Swimming for Tri Beginners

Kurt Godel

Now that this program has been running for a few weeks, I'm curious to know what people think. Is it what you expected? Has your swimming improved at all? Do you approach the water any differently now? All feedback, positive and negative, encouraged and appreciated.

career move

Day 2 Mantra- "I have enough oxygen on board"

From a standing position, let yourself fall slowly backwards underwater, as you exhale slowly and constantly. Make a motorbike "Brmmmmm" sound and exhale through your lips (or say "bubblebubblebubble"). Fall slowly down to the bottom; repeat five times.
200m warm up
50m breathe every 2 - ok feels rushed though
50m breathe every 3 - happy
50m breathe every 4 - meh
50m breathe every 5 - ok
50m breathe every 6 - used pb still found it dificult
50m breathe every 7 - used pb meh
50m breathe every 8 - used pb sweet j$sus
50m breathe every 7 - tried w/o pb .... nearly drowned
50m breathe every 6 - meh
50m breathe every 5 - ok
50m breathe every 4 - ok
50m breathe every 3 - happy
50m breathe every 2 - meh
(20 seconds rest between each)
All of these should be done at a slow controlled pace. Exhale slowly and constantly. Try and keep a streamlined position. Take on air in a controlled manner- you should not be gasping.
3*200m pb, breathe every 3, 20 seconds rest between each.
200 swim down

This was bleugh :mad: The only thing that kept me going through that horrible breathing set was the thought of 600m with the pb

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Now that this program has been running for a few weeks, I'm curious to know what people think. Is it what you expected? Has your swimming improved at all? Do you approach the water any differently now? All feedback, positive and negative, encouraged and appreciated.

I love it. It gets me to the pool 3 times a week. My swimming has definitely improved, I'm much more confident and I'm actually enjoying it

Please do not make us repeat that session I did tonight though

Kurt Godel

career move wrote: »

This was bleugh :mad:

I won't lie, my immediate reaction was "it'll feel easier next time"...

career move wrote: »

Please do not make us repeat that session I did tonight though

See above

This is a session that has a tough midpoint. Tumesense/detumesense (buildup/decline). You build steadily to a hard midpoint, then it gets easier again.

Have a look at your comments (which are very useful to illustrate the point). What felt harder going up, felt easier coming down. When you started this program, I don't think you had the skills to breath on 2, or 3, at will and with ease. Now you have tools in your swimkit that allow you to confidently breath every 4, or 5, or 6. Very useful in a Tri race when someone knocks your ribs as you come up for air, or you are sprinting in a scrum at the start, or an unexpected wave washes over you. If you are only used to breathing every 2 or 3, and you miss that breath, you can go into oxygen depravation, hyperventilate, and your race may as well be over. Hypoxic work (such as what you did in that session) gives you confidence that you are in control of your oxygen intake.

Thats a very well-completed session; you'll make a progress jump from here.

pansophelia

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Now that this program has been running for a few weeks, I'm curious to know what people think. Is it what you expected? Has your swimming improved at all? Do you approach the water any differently now? All feedback, positive and negative, encouraged and appreciated.

Hi Kurt,
I haven't been updating here as I'm way behind - just did Week 3 D1 tonight. Overall it's great though - I won't lie, it's stretching me a bit, and I'm shortening some of the drills partly cause I don't feel up to the full set. I swim in a 20 m pool so adjusting for that too.
Feel like I've a long way to go, but already making progress. Breathing more comfortable and enjoy most of the drills. Love the pull buoy, going nowhere with the kick board, but that seems to be the same for most people here.
Overall, before this thread, I was aimlessly swimming up and down, not as often as I wanted, and not making the progress I wanted too. Still very very slow and a bit like a drowning elephant, but really enjoying the structure.
Thank you!

Kurt Godel

Hi pansophelia,

It's good that you are feeling stetched. No matter what level you are at, swim sets (and drills) should rarely feel easy. If you are finding it tough, you're doing it correctly. Progress will come quickly once everything (drills and swim form) clicks into place, and your times will tumble.

Elephants are very good swimmers, by the way

mrolaf

DO you think its easy to transfer from pool swimming to open water? I swim a 1km pool swim twice a week.

Kurt Godel

mrolaf wrote: »

DO you think its easy to transfer from pool swimming to open water? I swim a 1km pool swim twice a week.

