The 11 "beautiful" girls on The Saturday Night Show Last Night.

One eyed Jack

Barely There wrote: »

Do you feel the same about underweight models?

Yes I do? What a strange question?

I have an issue with exploitation of human beings generally. I think most people do?

I probably answered your point there somewhere, I'm just not sure what point you were trying to make in asking the question?

Barely There

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes I do? What a strange question?

I have an issue with exploitation of human beings generally. I think most people do?

I probably answered your point there somewhere, I'm just not sure what point you were trying to make in asking the question?

Just asking a question.

You seem very exercised (no pun intended) about overweight models - but it's a very small part of the fashion industry, which in general seems to be populated with dangerously underweight young ladies.

It seems strange to be so focused on a tiny (again no pun intended) issue when there is a far larger one staring you right in the face.

H3llR4iser

AndreaCollins wrote: »

amazing stuff. some of those girls were hideous. you won't see fat male models but you see fat female models flaunting themselves. Crazy stuff.

This is the thing I find the most surprising of it all: While it is a constant banging the drum of "beauty is subjective", "beauty comes in all sizes" and on and on and on, the whole concept invariably seems to apply exclusively to women and nobody seems to take any notice of it.

Right now, taking a man and a woman carrying the same amount of excessive weight one will be defined a "pot-bellied lardy pig" and the other "curvy" or "real".

It is worth noting that the "unrealistic body image" issue is valid for men too, at least as much as it is for women; Probably, the whole concept has changed even more for men in the last 30 something years. Go watch movies from the '80s or even early '90s, and be amazed at how most male actors had no muscle tone whatsoever. Stallone in Rambo was a sensation at the time, but today he'd be no more impressive than your average Joey Bodybuilder at the local gym.

mariaalice

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Yes I do? What a strange question?

I have an issue with exploitation of human beings generally. I think most people do?

I probably answered your point there somewhere, I'm just not sure what point you were trying to make in asking the question?

Plus size modelling can be a very lucrative career they are not being exploited by anyone they are employed to sell clothes that's all, they are not there to promote any message about a healthy weight or anything else at the risk of repeating myself they are there to sell stuff and to sell stuff they need publicity. There is no campaign its a marketing tactic( not a very original one either )

I don't know where you get the idea they are poor deluded women who never get any attention, whose head were turned and were lured in to it by the thoughts of getting a professional hairdressers and make up artist to do them up.

One eyed Jack

Barely There wrote: »

Just asking a question.

You seem very exercised (no pun intended) about overweight models - but it's a very small part of the fashion industry, which in general seems to be populated with dangerously underweight young ladies.

It seems strange to be so focused on a tiny (again no pun intended) issue when there is a far larger one staring you right in the face.

Ahh right, sorry, genuine misunderstanding as I wasn't sure what you meant. I wasn't sure what you meant because this particular thread is about exploiting overweight women, not underweight women. My opinion would be the same regarding the exploitation of underweight women if that's what the thread was about, and I alluded to as much at the end of the post you quoted -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's a free market, so plus size models are unlikely to be banned, but their practices should be discouraged in the same way as high fashion houses and magazines are discouraged from exploiting women for profit.

Like I said - I generally have an issue with any human being being exploited, and that's all this 'plus size models' nonsense is, masquerading as the so-called answer to something women haven't called for.

I'm actually not getting too bent out of shape about the idea of their 'message' itself, as I don't think it's an idea that's really going to catch on. There just isn't any realistic demand there for their product, and so they'll go out of business soon enough, the same as Debenhams scrapped the idea, the same as Gok Wan scrapped the idea and is now reduced to advertising yoghurts that turn your insides out and make you feel like a new you... :pac:

dellas1979

I ponder....

The thing is, I wonder is the whole pic and campaign, is it saying, essentially, that for those who give up or who dont try to eat or exercise properly, to leave them alone (that its their choice and they should be able to live freely by choice, without taunts-and of course they should).

Of course, some incidents of being over weight are as a result of medication/treatment/out of a persons control.

But the back lash seems to be because it seems it is in those ladies control.

I feel (from the majority of posts) that posters think the ladies are lying. How could they feel good in their (bigger) bodies.

In my life time, I have at one stage been at least a stone over weight. Ok. Its one stone. But its still over weight. And I didnt like the feeling of being over weight. And I had to take responsibility to loose it. No magic cabbage water was going to make me loose it. I got to that weight by my own mouth and not exercising.

