Want a simple program to get stronger?

marialouise

Brian? wrote: »

Good to hear you want to get bigger . Here's the thing, you shouldn't be doing a bodybuilder program IMO. It's wasted on you. You should be doing something like this to get stronger, depending on your current lifts.

If you drive towards a 1.5 bw squat and deadlift, you will have some serious legs to show off. I don't know how far off this you are, but it doesn't need to be a short term goal.

Thanks, I needed to hear some of that. The bodybuilder in me thinks "no you won't get bigger doing 5x2" but of course if it's a heavy enough weight I will!! 
I am even a little ashamed to write current lifts here as I am currently deadlifting bodyweight but at a ridiculous volume, you'd laugh at it, so I'm pretty sure if I swap to 5x8 with everything, I'll have a better idea of the numbers. Not even squatting my bodyweight yet as I am again doing stupid volume, so will cut back the reps a lil bit and up the weight gradually. Wooh! 
To be honest, the aesthetics is sliiiiightly more important to me than the numbers on the bar right now.. I have broad shoulders and narrow hips and since I lost weight it all looks a bit ridiculous off and buying clothes has become really difficult so am trying to put on some muscle on the lower half to be more in proportion. Anyway I enjoy squatting and deadlifting a million times more than any aerobic activity (and am pretty active anyway) so want to keep going. This programme looks like I'll get the numbers on the lifts and then with the B-E get those muscles worked even if I am doing lower volume of the big lifts, so with all the exercises and lots of food I don't see how I can't grow  
Thank you everyone who replied

Alf Veedersane

marialouise wrote: »

Thanks, I needed to hear some of that. The bodybuilder in me thinks "no you won't get bigger doing 5x2" but of course if it's a heavy enough weight I will!! 
I am even a little ashamed to write current lifts here as I am currently deadlifting bodyweight but at a ridiculous volume, you'd laugh at it, so I'm pretty sure if I swap to 5x8 with everything, I'll have a better idea of the numbers. Not even squatting my bodyweight yet as I am again doing stupid volume, so will cut back the reps a lil bit and up the weight gradually. Wooh! 
To be honest, the aesthetics is sliiiiightly more important to me than the numbers on the bar right now.. I have broad shoulders and narrow hips and since I lost weight it all looks a bit ridiculous off and buying clothes has become really difficult so am trying to put on some muscle on the lower half to be more in proportion. Anyway I enjoy squatting and deadlifting a million times more than any aerobic activity (and am pretty active anyway) so want to keep going. This programme looks like I'll get the numbers on the lifts and then with the B-E get those muscles worked even if I am doing lower volume of the big lifts, so with all the exercises and lots of food I don't see how I can't grow  
Thank you everyone who replied

That was quite refreshing to read, tbh

Brian?

marialouise wrote: »

Thanks, I needed to hear some of that. The bodybuilder in me thinks "no you won't get bigger doing 5x2" but of course if it's a heavy enough weight I will!! 
I am even a little ashamed to write current lifts here as I am currently deadlifting bodyweight but at a ridiculous volume, you'd laugh at it, so I'm pretty sure if I swap to 5x8 with everything, I'll have a better idea of the numbers. Not even squatting my bodyweight yet as I am again doing stupid volume, so will cut back the reps a lil bit and up the weight gradually. Wooh! 
To be honest, the aesthetics is sliiiiightly more important to me than the numbers on the bar right now.. I have broad shoulders and narrow hips and since I lost weight it all looks a bit ridiculous off and buying clothes has become really difficult so am trying to put on some muscle on the lower half to be more in proportion. Anyway I enjoy squatting and deadlifting a million times more than any aerobic activity (and am pretty active anyway) so want to keep going. This programme looks like I'll get the numbers on the lifts and then with the B-E get those muscles worked even if I am doing lower volume of the big lifts, so with all the exercises and lots of food I don't see how I can't grow  
Thank you everyone who replied

Good for you.

Have you considered competing in power lifting? Could be a real motivation. There a few ladies who post here that compete.

marialouise

Brian? wrote: »

Good for you.

Have you considered competing in power lifting? Could be a real motivation. There a few ladies who post here that compete.