"Easy" is subjective. Given the information above:

If you swim each of the 1kms with tumble turns and do the lot in one go; then that's easily transferable to the OW.

If however each of those 1kms are punctuated with breaks, or stops at the wall, then there is little to transfer, and the OW swim won't be easy.

How do you swim the 1kms?

rainbow kirby

I did the alternating swim/PB set from this week when I was at the pool on Monday, modified for a 30m pool (kept the numbers of lengths, so it was 120-240-360-480-360-240-120 of each). Fairly solid session overall, ended up having to keep the pull buoy for my cooldown though because both my calves cramped hard in the last length of the last swim interval. I'm enjoying the sessions so far - it's good to have some structure outside of my Friday evening coached session, and I do need to be pushing myself a bit more because I got into a comfort zone of just doing 1,500m every time I got in the water.

Am at the awkward point though where I'm faster than just about everyone in the medium lane but a moving chicane to fast lane swimmers though, and that's going to get even more fun with the New Year's resolutioners in January. 9 to a lane wasn't unusual last January. Time to discover the joys of 6am and 9pm swimming...

ainsyjnr

Did the 20 min TT yesterday, surprised myself by completing it and could have continued. Form was going to pot but wasn't tired as such. Had a panic half way as got water somewhere in my sinuses which felt awful but stuck with it and it cleared after a couple of lengths. Glad I had a panic as it's bound to happen in a race.

I echo what others have said, this thread is really helpful. The structure of sessions which progress to help me improve is priceless. Could not find anything on Internet before that took you from beginner to intermediate swimming that wasn't just boring repeats of distance. I owe you a pint Mr Godel.

Kurt Godel

Glad to see so many are making progress and finding the sets useful!

Given the week that is in it, everyone has choice on what swimming they do this week. Bear in mind that swim fitness can and will drop off very quickly, so try and get in at least once or twice during the week.

The only "goal" as such is to everyone to do a Dec 100m TT- full effort, as fast as you can, and update the chart below-ho-ho.

100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47.01|||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|||||||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||||
bart86 |1:51|||||||

career move

100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47.01|||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|2:38||||||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||||
bart86 |1:51|||||||


New PB This was not pretty though :eek:

I kept the same format as the last time:
200m easy
2 x (50m fingertip, 50m armpit, 50m pb, 50m sw)
rest
100m TT
rest
2 x (50m fingertip, 50m armpit, 50m pb, 50m sw)
rest
100m TT
200m easy

During the first TT there was a nice lady swimming in the lane with me so I tried to draft off her (her easy is my super dooper fast!) I started to hyperventilate after about 60m and I was swallowing water the whole time. I had to stop after 80m because I swallowed a whole heap of water and nearly asphyxiated myself. I did remember to stop the timer though but I needed a few seconds to compose myself before I started again. Finished off in 2:39 (33.4, 38.7, 42.5, 42.5)

The second one was better. I was on my own and I thought I was more controlled starting off, but the watch shows otherwise! I still started to hyperventilate but I only had about 10m to go so I was able to keep swimming. Finished in 2:38 (31.8, 37.9, 43.1, 44.6)

I need to work on my pacing!!

Kurt Godel

career move wrote: »

I need to work on my pacing!!

On this general point, pacing is crucial for Triathletes. You need to know how to hold your pace in a scrum at the start, to have a feel for what is right, to hold a pace for most of the race that is sustainable, to push on towards the end; all without exiting the water in bits. As people become more efficient with their stoke, we will bring more paced work into the program.

On your specific times- you are making good progress, doing all the right things, and moving in the right direction. I recognise those sort of splits from when I did similar a couple of years back. Advice given to me then will do here too- 35,35,36,35 will always beat 32,38,43,44. Next time try going off at a comfortable 38,38,3x,3y and you'll smash that pb.

rainbow kirby

On phone so will do table bit later, but did a 100m TT effort today in an actual 25m pool (for once) and did 1:53. Happy with that, sneaky progress

ainsyjnr

100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47|1:38||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|2:38||||||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||||
bart86 |1:51|||||||



Repeated the same session as before, thanks for reminding me Career move, I like the scientific approach. Pleased to see progress being made. Felt much more comfortable with 'effort' in the water. My breathing seems better having worked on keeping one eye in the water during the long pull bouy sets we did the other week.