Thats where the message gets mixed for me (towards them). Because I feel (in a way) its them not taking responsibility or trying, or just giving up.

And I wonder if any of those women were offered a magic pill, that they could take in the evening and wake up in the morning skinny, how many of them would take it? None would if they were truely happy with their weight.

Im wondering if its normalising lack of responsibility.

One eyed Jack

mariaalice wrote: »

Plus size modelling can be a very lucrative career they are not being exploited by anyone they are employed to sell clothes that's all, they are not there to promote any message about a healthy weight or anything else at the risk of repeating myself they are there to sell stuff and to sell stuff they need publicity. There is no campaign its a marketing tactic( not a very original one either )

Any career can be a lucrative career, but one that is solely based on one's physical appearance is one of the reasons WHY it can be such a lucrative career, for the very lucky few that manage to maintain their weight above size 12 and below size 24.

We may agree to differ on what we see as exploitation, but holding women up in the public eye to be laughed at and ridiculed for getting their kit off certainly for me at least comes under the heading of exploitation for profit. Some of the posts in this thread alone I'm sure you can imagine the effect on these women were they to read them. You can say "sure they know they're going to be criticized?", but does that make it ok?

I don't know where you get the idea they are poor deluded women who never get any attention, whose head were turned and were lured in to it by the thoughts of getting a professional hairdressers and make up artist to do them up.

I get that idea from having talked to women and young girls of all shapes and sizes who enter modelling competitions on social media and elsewhere in the hope of being successful and having the lucrative career you speak of, and some of the lengths they're willing to go to, to achieve this sort of attention and validation from people, well, it really doesn't take a genius to work out that they're obviously not confident in either their intellectual ability nor their physical appearance, but it's easier in the short term for them to concentrate on achieving validation for their physical appearance, an illusion which is bolstered by people that see them as mere cash cows, a product, to be exploited and then discarded when they're no longer fit for purpose, and then what have these women fall back on?

Only a minority of them will have been studying or saving during their lucrative careers, the rest will end up with nothing and fade back into obscurity.

beks101

H3llR4iser wrote: »

This is the thing I find the most surprising of it all: While it is a constant banging the drum of "beauty is subjective", "beauty comes in all sizes" and on and on and on, the whole concept invariably seems to apply exclusively to women and nobody seems to take any notice of it.

Right now, taking a man and a woman carrying the same amount of excessive weight one will be defined a "pot-bellied lardy pig" and the other "curvy" or "real".

This is a very interesting point actually and did give me a moment's pause.

You're right, there is a strong rhetoric in society these days that 'forgives' a woman her extra pounds and encourages her to see herself as 'beautiful', 'curvy', 'voluptuous' regardless, in contrast to men, who seem to just have the option of being 'fat' with the same extra weight.

You'll hear that kind of sentiment in the everyday language used among men too. 'Go to the gym you fat b@stard' among a group of friends and they'll all laugh and slag one another right back. And it's at best an affectionate thing, at worst a neutral thing - not nearly loaded with the same judgement and meaning as if the same is said to a woman. Maybe that's the difference. He's just being called fat and it's a fact that he is. He's a fat man, but his character and masculinity is not called into question.

Reverse the genders...and it's almost as if you've failed as a woman. Any woman will tell you the sense of shame and devaluation you feel at being called fat is acute. I've held onto comments like that for decades and I've never even been overweight. It's been used as a weapon against me, a way to degrade, one of the worst possible insults I could receive. Because it's a judgement call. 'FAT' is the opposite of 'feminine' as it has been defined by western culture, by society, by magazines, television, movie stars, barbie dolls, etc etc etc.

And it's true that weight discrimination works both ways - of course it does - who enjoys being called fat? Who enjoys being mocked and cajoled about their weight and missing out on romantic opportunities, work opportunities, LIFE opportunities because of their weight? Both men and women experience that. BUT. The culture at large allows for much less deviation from aesthetic ideals for women that it does for men. We're defined on this sh1t. Our value as women is sold on this 'thin ideal' as early as our formative years and right through adolescence and into our adult lives.

It's more pronounced and it's less socially acceptable for us to be overweight, even by a couple of pounds, than it is for men. There's even studies done on this stuff, here's one by Yale - which found that women appear to be at risk for discrimination at far lower weights, relative to their size, than men.

