Want a simple program to get stronger?

marialouise

Is
70% 5x8+
75% 5x6+
80% 5x5+
85% 5x4+
90% 5x3+
95% 5x2+

week by week? like Week 1 you do 5x8 and Week 2 you do 5x5, etc? Or is that 30 sets? Sorrrryyyy! And how do you know your 1RM like, I've only ever just kind of squatted until I couldn't squat anymore, using mostly volume, and have yet to test bench or deadlift. Thanks!

Mr. CooL ICE

Just 5 sets per session, week by week, as part A. Week 1 A is 5 sets of 8 @ 70%, week 6 A is 5 sets of 2 @ 95%. You can get an estimate using a 1RM calculator here, or elsewhere.

The OP states that the program is hard and yes, it is. If in doubt, round your estimated 1RM down to the nearest 5kg.

Alf Veedersane

marialouise wrote: »

Is
70% 5x8+
75% 5x6+
80% 5x5+
85% 5x4+
90% 5x3+
95% 5x2+

week by week? like Week 1 you do 5x8 and Week 2 you do 5x5, etc? Or is that 30 sets? Sorrrryyyy! And how do you know your 1RM like, I've only ever just kind of squatted until I couldn't squat anymore, using mostly volume, and have yet to test bench or deadlift. Thanks!

Week 1: 70%, 5 x 8 (the plus means as many as possible on last set). Then do B-E

Week 2: 5 x 6=, then B-E

etc

You get your 1RM by testing what your max is.

marialouise

Thanks for the calculator! Seems a bit less intimidating than loading a big weight and seeing can I move it. Thanks also for clarifying the week's layout.
How many warm up sets would you do before your 5 sets? Like do you do 5x certain weights to work up to it or just dynamic warming up and go?

Mr. CooL ICE

Well, what do you currently do for warming up for squats? If you currently have a warmup routine that keeps your mobility in check and keeps your form solid for your work set, then keep doing that. There really isn't a warmup routine specifically for this program*



*or if there is, you probably have to pay Hanley

marialouise

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Well, what do you currently do for warming up for squats? If you currently have a warmup routine that keeps your mobility in check and keeps your form solid for your work set, then keep doing that. There really isn't a warmup routine specifically for this program*



*or if there is, you probably have to pay Hanley

I do dynamic stretching and lower weights, so I'm currently just doing a few sets of empty bar, 27.5, 35, 42.5 etc because I only squat around 45kg for now anyway. Just wondering for people who squat like 100kg do they start off with 50kg for a set, or how do you work up to a working set without tiring yourself out? I was wondering at what point I will cross over into 'you need to pay for that answer' haha, but just wondering what the 'done thing' is all the same!

Mr. CooL ICE

marialouise wrote: »

I do dynamic stretching and lower weights, so I'm currently just doing a few sets of empty bar, 27.5, 35, 42.5 etc because I only squat around 45kg for now anyway. Just wondering for people who squat like 100kg do they start off with 50kg for a set, or how do you work up to a working set without tiring yourself out? I was wondering at what point I will cross over into 'you need to pay for that answer' haha, but just wondering what the 'done thing' is all the same!

Well if that works for you, then keep doing it. There's no big secret. Like I said before, just keep your mobility in check and do enough so that you aren't cold and your form isn't compromised when you start lifting heavy.

Personally, I do upper and lower body stretches, followed by dynamic warmups, then go bar x10, 40x10, 60x8-10, etc. I basically go up in increments of 20kg until I reach my work set and taper the reps down as I go. If I'm squatting 110kg for triples, doing a set of 10 100kg squats as a warmup would probably fatigue me.

marialouise

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

marialouise wrote: »

I do dynamic stretching and lower weights, so I'm currently just doing a few sets of empty bar, 27.5, 35, 42.5 etc because I only squat around 45kg for now anyway. Just wondering for people who squat like 100kg do they start off with 50kg for a set, or how do you work up to a working set without tiring yourself out? I was wondering at what point I will cross over into 'you need to pay for that answer' haha, but just wondering what the 'done thing' is all the same!

Well if that works for you, then keep doing it. There's no big secret. Like I said before, just keep your mobility in check and do enough so that you aren't cold and your form isn't compromised when you start lifting heavy.

Personally, I do upper and lower body stretches, followed by dynamic warmups, then go bar x10, 40x10, 60x8-10, etc. I basically go up in increments of 20kg until I reach my work set and taper the reps down as I go. If I'm squatting 110kg for triples, doing a set of 10 100kg squats as a warmup would probably fatigue me.