Didn't have time for much else but noticed that my kick may be starting to come in time with my stroke...it seemed helpful.

MojoMaker

Well done Rainbow and Career Move! Tis the season for PB's!

rainbow kirby

100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47|1:38||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|2:38||||||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|1:53||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||||
bart86 |1:51|||||||


Updating, just because

Bart86

Being on vacation for last 10 days. I tried to catch up this this week.
Week 5
Day 1 Mantra- "streamlined means less drag"

200m warm up
20*50, alternate pb and swim. Tough the last 5*50,
Heels should just break the surface of the water, toes pointed back at the wall you swim from. --> Not sure if i did it like that, I tried to not splash..
300m swim down > Backstroke


Day 2 Mantra- "I have enough oxygen on board"


200m warm up > Backstroke
50m breathe every 2 - I prefer every 3 strokes.
50m breathe every 3 - No issues.
50m breathe every 4 - No issues.
50m breathe every 5 - OK
50m breathe every 6 - At the end of the 50m, I was bit out of breath.
50m breathe every 7 - pufffff
50m breathe every 8 - I could only manage 25m..
50m breathe every 7 - nearly drowned
50m breathe every 6 - ok
50m breathe every 5 - No issues.
50m breathe every 4 - No issues.
50m breathe every 3 - No issues.
50m breathe every 2 - Ok
50m breathe every 8 --> I tried to do it again just for myself but unfortunately , no more than 25m... dammit! . I suffered!

3*200m pb, breathe every 3, 20 seconds rest between each > 300 pb and 300 swim.
It took me a while to complete it..With pb I am slower than without it
Very tired at the end.
200 swim down > Backstroke, but it wasn't warm down as I was in a hurry.

I will do this session again. I need to complete 50 every 8 strokes!!

Feedback
Now that this program has been running for a few weeks, I'm curious to know what people think. Is it what you expected? Has your swimming improved at all? Do you approach the water any differently now? All feedback, positive and negative, encouraged and appreciated.

Before this program, I have never swum more than 800m in a pool. Now I feel confident and I do not get bored while swimming!! Please keep posting!

strummer_ie

I have been otherwise occupied with work, xmas shopping, visiting etc over the last few weeks to make it to the pool.
Now that those duties are coming to a close, I'm looking forward to getting back in the pool next week.

Thanks again Kurt for this thread. I find it extremely useful to have such a structured workout to follow and being part of a 'group' is very motivating.
Over the few weeks that I was getting in the sessions, I was starting to notice an improvement, especially with the awareness of position in the water and look forward to improving much much more !!

Merry Christmas all !!

Stevo1983

Only got stuck into my swimming recently so here goes...

User Name: Stevo1983
Swim Experience: Just used to swim once a week in the gym to mix things up but after committing to an Ironman in 2016 I've got into it properly.
Can you breath bilaterally?: Getting there after a few weeks practice during drills.
Current 100m time: 2:10
Current 400m time: Not sure.
Tri race experience: None
Open Water experience: Just a bit but no proper training swims.
Furthest distance swam: 1300m
Any Other Relevant details: None

Kurt Godel

Time to get back on the horse. I know a lot of pools are on limited hours this week, so if you can only get for 1 session, do the 100's. Two sessions, do 100's and drills.
This week is again about form. Day 1 and Day 3 are the same- do them off the same times both days, although I would hope that you'll come in quicker on Day 3.

Day 1
200 easy
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
3*100 off 2:30 (or whatever your slow pace is)
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:25 (slow pace minus 5 seconds)
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:20 (slow pace minus 10 seconds; this pace should feel "steady")
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:15 (slow pace minus 15 seconds; this pace should feel "fast")
1 min rest
200 easy
Steady pace for each 100. More experienced swimmers do 4*100 of each.

Day 2
200 easy
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
4*50 sw
4*50 fingertip
4*50 sw
4*50 pb
4*50 sw
4*50 armpit tap
4*50 sw
200 swim down
15 sec rest after each drill, all done at comfortable pace.

Day 3
200 easy
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
3*100 off 2:30 (or whatever your slow pace is)
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:25 (slow pace minus 5 seconds)
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:20 (slow pace minus 10 seconds; this pace should feel "steady")
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:15 (slow pace minus 15 seconds; this pace should feel "fast")
1 min rest
200 easy
Steady pace for each 100. More experienced swimmers do 4*100 of each.