MMMmmm as I said a few posts back, I'm living abroad and train alone, so I'd really want to be at home with a powerlifting club before I'd consider training hard for a meet. Also the gym is purely recreational for now. I'm still studying and my future career path is in a field which is already highly competitive and mentally/emotionally challenging. I like that the gym for me is a place to get away from all that, so I don't want to turn it into something competitive just yet.
This career also happens to involves very precise arm/upper body movements which are completely incompatible with DOMs (learned that the hard way going to college after benching)... I also have two part time jobs and changing schedules every week with lots of travel also, hard to keep a really decent training routine. I do my best though, and enjoy it a lot so have no problem making time for the gym in the middle of all of that. I keep an eye on the IPF competitions, competitors and results and I did some strength and conditioning classes over the summer in one club so I could see it being something I'd do down the line but it's just not possible at the moment. Or I should say I am have other priorities at the moment... 
Just tried 5x8 tonight on deadlifts, never filmed myself before in my life and just did it tonight for the craic, form isn't great so might try work on that a bit with lighter weights before moving up any heavier. Glad I caught it on Day 1 though :P

Mellor

marialouise wrote: »

The bodybuilder in me thinks "no you won't get bigger doing 5x2" but of course if I eat enough I will!!

FYP

Lifting heavy is important, but don't neglect to give your muscles fuel to grow

marialouise

Mellor wrote: »

marialouise wrote: »

The bodybuilder in me thinks "no you won't get bigger doing 5x2" but of course if I eat enough I will!!

FYP

Lifting heavy is important, but don't neglect to give your muscles fuel to grow

Thanks. I don't need as much help eating as I do lifting though, it comes pretty naturally!

Feenix

Going to start this tomorrow. Can anyone tell me if this seems balanced? Still not 100% on what exactly I need to work on to improve the main lifts.

A
Bench
Incline Bench
Shoulder Press
Skull Crusher
Cable Cross thing for chest. Not sure what it is called.

B
Squat
Front squat
Lunge
Leg extension
Something for calf

C
Deadlift
Barbell Row
RDL
Lat Pulldown
Glute Machine

Dtp1979

Feenix wrote: »

Going to start this tomorrow. Can anyone tell me if this seems balanced? Still not 100% on what exactly I need to work on to improve the main lifts.

A
Bench
Incline Bench
Shoulder Press
Skull Crusher
Cable Cross thing for chest. Not sure what it is called.

B
Squat
Front squat
Lunge
Leg extension
Something for calf

C
Deadlift
Barbell Row
RDL
Lat Pulldown
Glute Machine

C
Deadlift
RDL
Snatch grip DL
Glute machine
Hip thrust
Or leg curls

Alf Veedersane

I'd have the bench day between squat and deadlift day, just in case the layout is reflective of the intended order.

Also, something for the calves? Probably more useful exercises for building an element of the squat.

FTA69

Leg Press would probably be a better shout than the calf stuff?

marialouise

F******* hell. Squat day! Last week I only got A-C done, this week I got A-D done. Both times was because I went to the gym after work and it was closing. Ended up crawling out of the gym anyway both times... Came home and did some bodyweight stuff and stretches. Should it be taking me this long (was there for 1h15m and still didn't get through everything)? 
That being said, I don't care that I don't get it finished. My squat was great both weeks and I am enjoying following SOME sort of structure instead of arsing around in the gym. I am also coming from a place where I followed ridiculous programmes to the set and rep and tempo, and got really anxious when it didn't go to plan, so I'm delighted to have had good squat sessions and getting *some* accessory work done. Seems like a good workout anyway, even without a proper E! 
Also my food scales battery has run out and for the first time in a few months I have gone weeks without tracking my food. Again, this is coming from a place where I was obsessive to the gram about what I was eating, so I am enjoying so much just eating intuitively, lifting progressively and keeping an eye on the scales and my lifts. Yay simple programme!

Alf Veedersane

If you have the weight right you'll be needing a bit more rest between sets so it might take a while alright.

Feenix

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'd have the bench day between squat and deadlift day, just in case the layout is reflective of the intended order.

Also, something for the calves? Probably more useful exercises for building an element of the squat.

Any examples of what would be more useful?

Alf Veedersane

Feenix wrote: »

Any examples of what would be more useful?