Gotcha! Thanks very much

italodisco

Okay,

There is no such thing as bulking and not gaining fat so please nobody mention it again lol

Anyone looking to get bigger needs to put in the time and effort. It does not matter how 'busy' work is or whatever balls excuse youve got for having to miss sessions, there is NO EXCUSE.

I have friends with 2 jobs and children and they still manage to stay commited .

Pick a routine, stick with it and do not miss a session.

Forget about creatine , protein bars, pre workouts ..... wait til you've got at least a year in the gym done with no major breaks and you have some concept of how to eat properly.

Learn to eat adequate calories , accept that gains are made mostly in the kitchen .

Do not expect to become a beast in 3 months before you head to ibiza , not gonna happen even if you take steroids .

Train for yourself, do it for you and you only. Forget about impressing the 'mots' . Any 'mot' worth the hassle more than likely couldnt care less about your Lat Spread or your underdeveloped legs from skipping leg day lolololol

Hanley

italodisco wrote: »

Okay,

There is no such thing as bulking and not gaining fat so please nobody mention it again lol

Anyone looking to get bigger needs to put in the time and effort. It does not matter how 'busy' work is or whatever balls excuse youve got for having to miss sessions, there is NO EXCUSE.

I have friends with 2 jobs and children and they still manage to stay commited .

Pick a routine, stick with it and do not miss a session.

Forget about creatine , protein bars, pre workouts ..... wait til you've got at least a year in the gym done with no major breaks and you have some concept of how to eat properly.

Learn to eat adequate calories , accept that gains are made mostly in the kitchen .

Do not expect to become a beast in 3 months before you head to ibiza , not gonna happen even if you take steroids .

Train for yourself, do it for you and you only. Forget about impressing the 'mots' . Any 'mot' worth the hassle more than likely couldnt care less about your Lat Spread or your underdeveloped legs from skipping leg day lolololol

Are you drunk?

italodisco

Hanley wrote: »

Are you drunk?

Yes, so so drunk off of all the sh%t advice OP has been given so far

Mellor

italodisco wrote: »

Yes, so so drunk off of all the sh%t advice OP has been given so far

Well good thing you're here now to hand out solid advice like;

italodisco wrote: »

Pick a routine, stick with it and do not miss a session.

I imagine beginners will have no issues figuring that out.

cloudatlas

I just did the first day of Hanley's plan as per the spreadsheet.
Do you decide what weights to do for the lunge etc., ?

I found the lunge difficult as the bar would move ever so slightly on the shoulders as my legs bounced forward and back up as I planted my feet.

Dtp1979

cloudatlas wrote: »

I just did the first day of Hanley's plan as per the spreadsheet.
Do you decide what weights to do for the lunge etc., ?

I found the lunge difficult as the bar would move ever so slightly on the shoulders as my legs bounced forward and back up as I planted my feet.

Do walking lunges with dumbells

Cake Man

Lads, just a question in relation to what was discussed the last few pages. I notice it mentioned that if trying to build muscle, it's best to go with an 8-12 rep range, whereas for strength it would be more 4-6 reps. I'm guessing this means going heavy on the 4-6 but maybe only 70-80% on the 8-12?


To put an example for context, my max squat at the moment is 90kg. I'd like to hit 100kg but struggling to eek out more than about 3 reps at 90kg but ultimately my goal is to build muscle. When doing squats, I'll warm up with some foam rolling & stretching, third world squats and maybe a few reps with the bar. Then do something like 60kgx10 (usually 2 sets), 70kgx8-10, 80kgx6-8 (usually 2 sets), 90kgx2-3, 70kgx6-8 to finish. Would people think this is effective/efficient? Would I be better off staying around the 70kg and ensuring I can nail 12reps for a few sets before moving up?


I ask because I've recently read that to stimulate muscle growth, getting to or near to failure will achieve that so if that's the case - it wouldn't really matter what weight you're lifting at?

Mellor

Cake Man wrote: »

I notice it mentioned that if trying to build muscle, it's best to go with an 8-12 rep range, whereas for strength it would be more 4-6 reps. I'm guessing this means going heavy on the 4-6 but maybe only 70-80% on the 8-12?

For the most part, but the difference between the two ranges is usually exaggerated.

8-12 rep range will be 70-80%. But that means 8 reps at 80%, and 12 reps at 70%. You won't get 12 reps across the entire range.