Anecdotally this can be true too. I've heard fat men making fun of overweight women as if the men were just fine the way they were. Because they kind of were, they're just men who happen to be a bit fat.

And maybe that's why we're seeing this tidal wave of 'real women have curves' movements in recent years, which I 100% agree is completely counter-productive. Obesity should not be encouraged. Fat women should not be glorified and hailed as the very essence of what a 'real woman' is. BUT. Maybe they should be entitled to just be women who happen to be fat like men can be, instead of it entirely encapsulating and defining who they are and what they are worth.

One eyed Jack

beks101 wrote: »

And maybe that's why we're seeing this tidal wave of 'real women have curves' movements in recent years, which I 100% agree is completely counter-productive. Obesity should not be encouraged. Fat women should not be glorified and hailed as the very essence of what a 'real woman' is. BUT. Maybe they should be entitled to just be women who happen to be fat like men can be, instead of it entirely encapsulating and defining who they are and what they are worth.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I don't think being entitled to be fat will ever be an issue of gender equality, especially when women themselves are much harder on themselves and more competitive among themselves than men will ever be either as critical of women or even as critical of each other among themselves.

I mean, just look at the sheer volume of women's magazines that promote celebrity diets and so on, cosmetics and cosmetic surgery advertisements. I just don't think (and I may be taken outside and shot for this), but I just don't think men are made to feel as insecure as women with regard to their physical appearance (it's on the rise certainly, but it's nowhere near the same level yet).

I think men can be insecure and competitive in other ways alright, but women are defined absolutely by their physical appearance and their ability to maintain their physical appearance

I just think any sort of ideas that suggest they should be entitled to be seen as women who just happen to be, well, anything really other than what they feel is "physical perfection", just because men aren't so concerned with their physical appearance, I just don't know if that's an idea that's ever going to gain any traction tbh.

TheBeardedLady

beks101 wrote: »

This is a very interesting point actually and did give me a moment's pause.

You're right, there is a strong rhetoric in society these days that 'forgives' a woman her extra pounds and encourages her to see herself as 'beautiful', 'curvy', 'voluptuous' regardless, in contrast to men, who seem to just have the option of being 'fat' with the same extra weight.

You'll hear that kind of sentiment in the everyday language used among men too. 'Go to the gym you fat b@stard' among a group of friends and they'll all laugh and slag one another right back. And it's at best an affectionate thing, at worst a neutral thing - not nearly loaded with the same judgement and meaning as if the same is said to a woman. Maybe that's the difference. He's just being called fat and it's a fact that he is. He's a fat man, but his character and masculinity is not called into question.

Reverse the genders...and it's almost as if you've failed as a woman. Any woman will tell you the sense of shame and devaluation you feel at being called fat is acute. I've held onto comments like that for decades and I've never even been overweight. It's been used as a weapon against me, a way to degrade, one of the worst possible insults I could receive. Because it's a judgement call. 'FAT' is the opposite of 'feminine' as it has been defined by western culture, by society, by magazines, television, movie stars, barbie dolls, etc etc etc.

And it's true that weight discrimination works both ways - of course it does - who enjoys being called fat? Who enjoys being mocked and cajoled about their weight and missing out on romantic opportunities, work opportunities, LIFE opportunities because of their weight? Both men and women experience that. BUT. The culture at large allows for much less deviation from aesthetic ideals for women that it does for men. We're defined on this sh1t. Our value as women is sold on this 'thin ideal' as early as our formative years and right through adolescence and into our adult lives.

It's more pronounced and it's less socially acceptable for us to be overweight, even by a couple of pounds, than it is for men. There's even studies done on this stuff, here's one by Yale - which found that women appear to be at risk for discrimination at far lower weights, relative to their size, than men.

Anecdotally this can be true too. I've heard fat men making fun of overweight women as if the men were just fine the way they were. Because they kind of were, they're just men who happen to be a bit fat.

And maybe that's why we're seeing this tidal wave of 'real women have curves' movements in recent years, which I 100% agree is completely counter-productive. Obesity should not be encouraged. Fat women should not be glorified and hailed as the very essence of what a 'real woman' is. BUT. Maybe they should be entitled to just be women who happen to be fat like men can be, instead of it entirely encapsulating and defining who they are and what they are worth.

I'm wisdomed up to me eyeballs with your posts. Off me head on wisdom here.

