wrote: »

With regard kicking, id be interested in people's kicking method. Do you kick to the same beat throughout or do you kick to a a set beat?

I think I've got guilty feet when it comes to kicking.

Kurt Godel

Bambaata wrote: »

With regard kicking, id be interested in people's kicking method. Do you kick to the same beat throughout or do you kick to a a set beat?

Not sure what answer others will give, but just to say I wouldn't expect novice swimmers to follow any specific kick beat at this stage. The main purpose of kick drills at this stage (as I see it) is to correct sinking legs, to point the foot, to reduce drag, and to feed into a better overall body position. Whatever works, is the correct beat for the moment, anything beyond that might be too advanced at this stage.

Do you use structured kick patterns yourself, Bambaata? I use a steady 6-beat myself, but it sort of developed by its own accord, and its not something I'd think too much about. I'd rarely drag the legs in a 2-beat at all anymore. The amount of intensity used in the kick would change depending on what point the race is at.

rainbow kirby

Tried the day 2 there last night but ended up having to cut it short - right foot and calf cramped together late on in the longest swim rep and I abandoned ship 420m into the longest PB rep because it kept twinging when I was pushing away from the wall. Am still getting over a bit of a bug from last week which probably doesn't help matters.

In terms of kick patterns - the coach of my Friday evening session has always tried to encourage us to use a 6 beat kick. We're coached as pool swimmers rather than in a tri/OW way because most of her coaching is with a masters club.

and still ricky villa

Found this today. Might help some with streamlining. Explains why I get nowhere pushing off the wall.
I'm not allowed post links so you'll have to YouTube - "Swimisodes - Swimming Streamline"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QAHUEGPSAA

tunney

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Not sure what answer others will give, but just to say I wouldn't expect novice swimmers to follow any specific kick beat at this stage. The main purpose of kick drills at this stage (as I see it) is to correct sinking legs, to point the foot, to reduce drag, and to feed into a better overall body position. Whatever works, is the correct beat for the moment, anything beyond that might be too advanced at this stage.

Body position should not required the kick to fix it. If it does then the persons balance in the water is all wrong.

Kurt Godel

tunney wrote: »

Body position should not required the kick to fix it. If it does then the persons balance in the water is all wrong.

I'm taking the assumption most beginners balance in the water is all wrong! I see people in my local pool all the time with dropped legs, noticeable bent knees, toes pointing down to the floor. Their position would be greatly improved by a proper kick.

tunney

Kurt Godel wrote: »

I'm taking the assumption most beginners balance in the water is all wrong! I see people in my local pool all the time with dropped legs, noticeable bent knees, toes pointing down to the floor. Their position would be greatly improved by a proper kick.

Or their position would be greatly improved by working on their balance - using drills.

I'm not as good at them as tango but once you grasp what you *should* be able to do it changes everything.

Kurt Godel

This might be of interest as a mid-term goal for some here. Swim Ireland will have their "Swim for a Mile"* day Nationwide, the 3rd week in May. Details here. There will be coaching clinics held a month before the event, which might be handy to get someone qualified to give your stroke the once-over. Cost to register for SFAM is €25.

*Swim for a Mile=
=1,600m
=50m Pool – 32 lengths
=25m pool – 64 lengths
=20m pool – 80 lengths
=Sprint distance*2.13
=Oly*1.067
=HIM*0.842
=IM*0.421

KillianByrne

Back operation done, getting into some 'careful' exercise again. Looking forward to starting back in here again.

Steroo

Kurt Godel wrote: »

This might be of interest as a mid-term goal for some here. Swim Ireland will have their "Swim for a Mile"* day Nationwide, the 3rd week in May. Details here. There will be coaching clinics held a month before the event, which might be handy to get someone qualified to give your stroke the once-over. Cost to register for SFAM is €25.

*Swim for a Mile=
=1,600m
=50m Pool – 32 lengths
=25m pool – 64 lengths
=20m pool – 80 lengths
=Sprint distance*2.13
=Oly*1.067
=HIM*0.842
=IM*0.421

REgistered Thanks

and still ricky villa

Just did the 20 minute time trial from Week 6. Disappointing to say the least but I swam this morning too and may be pushing it a bit.
For anyone else catching up, make sure you're fresh for any 'test' days.

Funnily enough, I was quicker/more consistent in the cool down than the main set
Any how, onward and upward. 100m TT on Monday.......

tunney

and still ricky villa wrote: »

Just did the 20 minute time trial from Week 6. Disappointing to say the least but I swam this morning too and may be pushing it a bit.
For anyone else catching up, make sure you're fresh for any 'test' days.

Funnily enough, I was quicker/more consistent in the cool down than the main set
Any how, onward and upward. 100m TT on Monday.......

Focus on swimming strong rather than swimming fast.

For newbies swimming fast means high turnover, which means dropped elbows, no leverage, no traction, no push.

Swimming strong means catching the water, holding it and pushing it out the back.

One approach is all show no go.
The other is all go.

Kurt Godel

and still ricky villa wrote: »

Just did the 20 minute time trial from Week 6. Disappointing to say the least but I swam this morning too and may be pushing it a bit.
For anyone else catching up, make sure you're fresh for any 'test' days.

Funnily enough, I was quicker/more consistent in the cool down than the main set
Any how, onward and upward. 100m TT on Monday.......