To put an example for context, my max squat at the moment is 90kg. I'd like to hit 100kg but struggling to eek out more than about 3 reps at 90kg but ultimately my goal is to build muscle. When doing squats, I'll warm up with some foam rolling & stretching, third world squats and maybe a few reps with the bar. Then do something like 60kgx10 (usually 2 sets), 70kgx8-10, 80kgx6-8 (usually 2 sets), 90kgx2-3, 70kgx6-8 to finish. Would people think this is effective/efficient? Would I be better off staying around the 70kg and ensuring I can nail 12reps for a few sets before moving up?

I think you are confusing % with kg. 70kg is more than 70%. 12 reps wouldn't be really be expected at this point.

Overall, it's a little disjointed. Out of those 4 weights, there's no clear working sets. It's more like lots of random high rep sets. I'm not surprised you aren't setting PR's by the time you get to the 90kg.

If you have done 3 reps at 90kg, your max is about 95kg, plugging that into Hanley's OP gives;

Wk1 67.5kg 5x8+
Wk2 72.5kg 5x6+
Wk3 75.0kg 5x5+
Wk4 80.0kg 5x4+
Wk5 85.0kg 5x3+
Wk6 90.0kg 5x2+

You'd be better off doing that over the next 6. You should be able to hit extra reps the 5th set each week.

I ask because I've recently read that to stimulate muscle growth, getting to or near to failure will achieve that so if that's the case - it wouldn't really matter what weight you're lifting at?

That's potentially true. But you said you goal was to get stronger, not bigger.

Cake Man

Cheers for your reply Mellor, much appreciated. Will definitely look into that routine you posted.
Sorry if it wasn't clear in my last post but when I said my goal was ultimately to build muscle, I meant get bigger. Stronger would be nice but getting bigger would appeal to me more. Do they both go hand in hand (to an extent)?
Basically what I was trying to establish is what should I go with to try get bigger? I know it obviously comes down to a calorie surplus but I'm talking about the training side of things. As mentioned previously, is it a case of higher reps at 70-80% - is this effectively what brings about hypertrophy? I think hypertrophy is the word I'm looking for!

Mellor

At this point I wouldn't worry about focusing on one of the other. They both go hand in hand.
Eat a calorie surplus, lift big weights, and you'll get bigger and stronger.
Maybe down the line you'll focus one specifically, but worry about that then. Right now, the main benefit is increasing that base level in each.

Plus the program in the OP has reps from 2 to 8+ in the main lift. And 8-12 in the accessory lifts. It covers both well

cloudatlas

I'm too weak and cannot do dips. Is there a replacement exercise?

Mellor

cloudatlas wrote: »

I'm too weak and cannot do dips. Is there a replacement exercise?

Assisted dip machine if availible, or work press-up progression until you are strong enough.

cloudatlas

Mellor wrote: »

Assisted dip machine if availible, or work press-up progression until you are strong enough.

Actually I think there is one just twigged what it's for, thanks.

Dtp1979

Right so a little info for anyone doing this program from scratch. I'd never squatted, deadlifted, overhead pressed before this program. I did a little bench pressing. Very little. It was tough doing this but manageable. Couldn't make it to the gym every day so it dragged out longer than it should've. Im Definatley stronger for sure so the program works.
Deadlift went from 170 up to 190. Hope to get 200 by Xmas.

Squat went from 85 up to 115. Hope to get 125/130 by Xmas.

OHP went up from 50 up to 55. Hope to get more by Xmas. It's hard!

Bench press went up from 75 to 85. I'd love to hit 90 by Xmas.
If I hit those numbers by Xmas I'll have used up all my newbie gains so then the real hard work will start in 2017
So thanks to Hanley and everyone else who helped out.

Blacktie.

You never deadlifted and started on 170. Damn man. Nice gains too btw.

Dtp1979

Blacktie. wrote: »

You never deadlifted and started on 170. Damn man. Nice gains too btw.

Just to clarify, I was using a trap bar for the lifts

jocmilt

Brian? wrote: »

Squat day, Deadlift day and Bench day?