Laois6556

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I'm wisdomed up to me eyeballs with your posts. Off me head on wisdom here.

Your next post is your 600th, you better use some of that wisdom you've been given, the last 599 haven't been up to scratch!

TheBeardedLady

Laois6556 wrote: »

Your next post is your 600th, you better use some of that wisdom you've been given, the last 599 haven't been up to scratch!

"It's better to be truthful and good...then to not"

beks101

beks101 wrote: »

This is a very interesting point actually and did give me a moment's pause.

You're right, there is a strong rhetoric in society these days that 'forgives' a woman her extra pounds and encourages her to see herself as 'beautiful', 'curvy', 'voluptuous' regardless, in contrast to men, who seem to just have the option of being 'fat' with the same extra weight.

You'll hear that kind of sentiment in the everyday language used among men too. 'Go to the gym you fat b@stard' among a group of friends and they'll all laugh and slag one another right back. And it's at best an affectionate thing, at worst a neutral thing - not nearly loaded with the same judgement and meaning as if the same is said to a woman. Maybe that's the difference. He's just being called fat and it's a fact that he is. He's a fat man, but his character and masculinity is not called into question.

Reverse the genders...and it's almost as if you've failed as a woman. Any woman will tell you the sense of shame and devaluation you feel at being called fat is acute. I've held onto comments like that for decades and I've never even been overweight. It's been used as a weapon against me, a way to degrade, one of the worst possible insults I could receive. Because it's a judgement call. 'FAT' is the opposite of 'feminine' as it has been defined by western culture, by society, by magazines, television, movie stars, barbie dolls, etc etc etc.

And it's true that weight discrimination works both ways - of course it does - who enjoys being called fat? Who enjoys being mocked and cajoled about their weight and missing out on romantic opportunities, work opportunities, LIFE opportunities because of their weight? Both men and women experience that. BUT. The culture at large allows for much less deviation from aesthetic ideals for women that it does for men. We're defined on this sh1t. Our value as women is sold on this 'thin ideal' as early as our formative years and right through adolescence and into our adult lives.

It's more pronounced and it's less socially acceptable for us to be overweight, even by a couple of pounds, than it is for men. There's even studies done on this stuff, here's one by Yale - which found that women appear to be at risk for discrimination at far lower weights, relative to their size, than men.

Anecdotally this can be true too. I've heard fat men making fun of overweight women as if the men were just fine the way they were. Because they kind of were, they're just men who happen to be a bit fat.

And maybe that's why we're seeing this tidal wave of 'real women have curves' movements in recent years, which I 100% agree is completely counter-productive. Obesity should not be encouraged. Fat women should not be glorified and hailed as the very essence of what a 'real woman' is. BUT. Maybe they should be entitled to just be women who happen to be fat like men can be, instead of it entirely encapsulating and defining who they are and what they are worth.

Ah but of course, women are sensitive flowers who are more affected by everything than us men who take everything in our stride.

I don't feel bad when walking down the street at any time of the day and someone gets right up in my face to say or shout "ALRIGHT BIG MAN!?", sure that's not challenging me in any way.
I'd love to know what this "social acceptance" idea you have comes from, or if it's purely from within you and you assume it applies to all women yet not to men.
That Yale study seems to be self-reported stuff. I don't put much weight in that.

Laois6556

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

"It's better to be truthful and good...then to not"

That's your 601st post and it stinks, you're lucky you used a better on for your 600th.

AndreaCollins

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah but of course, women are sensitive flowers who are more affected by everything than us men who take everything in our stride.

I don't feel bad when walking down the street at any time of the day and someone gets right up in my face to say or shout "ALRIGHT BIG MAN!?", sure that's not challenging me in any way.
I'd love to know what this "social acceptance" idea you have comes from, or if it's purely from within you and you assume it applies to all women yet not to men.
That Yale study seems to be self-reported stuff. I don't put much weight in that.

good post. the poor me attitude from women and failure to see it from the mens side is very poor. the "woe is me" from women on this subject is nauseating.

Wibbs

Barely There wrote: »

Do you feel the same about underweight models?

I would. Indeed health wise your rail thin Paris fashion week catwalk "model" surviving on champers and fags(and coke) and "purging" is way more unhealthy than your "plus size" woman, model or not. As for sex appeal? I like thin women, it's my personal preference(though not entirely immutable), but not that catwalk body type. To put it crudely, doing the wild thing with such would be like inserting a stick into the spokes of a spinning bicycle wheel.

beks101 wrote: »

This is a very interesting point actually and did give me a moment's pause.