Kurt Godel

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Updating, just because

"Updating, just because"; is a very good reason to update. Keep doing so!:D

To anyone else listening in the Great Void- its important that there is a bit of feedback on this thread, and that means updating these 100m TT tables. Its irrelevant quite how large your XX:XX to do 100m is at the moment; what matters is that over the next few months you start doing XX:XX-5seconds , or whatever. Feedback will help tailor this program, which by its nature is dislocated and limited. If you want to become a better swimmer over the next few months, your input is needed on these TT tables, so please do find the time to update!

ainsyjnr

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Day 1
200 easy
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
3*100 off 2:30 (or whatever your slow pace is)
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:25 (slow pace minus 5 seconds)
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:20 (slow pace minus 10 seconds; this pace should feel "steady")
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:15 (slow pace minus 15 seconds; this pace should feel "fast")
1 min rest
200 easy
Steady pace for each 100. More experienced swimmers do 4*100 of each.

Did this today, hit the times on the first three ok but when I tried to go 'fast' for the last set my form was all over the place. Was using 15 secs between each 100 of the 3 but I was quite tired at the end and the last one came in as my second slowest!
I then did a couple of 100s and then a 400 just to see if I could... It was slow but controlled, I managed to find the form again.

I had also been shirking a little on the kick drills to date but I had more time so stuck at it today, first three were horrible but the last two were much smoother, I definitely should do them as they helped my main set. (I swim in a 20m pool so have to do 5 sets, which makes the torture seem longer!)

career move

Did the 100's today. Really noticed not having swum for 7 days at the start but got into the rhythm again near the end of the 200 easy

200 easy
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
3*100 off 2:30 (or whatever your slow pace is)
In on 2:54, 2:56, 2:58
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:25 (slow pace minus 5 seconds)
In on 2:48, 2:50, 2:52
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:20 (slow pace minus 10 seconds; this pace should feel "steady")
In on 2:42, 2:40, 2:39
1 min rest
3*100 off 2:15 (slow pace minus 15 seconds; this pace should feel "fast")
In on 2:29, 2:28, 2:36
1 min rest
2 x 50 sailboat
2 x 50 easy

Very happy with how it went although I did have my sister to pace off. 10 sec PB on the 100m TT I did 9 days ago => better pacing 34, 38, 38, 38

Happy new year everyone

Kurt Godel

ainsyjnr wrote: »

I had also been shirking a little on the kick drills to date but I had more time so stuck at it today, first three were horrible but the last two were much smoother, I definitely should do them as they helped my main set.

The kick sets are a pain, no two ways about it. No pain, no gain, so stick at 'em!

career move wrote: »

10 sec PB on the 100m TT I did 9 days ago => better pacing 34, 38, 38, 38

Happy new year everyone

Thats brilliant pacing, well done!

And a happy New Year to everyone too, lets make 2015 the year of the Fish

EmerN

Hi All - have just signed up for TriAthy and this is my first ever event of this type.
Haven't swam for years so this thread will really help me make progress on swimming.

User Name: EmerN
Swim Experience: None really - can swim (badly) probably a few lengths! Used to swim in pool years ago but never had proper lessons.
Can you breath bilaterally?: Hmm need to figure out what this means!
Current 100m time: TBD
Current 400m time: TBD
Tri race experience: None
Open Water experience: None
Furthest distance swam: Not sure
Any Other Relevant details: Fitness levels come from running. Might join my kids swim lessons as they are probably better than me right now!

Now that I have put this up here will have to get my 100m and 400m times to report back.
Looking forward to this challenge for 2015!

and still ricky villa

May as well throw my hat in now!
I've been watching from afar while working a seperate plan but broke a rib before Christmas so haven't swam in weeks. Will bring the little one for a swim on Saturday to test out the rib and all going well, back in the pool Monday starting on Week 1