Something for the glutes like hip thrusts or cable pull-through. It kinda depends on what your weak points are but glute work will always help.

guile4582

marialouise wrote: »

F******* hell. Squat day! Last week I only got A-C done, this week I got A-D done. Both times was because I went to the gym after work and it was closing. Ended up crawling out of the gym anyway both times... Came home and did some bodyweight stuff and stretches. Should it be taking me this long (was there for 1h15m and still didn't get through everything)? 
That being said, I don't care that I don't get it finished. My squat was great both weeks and I am enjoying following SOME sort of structure instead of arsing around in the gym. I am also coming from a place where I followed ridiculous programmes to the set and rep and tempo, and got really anxious when it didn't go to plan, so I'm delighted to have had good squat sessions and getting *some* accessory work done. Seems like a good workout anyway, even without a proper E! 
Also my food scales battery has run out and for the first time in a few months I have gone weeks without tracking my food. Again, this is coming from a place where I was obsessive to the gram about what I was eating, so I am enjoying so much just eating intuitively, lifting progressively and keeping an eye on the scales and my lifts. Yay simple programme!

I am on week 6 (95% rm) and I am getting it all done and dusted in about 1 hr 30 mins every week - including a good dynamic stretch routine to begin with and stretching at the end. For the "bodybuilder" type exercises I am not going really heavy at all

p.s. I have gone from notch two on my jeans belt to notch four. so this routine is perfectly complementing my cardio/HIIT

Alf Veedersane

guile4582 wrote: »

For the "bodybuilder" type exercises I am not going really heavy at all

If there's no challenge to them, you might as well not do them. You don't have to go heavy but at least try and make them a challenge of some description, if they're not.

guile4582

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If there's no challenge to them, you might as well not do them. You don't have to go heavy but at least try and make them a challenge of some description, if they're not.

there is a challenge. every rep is a good tempo perfectly executred. rather than struggling on rep 10 to 12 if you know what I mean. i will progress those lifts in weeks 7 to 12. but again my motivation on this one is perfect execution, so wont overload

marialouise

Ok well I didn't have 1h30m in the gym on either occasion due to work, but I kicked as  in the time that I could. Why don't you go heavy on the bodybuilding part? My goal is more hypertrophy than strength but I've  said in the thread I know they go hand in hand. I'm only training three days a week so I went absolutely full on for A-D, just didn't get time for E. I still executed my exercises well with a good tempo, but with a challenging weight that made me curse Hanley by about rep 8 on each set of 12. It's hardly going to be an overload now with a week until I hit those muscles again?

guile4582

marialouise wrote: »

Ok well I didn't have 1h30m in the gym on either occasion due to work, but I kicked as  in the time that I could. Why don't you go heavy on the bodybuilding part? My goal is more hypertrophy than strength but I've  said in the thread I know they go hand in hand. I'm only training three days a week so I went absolutely full on for A-D, just didn't get time for E. I still executed my exercises well with a good tempo, but with a challenging weight that made me curse Hanley by about rep 8 on each set of 12. It's hardly going to be an overload now with a week until I hit those muscles again?

I find because of kicking ass on A to C if I go to heavy on D & E, i will only end up cheating on form and not completing the sets of 12 reps ( i dont go too light but I stay managable). I train 3 times a week but also cycle/play 5 aside/HIIT for an hour x2 and swim. so lots going on! this program is working very well for me. but yes I will try and push it a bit more weeks 7 to 12.

*am also of an age now where stretching is very important

marialouise

guile4582 wrote: »

I find because of kicking ass on A to C if I go to heavy on D & E, i will only end up cheating on form and not completing the sets of 12 reps ( i dont go too light but I stay managable). I train 3 times a week but also cycle/play 5 aside/HIIT for an hour x2 and swim. so lots going on! this program is working very well for me. but yes I will try and push it a bit more weeks 7 to 12.

*am also of an age now where stretching is very important

Wasn't trying to criticise so you don't need to justify with a lot going on, I was just curious! 
I live in the low countries so cycle a few kms every single day and have a physical job, so I totally get it about not being able to go too heavy when you have something else going on, I do squats on Monday because I don't work on Tuesday! I'm trying to gain weight so am trying not to do much else apart from the three days...  Eating loads and smashing gym sessions has to be priority for me right now. 
Also... should HIIT be an hour? That seems like a lot, I thought the point of HIIT was that you give it your everything but only for 15-25 mins or something?

marialouise

Ok so I got to week 6 of bench and could hardly do the 2nd rep on either set without a spotter. I managed the 5x3 last week without much difficulty (used a spotter on the last rep of the last two sets), and added 2.5kg this week and I guess it was just a bit too much. What do I do now?