The 20 min TT is intended as a marker to look back on. It's too far for newbies to be swimming really (as a test), and I put it in there to show up the limitations of swimming for distance at this stage. You learned what happens to your swim when you do a straight 20, and you're not happy with that... "onward and upward" is the correct response.

Drills and shorter reps are the meat of the program at this stage.

woody1

tunney wrote: »

Focus on swimming strong rather than swimming fast.

For newbies swimming fast means high turnover, which means dropped elbows, no leverage, no traction, no push.

Swimming strong means catching the water, holding it and pushing it out the back.

One approach is all show no go.
The other is all go.

im at beginner level or slower than some here actualy but i think this is the key in the long term... i probably need to up my stroke rate a bit but i can do that after i get the technique nailed.. any time i end up with high turnover im just chopping at the water losing my breath and going nowhere..

career move

Week 13

Day 1
400m fc/backstroke
150m Back flutter
150m Dolphin kick on back
150m Front Flutter 1 hand on board
150m Front Flutter 2 hands on board
150m Side Flutter forgot to do this
150m Side Flutter alternating sides
400m pb .... thought the legs could use a break


Day 2
200m fc/backstroke
4*50 kick, 15 sec rest
200 sw
400 pb
600 sw
600 pb
400 sw
200 pb
200 warm down choice

When I was using the pb I alternated breathing on 3 and 5

Day 3
Repeat day 1

Found the drills easier the second time. I like them because they're less monotonous than just doing 4 x 50 kick. I find the side flutter the hardest. Difficult to breathe if you haven't rotated onto your side enough and I found it hard to keep a straight line.

Day 4

200m fc/backstroke
4*50 kick 100 w 2 hands on board, 100 w 1 hand
200 sw
400 pb
550 sw miscounted
600 pb
400 sw
400 pb
350 backstroke

Did an extra swim because I haven't been able to run this week because I hurt my foot. Swimming doesn't affect it thankfully I practised breathing on 3 and on 5 again with the pb and I practised the other drills as well (ripple, armpit and thigh tap)

Make sure you have fluids with you, keep hydrating (450ml water, 50ml tonic water, pinch of salt, pinch of sugar for a home-mode drink). Didn't bother with this .... I don't think I swim fast enough to get dehydrated

Kurt Godel

Hope everyone enjoyed the kick week This week its more familiar territory, the focus will be on a good catch and pull. We've been doing the drills for ages, you are well used to them, but I'm going to take a timeout to expand on what your catch and pull should be about.

Catch and Pull: this is your engine, the essential part to make you move through the water. Swimmers at all levels spend thousands of hours refining, readdressing, fixing, elements of their C&P. In the absence of a dedicated coach showing you correct C&P, some of these analogies might be helpful:

Your hand entry should be as though you were spearing a small fish ahead of you just under the water.

Imagine you are lying face down in snow, and trying to pull yourself forward- you arm digs into the snow and propels you onwards.

Your forearm is a fulcrum- it stays still in the water at it levers your body forward.

Imagine you are pulling from your wrist.

You are swimming in a pool full of inflatable beachballs. With each stroke, you are scooping a ball under the water, and back out behind you.

Pull is just that, pulling with your hand- if entering with a flat hand was the right thing to do, it would be called "push".

As your hand exits the water, show your palm to a person behind you.

Sometimes flicking your thumb to thigh as you exit can ensure you don't exit too early.

Day 1
200 easy
4*100 as (25m pb, 25m kick (use your pb as a board), 25m pb, 25m kick, 15 sec rest)
Main set:
50 fingertip
50 fist
50 pb
50 armpit tap
50 sw
^Repeat 4-6 times, concentrating on good form rather than speed.
8*25 (breath every 3 strokes first 25, breath every 5 next 25, and repeat. Full rest/recovery for as long as you want at each wall. Do these very slow, very controlled, focus on exhaling smoothly and constantly)
200 swim down

Day 2
200 warm up
6*50 kick (without the board if you can)
4*400pb, 20s rest, all done steady pace, think about good entry, catch, pull, exit.
400 choice

Day 3
200 warm up
6*50 kick (without the board if you can)
200pb
2*100sw, 15s rest
300pb
3*100sw, 15s rest
400pb
4*100sw, 15s rest
400 choice

ToTriOrNot

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Catch and Pull: this is your engine, the essential part to make you move through the water. Swimmers at all levels spend thousands of hours refining, readdressing, fixing, elements of their C&P. In the absence of a dedicated coach showing you correct C&P, some of these analogies might be helpful:

Your hand entry should be as though you were spearing a small fish ahead of you just under the water.

Imagine you are lying face down in snow, and trying to pull yourself forward- you arm digs into the snow and propels you onwards.

Your forearm is a fulcrum- it stays still in the water at it levers your body forward.

Imagine you are pulling from your wrist.

You are swimming in a pool full of inflatable beachballs. With each stroke, you are scooping a ball under the water, and back out behind you.

Pull is just that, pulling with your hand- if entering with a flat hand was the right thing to do, it would be called "push".

As your hand exits the water, show your palm to a person behind you.

Sometimes flicking your thumb to thigh as you exit can ensure you don't exit too early.

I have just started one on one sessions with a swimming coach, and this is what she had me doing. Apparently while I can swim, my pull is not existent. Well, after just 30 mins lesson, I have a better understanding of what the pull is about. The way you describe we should be like, it's exactly how I felt. Now to make sure I remember and become consistent with it, as the coach says, when in the group, when things get a bit faster, my stroke falls apart as I try to keep up...but working on it.