Yeah, keep it simple. The main compound exercises only and keep the reps and sets low. If you train for more than 10 minutes more than three times a week you are not lifting heavy enough. I like chest and triceps/ upper back and biceps / shoulders and shrugs/ legs (inc dead lifts) - train each body part every 7-12 days depending on ability to repair

To build muscle
1. send signal to muscle to grow. This is by forcing it to total failure not by burning it with high reps until it becomes inflamed. Your ancient nervous system thinks you are fighting for your life so it will kick in and start to grow muscle tissue

2. allow it to grow. Give it food and rest so that it can synthesis the tissue de novo. This is why you give it a week or longer before you go back to it. When you exercise it again it stops the initial growth and you are not rested enough to go to full failure. You will start to 'overtrain' or fatigue your muscle.

This is contrary to all accepted training as preached in gyms all over the world. They don't want you training main muscle groups three times a week for only 10 mins a time. They want you in there several days a week.

Hanley

jocmilt wrote: »

Yeah, keep it simple. The main compound exercises only and keep the reps and sets low. If you train for more than 10 minutes more than three times a week you are not lifting heavy enough. I like chest and triceps/ upper back and biceps / shoulders and shrugs/ legs (inc dead lifts) - train each body part every 7-12 days depending on ability to repair

To build muscle
1. send signal to muscle to grow. This is by forcing it to total failure not by burning it with high reps until it becomes inflamed. Your ancient nervous system thinks you are fighting for your life so it will kick in and start to grow muscle tissue

2. allow it to grow. Give it food and rest so that it can synthesis the tissue de novo. This is why you give it a week or longer before you go back to it. When you exercise it again it stops the initial growth and you are not rested enough to go to full failure. You will start to 'overtrain' or fatigue your muscle.

This is contrary to all accepted training as preached in gyms all over the world. They don't want you training main muscle groups three times a week for only 10 mins a time. They want you in there several days a week.

To clarify, training anything more than 10 minutes, three times per week will lead to overtraining?

And you need 7-12 days to recover from those workouts?

That's certainly a controversial stance you're taking

Hanley

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Right so a little info for anyone doing this program from scratch. I'd never squatted, deadlifted, overhead pressed before this program. I did a little bench pressing. Very little. It was tough doing this but manageable. Couldn't make it to the gym every day so it dragged out longer than it should've. Im Definatley stronger for sure so the program works.
Deadlift went from 170 up to 190. Hope to get 200 by Xmas.

Squat went from 85 up to 115. Hope to get 125/130 by Xmas.

OHP went up from 50 up to 55. Hope to get more by Xmas. It's hard!

Bench press went up from 75 to 85. I'd love to hit 90 by Xmas.
If I hit those numbers by Xmas I'll have used up all my newbie gains so then the real hard work will start in 2017
So thanks to Hanley and everyone else who helped out.

serious result.

night made.

thank you.

Mellor

jocmilt wrote: »

Yeah, keep it simple. The main compound exercises only and keep the reps and sets low. If you train for more than 10 minutes more than three times a week you are not lifting heavy enough.

To build muscle
1. send signal to muscle to grow. This is by forcing it to total failure not by burning it with high reps until it becomes inflamed. Your ancient nervous system thinks you are fighting for your life so it will kick in and start to grow muscle tissue

2. allow it to grow. Give it food and rest so that it can synthesis the tissue de novo. This is why you give it a week or longer before you go back to it. When you exercise it again it stops the initial growth and you are not rested enough to go to full failure. You will start to 'overtrain' or fatigue your muscle.

Main compounds, heavy, with low reps - fair enough.
But any more than 10mins x3 and you aren't lifting heavy enough. That's a bit of an extreme claim imo. I'd imagine every elite lifter exceeds that. Are they not lifting heavy enough?

The "ancient nervous system" and a fight or flight response isn't related to muscle growth. If you were actually in a fight for your life, even the smallest muscle growth would be weeks after the fight. Fight or flight released cortisol probably isn't beneficial for muscle growth.

Rest is needed. Absolutely. But more than a week or else you are overtraining. Nope.
Overtraining is a specific condition that requires a massive amount of physical stress to achieve. Not something that happens automatically with less than a weeks training for a body part.

Also, a typical gym doesn't care how often you train. In fact they would love it if people prescribed to 3x10mins per week. As it would allow them to facilitate more members.

ThunbergsAreGo

cloudatlas wrote: »

I just did the first day of Hanley's plan as per the spreadsheet.
Do you decide what weights to do for the lunge etc., ?

I found the lunge difficult as the bar would move ever so slightly on the shoulders as my legs bounced forward and back up as I planted my feet.

What spreadsheet is this?

Hanley

naughtb4 wrote: »

What spreadsheet is this?

https://revolutionfitness.leadpages.co/2016-online-prg-dl-friends-lists/