Alf Veedersane

marialouise wrote: »

Ok so I got to week 6 of bench and could hardly do the 2nd rep on either set without a spotter. I managed the 5x3 last week without much difficulty (used a spotter on the last rep of the last two sets), and added 2.5kg this week and I guess it was just a bit too much. What do I do now?

It's go again time, isn't it?

Start from a higher baseline and go up again. You might not get to week 12 and get through all the prescribed reps but the ultimate goal is to get stronger.

Where was your bench in relation to your 'max'?

marialouise

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's go again time, isn't it?

Start from a higher baseline and go up again. You might not get to week 12 and get through all the prescribed reps but the ultimate goal is to get stronger.

Where was your bench in relation to your 'max'?

Well I've never really benched before so I've never tested a max. I just kinda took a stab at it and did:
22.5kg x8
25 x 6
27.5 x 5
30 x 4
32.5 x 3 
35 x2
I know these are pathetically light weights but I am a beginner and was ≈65kg starting out so there wasn't much room in terms of increments to progress with. So do I do it all again with 25 x 8 and aim for 35 x 3 in week11 even though I couldn't do it for 2 in week 6?

Alf Veedersane

marialouise wrote: »

Well I've never really benched before so I've never tested a max. I just kinda took a stab at it and did:
22.5kg x8
25 x 6
27.5 x 5
30 x 4
32.5 x 3 
35 x2
I know these are pathetically light weights but I am a beginner and was ≈65kg starting out so there wasn't much room in terms of increments to progress with. So do I do it all again with 25 x 8 and aim for 35 x 3 in week11 even though I couldn't do it for 2 in week 6?

First off, don't feel like you have to qualify the weight.

You can try that again. If the 35 x 3 doesn't go down (and back up) in week 11, drop the weight a small bit and see it out.

But there's no reason why you won't be strong enough for 35x3 in 5 weeks!

coffee_cake

marialouise wrote: »

I know these are pathetically light weights

Nothing is pathetically light, you focus on you. We're all on our own journeys here
I'd kinda go with alf
maybe repeat the last 2 weeks by dropping back the weight a bit but higher than when you did them

marialouise

Yeah okay I was half-joking, I know I'm not gonna have Dtp1979's starting weights :P I did mean it a little bit though, as there is so little weight to play with. It would be fine if I was going up 5kg every week I could just drop back to 2.5kg increments but when I'm already struggling with another 2.5kg and maxing at a very low weight there's almost nowhere left to go! 

In other news, I am squatting almost as much as I am deadlifting haha. I am not on the same "week" in every lift as I didn't start them all at the same time and haven't always been able to go 3 days. Next squats are 60kg x 2 and next deadlift is 70kg x4, bit of a difference! I had previously squatted and had someone in Ireland supervise me so I was a bit more confident with that. I'm abroad again now and have more or less been teaching myself how to deadlift using YouTube and filming myself so I'm trying to be really careful before I go too heavy. The weight itself feels pretty easy I'm just being a stickler for form and not moving up a weight if it's not good, but it's better now so when I get back to week 7  I might add 10kg instead of 5.
On another note, pages back I said I wanted to put on weight; eating loads is, as expected, no problem. Thanks for your input everyone

stockshares

I've been considering Wenlders 531 but am going to give this a go.

Can you let me know what you think of the exercises and the exercise order and if there are better exercises to use. E g could rack pulls be used on Squat day and front squat be moved to deadlift day.

Btw is it better to have 3 workouts per week using Bench ,Squat and Deadlift with the Press on Bench day or 4 per week using Bench ,Squat,Press,Deadlift. Thank you

Option 1
3 workouts per week

Monday
Low bar Squat
High bar Squat
Split squat
Front squat
Calf raise

Wednesday
Bench
Press
NGBP
Bent arm Pullover
Press Ups

Friday
Deadlift
RDL
Dumbbell Row
Chins
Grip work

Option 2
4 workouts per week

Monday
Bench
NGBP
Dumbbell bench
Bent arm Pullover
Press Ups

Tuesday
Low bar Squat
High bar Squat
Split squat
Front squat
Calf raise

Thursday
Press
Dips
Dumbbell press
Lateral raise
Front raise

Friday
Deadlift
RDL
Dumbbell Row
Chins
Grip work