You're right, there is a strong rhetoric in society these days that 'forgives' a woman her extra pounds and encourages her to see herself as 'beautiful', 'curvy', 'voluptuous' regardless, in contrast to men, who seem to just have the option of being 'fat' with the same extra weight.

You'll hear that kind of sentiment in the everyday language used among men too. 'Go to the gym you fat b@stard' among a group of friends and they'll all laugh and slag one another right back. And it's at best an affectionate thing, at worst a neutral thing - not nearly loaded with the same judgement and meaning as if the same is said to a woman. Maybe that's the difference. He's just being called fat and it's a fact that he is. He's a fat man, but his character and masculinity is not called into question.

Reverse the genders...and it's almost as if you've failed as a woman. Any woman will tell you the sense of shame and devaluation you feel at being called fat is acute. I've held onto comments like that for decades and I've never even been overweight. It's been used as a weapon against me, a way to degrade, one of the worst possible insults I could receive. Because it's a judgement call. 'FAT' is the opposite of 'feminine' as it has been defined by western culture, by society, by magazines, television, movie stars, barbie dolls, etc etc etc.

And it's true that weight discrimination works both ways - of course it does - who enjoys being called fat? Who enjoys being mocked and cajoled about their weight and missing out on romantic opportunities, work opportunities, LIFE opportunities because of their weight? Both men and women experience that. BUT. The culture at large allows for much less deviation from aesthetic ideals for women that it does for men. We're defined on this sh1t. Our value as women is sold on this 'thin ideal' as early as our formative years and right through adolescence and into our adult lives.

It's more pronounced and it's less socially acceptable for us to be overweight, even by a couple of pounds, than it is for men. There's even studies done on this stuff, here's one by Yale - which found that women appear to be at risk for discrimination at far lower weights, relative to their size, than men.

Anecdotally this can be true too. I've heard fat men making fun of overweight women as if the men were just fine the way they were. Because they kind of were, they're just men who happen to be a bit fat.

And maybe that's why we're seeing this tidal wave of 'real women have curves' movements in recent years, which I 100% agree is completely counter-productive. Obesity should not be encouraged. Fat women should not be glorified and hailed as the very essence of what a 'real woman' is. BUT. Maybe they should be entitled to just be women who happen to be fat like men can be, instead of it entirely encapsulating and defining who they are and what they are worth.

Fantastic post. I might quibble at the periphery of some points* B, but a fantastic post well in need of requoting. *bows*





*while podgy men usually escape the heavier end of societal pressure and women are prone to that guff at much lower levels of weight and weight gain, really fat men get a near constant level of disapproval, even abuse, oft couched in "banter". Just because it's banter and acceptable doesn't mean it's not damaging to the object of such banter. On top of that they are ignored, not seen as sexual, or as possible romantic partners and if they are it's almost a charity thang. As has been noted in the thread fat women have male admirers. EG say a woman who is a size 24 or more, yes she will feel the serious societal pressure and stress about her size, but she will find men and quite the number of men who will be into her physically. The equivalent bloke of "size 24"? For the majority it's game over on the dating scene.

One eyed Jack

Wibbs wrote: »

while podgy men usually escape the heavier end of societal pressure and women are prone to that guff at much lower levels of weight and weight gain, really fat men get a near constant level of disapproval, even abuse, oft couched in "banter". Just because it's banter and acceptable doesn't mean it's not damaging to the object of such banter. On top of that they are ignored, not seen as sexual, or as possible romantic partners and if they are it's almost a charity thang. As has been noted in the thread fat women have male admirers. EG say a woman who is a size 24 or more, yes she will feel the serious societal pressure and stress about her size, but she will find men and quite the number of men who will be into her physically. The equivalent bloke of "size 24"? For the majority it's game over on the dating scene.

You don't think the exact, and I mean, the exact same thing could be said with regard to women? I mean, what's the most common complaint among men when online dating -

"Damn photoshop, she was massive compared to her pictures!"

Women are an awful lot more forgiving I've found, if a man doesn't live up to her expectations. They'll get over the physical discrepancy a lot easier than a man will.


Even leaving aside the dating thing for a minute, imagine you're a size 22 woman, 5'3", you're out in the club, having a good time, you're minding your own business...