User Name: and still ricky villa
Swim Experience: Learned from nothing at 36 so only at it a couple of years. Gone from dead slow to just slow
Can you breath bilaterally?: Yes, but not for long
Current 100m time: 2:48 (based on late November)
Current 400m time: No idea but would imagine it's somewhere around 13-14 mins
Tri race experience: 1 x Sprint (Failed the swim), 1 x Aquathon (went well), DCT 2014 (Slow swim but completed it. I was one of the 'lucky' few thrown into the first wave despite saying I'd be all day doing it. Don't want to repeat that so will make sure I can hold my own better next time)
Open Water experience: As above plus happily swam in Seapoint, Dublin at least twice a week during the summer. Plan to get in next week too if only for a couple of minutes to keep it up. Will be dressed as a neoprene ninja.
Furthest distance swam: 5 buoys in Seapoint a few times. Garmin says it was 1900m. About 2200m in the pool with rests
Any Other Relevant details: 3:09 marathon pb from 15 marathons total. I like the long sessions so looking to go long distance within the next couple of years. Not going to jump in just yet but will plan for a few sprint and olympic next year as well as 1-2 marathons. I'm a stubborn fecker too. Master plan at the moment is 3 sessions a week and one extra afternoon session, 2 if possible. With the broken rib, I can't run and not allowed out on the bike so for at least the next month it'll be swimming and turbo only

Bart86

100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47|1:38||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|2:38||||||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|1:53||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||||
bart86 |1:51|1.48||||||



Did 100m today... No access to a pool for the Christmas break..

Also, did my Day 3, week 5.

200 easy
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
100m
200m
300m
400m
300m
200m
100m
200 swim down

Very happy when I finished it, I thought I wouldn't be able to finish it though. The hardest part was the 400m..but I feel that my form is getting better..

Stevo1983

It will be my first tri too EmerN, looking forward to it.

Kurt Godel

Ok, there's a elephant in the room (not literally... although...). With Xmas over there will be a whole host of newbies looking to turn over a new leaf for 2015, and many of them will only be starting pool swimming now, with every gym and pool offering special offers for new memberships. So to anyone new, welcome! If you can't swim at all right now, and intend doing a Tri in 2015, you've probably left it late to start- but with only 4 months until the start of the Tri season you can make solid progress if you show dedication and consistency. That means making it to the pool at least 3 times a week, and making that a habit.

It would be unfair to those who have been following the program here for the past 8 weeks to "reboot" the program, so that won't happen. Instead, we'll have a crossover week with two levels offered, just for this week. New-newbies can do the curtailed program as described below, while old-newbies can do the full program (everyone still with me?:)). Total beginners can look back over this thread and see the progress people have been making, and how they have been making it. Good luck to all!

Day 1
200 easy
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
4*50 fingertip
4*50 pb
4*50 pb & fist
4*50 fist
100m MAX (2015 Beginners substitute "armpit tap" where you see "fist", and then move straight to the 200m swim down, everyone else continue as below)
4*50 fingertip
4*50 pb
4*50 pb & fist
4*50 fist
100m MAX
200 swim down
(15 sec rest after each drill, all done at comfortable pace)

I don't think we've done fist drill before? Literally, swim with a clenched fist throughout. It's difficult! Imagine yourself pulling from the wrist, that sometimes helps. Both of the 100 MAX are flat out, best effort. Time yourself, and put in the January 100m TT table.

Day 2
200 easy
4*50 k with board (rest at each wall if needed)
4*100 off 2:40 (easy pace)
1 min rest
4*100 off 2:30 (moderate pace)
1 min rest
4*100 off 2:20 (steady pace)
1 min rest
4*100 off 2:10 (fast pace, but not flat out)
1 min rest
200 easy
With the variance in peoples abilities, these times are used for guidance. Pace is more important, and there should be no more than 5-10 seconds rest between each of the 100's. More experienced swimmers do 5*100 of each. (2015 Beginners just do 3*100 of each)

Day 3
200 easy
4*50 k with board
6*400, alternate swim and pb, minute rest after each
200 easy
Keep an easy steady pace for these 400's- you should finish at a similar pace as you start.
(2015 Beginners substitute "6*400" with "4*200", alternate swim and pb)

Kurt Godel

This is an essay written by Gary Hall Snr., entitled FUNDAMENTALS OF FAST SWIMMING. Its well worth a read, it explains in very clear terms what slows humans down in the water, and how to overcome it. We aren't built to swim (like we are built to run, for instance), so need to focus on our technique in the water, if we want to get the most out of our power.

I've been reading it as food for thought regarding my own swimming, but its equally as useful to anyone at any stage, with an interest in getting faster.

FUNDAMENTALS OF FAST SWIMMING