You'll probably be felt up at least ten times that night, or comments made about your physical appearance, you're not even looking for a man, and you have guys coming up to you telling you they wouldn't go near you.

Now imagine you're a size 42 man, 5'3", same situation, out in the club, having a good time, minding your own business, not even looking for a girl...

How many times have you been felt up, and how many women have come up to you telling you they wouldn't go near you?


Overweight women - societies free-for-all.

Overweight men? Not so much. Not even close in fairness.

Wibbs

I think that's exactly what I said OeJ. Maybe I wasn't clear in how I put it. No change there.

denhaagenite

I resent the term "plus size models" being used to refer to those girls. They are not "plus size", they are obese. I scanned through their Facebook pages and it's full of obese woman promoting, overly dyed hair and fake tan, and do not exude "I love my body", just "I'm normal". There's a pic of a woman who apparently competes in triathlons and is more than a size 20 for sure- fair play to that woman, she's clearly an anomaly. These girls are not.

For all the models and celebrity role models out there who live on a diet of cocaine and Marlboro light, there are plenty out there who see their appearance and weight as their full time job which requires full time maintenance. With their age come different modelling opportunities, or perhaps in fashion in general. Why should they be shamed for basically keeping up their end of a bargain with their employer, while girls like this are basically saying: "It's impossible for me not to be obese (and therefore you) so just give up".

Weight loss isn't a mystery. We don't have to starve ourselves to have a BMI of between 18 and 25, we just have to go for a walk everyday and not overeat. Before anyone jumps on the fact that BMI is not a catchall, I am well aware of this. I'm talking about men and women, who are not 6'7", not rugby players, not boxers, not bodybuilders. It doesn't even have anything to do with appearance. This is a health problem. Heart disease, diabetes, skin problems- the list goes on. In fact, bigger women will see results much quicker so therefore should be more motivated.

I do not condone shouting abuse at people walking down the street and don't think that they should be targeted in nightclubs etc. But equally obesity is not normal and we should not be normalising it. I once worked in an office with a woman who was morbidly obese, who would spend the whole day alternating between bullying and belittling me, analysing what I ate for lunch and constantly eating junk at her desk- all because Nicki Minaj told her that she was fine and I was a skinny b*tch (not that skinny, BMI 20/ 21, size 8/10 and 5'5"). She was so consumed by superficial things like appearance, much more than I have ever been- I would never judge anyone like that. If roles had been reversed and I had treated her that way I would have been sacked.

We all know what's normal and what's not but body confidence is not really as important as your health and your mental wellbeing. To make out like looking good in a dress (from a thinner or fatter person) is something I should be worrying about on a daily basis is frankly just insulting.

Barely There

Deleted User wrote: »

. I don't put much weight in that.

Unfortunate pun.

Shenshen

To maybe offer a slightly different perspective on this:

At the moment, the most common size in the UK is size 16 (and yes, on a 165cm person like me, that's morbidly obese). I couldn't find numbers for Ireland, but I suspect they won't be all that far off. Maybe 14.
These sizes are called plus.
So to claim that this is "not normal" would have to be more than a little tongue in cheek. It may not be healthy, it may not be attractive to some people, but it most certainly has become normal at this point.

The mainstream fashion industry still shows its creation on models in sizes 8 and under.
So the mainstream fashion industry is not catering to the majority of their potential customers.

The models in question - makeup and fake tan aside - are reflecting the most common shapes of the women who will want to buy the clothes.
So why would this decision by objectionable?
They're not role models, they're simply responding to an existing situation.

And to all the people who don't want there to be plus size models or plus size clothes as this might create negative role models - would you honestly prefer to see those ladies walk around in the nip? Really?

Penny Tration

Having bigger models is fine, imho, because it's nice for bigger women to see how clothing will look on their body shape, rather than on someone who is a size 6.

However, this 'real women' stuff is bull. Thin women are just as 'real' as bigger women.

In celebrating bigger bodies, these people are shaming thin women, and women who are taking care iof their figure.

I'm a size 14, so far from thin, and I hate the fat celebration movement that's become so prevalent.

Celebrate all women, not just fat women.

mariaalice

Well I am just irritated that people take a marketing and publicity campaign so seriously, and don't see if for what it is.. people are sheep, except me of course :P

denhaagenite

Shenshen wrote: »

At the moment, the most common size in the UK is size 16 (and yes, on a 165cm person like me, that's morbidly obese). I couldn't find numbers for Ireland, but I suspect they won't be all that far off. Maybe 14.
These sizes are called plus.
So to claim that this is "not normal" would have to be more than a little tongue in cheek. It may not be healthy, it may not be attractive to some people, but it most certainly has become normal at this point.

The mainstream fashion industry still shows its creation on models in sizes 8 and under.
So the mainstream fashion industry is not catering to the majority of their potential customers.

This is the average. When I talk about normalisation, I mean what we as society deem acceptable. 14/ 16 is plus size, but these women have gone well beyond that size. 20/22 is obese.

Shenshen

denhaagenite wrote: »

This is the average. When I talk about normalisation, I mean what we as society deem acceptable. 14/ 16 is plus size, but these women have gone well beyond that size. 20/22 is obese.

No, the average is actually lower. 16 is the most common size, not the average size.

And size 16 is obese, and depending on your height morbidly obese. It's my own size.

"Acceptable" and "normal" are two very different concepts.

denhaagenite

Shenshen wrote: »

No, the average is actually lower. 16 is the most common size, not the average size.

And size 16 is obese, and depending on your height morbidly obese. It's my own size.

"Acceptable" and "normal" are two very different concepts.

Ok, I'm not going to split hairs with you as I think my post was pretty clear, I'm generalising with respect to height here, as I don't think any of the girls are particularly tall enough to carry the weight that they have. Societal normalisation is when we as society normalise a certain state or behaviour within a certain context. In this case, obese women saying that society needs to accept them now because more people are obese than not instead of saying health is the most important thing.

Heikki

biko wrote: »

Didn't watch it.







Hope that helps.

Too busy on Boards.ie no doubt

Shenshen

denhaagenite wrote: »

In this case, obese women saying that society needs to accept them now because more people are obese than not instead of saying health is the most important thing.

I haven't seen the show, so I can't comment on what they did an didn't say.
But I believe someone on the first few pages pointed out that one of them had a gastric band fitted in order to lose weight. That does not sound like the action of a person who wants to remain the weight she is and wants to glamourise it, but like someone who fully realises the dangers and is willing to take actions and talk about it.

I do not think that there is any contradiction in demanding to be accepted no matter what weight you are rather than being slagged off and insulted on a daily basis because of it, and saying yes it is unhealthy and here's what I'm doing about it, maybe that'll give others an idea on how to tackle it themselves.

OldNotWIse

Barely There wrote: »

Just asking a question.

You seem very exercised (no pun intended) about overweight models - but it's a very small part of the fashion industry, which in general seems to be populated with dangerously underweight young ladies.

It seems strange to be so focused on a tiny (again no pun intended) issue when there is a far larger one staring you right in the face.

I think maybe the fact that the thread is about overweight models might have something to do with the focus on them, rather than the skinny ones.

Babooshka

Shenshen wrote: »

The mainstream fashion industry still shows its creation on models in sizes 8 and under.
So the mainstream fashion industry is not catering to the majority of their potential customers.

Mainstream fashion industry uses models well below a size 8 - they use models from size zero (an Irish size 4) up to a size 8 (an American size 4) but to remember that the women who are size 8's are about 6 feet tall and therefore look incredibly willowy, so I think definitely well below a size 8 would be more prevelant. Sharon Stone was once called "fat" by the fashion industry when she made a guest appearance on a catwalk runway for one of the designers some years back. Comparing even a normal size 8 woman (again, US size 4) to any fashion model makes even them look pudgy. I am a size 8 and not small in stature, but have curves - beside a fashion model I feel chubby because they basically have no body fat (as someone already mentioned, living off of fags, coke and champagne will do that) they are all angles and bone, perfect for being human coat hangers.

Back to the women on the B O'C show - I do find what the woman being interviewed on the show said something that I do think makes perfect sense, which was that her goal was to motivate the women by first and foremost taking pride in their appearance, getting out there and social and being a part of the world, in the hopes that this will continue motivating them to live a healthy lifestyle, therefore encouraging them to exercise, eat healthy and improve their entire lives on a holistic level...so she wasn't, as some people are suggesting in the thread, advocating an unhealthy lifestyle and "expecting" people to find fat people attractive, she is just working on their self esteem outwardly, her attitude is, why should they have to start by hiding themselves away at home before working on themselves when they can do it all at once...and in that sense, I think more power to them.