More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

K-9

It also seems paedophiles and abusers were told to go to England or down South. The parallels between the godfathers of the IRA and the Catholic Church are striking.

Dan_Solo

K-9 wrote: »

It also seems paedophiles and abusers were told to go to England or down South. The parallels between the godfathers of the IRA and the Catholic Church are striking.

"Seems"? Well that's enough proof for me! Hang 'em high!

Barely There

Poor Gerry's had his arse handed to him in the Dail this afternoon - he's in for many more grillings on this issue I reckon. His lick-spittle buddies beside him looked like they wanted the ground to open up and swallow them.

An opinion poll is currently being carried out with results to be presented in this weekend's newspapers. Will be interesting to see what damage the Shinners will have suffered.

Hopefully not enough to make them consider ditching the 'dear leader' - it's very important for civilised society that he be allowed to continue his fantastic work in ensuring SF remain forever unelectable.

Timberrrrrrrr

from her meeting today

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ma%C3%ADria-cahill-meets-compassionate-taoiseach-1.1972617

Speaking after their one-and-a-half-hour meeting, she reiterated her claim that she had discussed with Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams at a meeting her allegation that she was raped by an IRA member.
“I met him from 2000 right through to 2006. I mean, we weren’t discussing his teddybears, he knows exactly what we were discussing,” she added.

She said she told Mr Kenny perpetrators of child sexual abuse had been relocated to the Republic from Northern Ireland.

Ms Cahill told reporters she replied she would meet Ms McDonald when she was “prepared to say I’m telling the truth”.

maccored

What are you talking about? Were you watching a different Dail debate than I as?

Barely There wrote: »

Poor Gerry's had his arse handed to him in the Dail this afternoon - he's in for many more grillings on this issue I reckon. His lick-spittle buddies beside him looked like they wanted the ground to open up and swallow them.

K-9

Dan_Solo wrote: »

"Seems"? Well that's enough proof for me! Hang 'em high!

Thanks for the correction, we know they did. Have you not followed this story at all?

maccored

I think that last quote does Maria more harm than good. You dont meet to discuss issues with people on the prerequisite that they agree with you beforehand. lets not forget, no-one disputes the woman was abused and raped - so thats not what she is referrring to.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

from her meeting today

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ma%C3%ADria-cahill-meets-compassionate-taoiseach-1.1972617

Barely There

maccored wrote: »

What are you talking about? Were you watching a different Dail debate than I as?

No, but I wasn't wearing my Shinnerbot sunglasses which may explain some differences in perception..

Donnielighto

Dan_Solo wrote: »

"Seems"? Well that's enough proof for me! Hang 'em high!

What line would you like the authorities to take with the investigation? If the SF leadership don't request the IRA to release information they have on incidences then what?

The allegation of sexual abuse should not be easily dismissed imo. Also there is the reality that within communities it would/could have been dealt with internally due to possible/expected reaction from the community to involving the RUC at the time.

Kermit.de.frog

If this was any other party the leader would be LONG gone by now.

Disgraceful.

K-9

Adams never answered the Taoiseachs question:

http://www.highlandradio.com/2014/10/22/taoiseach-accuses-ira-of-moving-ni-sex-offenders-into-safe-houses-in-donegal/

Happyman42

Donnielighto wrote: »

What line would you like the authorities to take with the investigation? If the SF leadership don't request the IRA to release information they have on incidences then what?

How about arresting the people alleged to have done it, take them to court and with the help of the victim's evidence, get a conviction?
That's the easy and only way to get a fair and just outcome.

Donnielighto

Oh and for anyone thinking about these cases, there is the alleged options given to the two brothers who were abused when their uncle(?) was found guilty by the SF/IRA (organised by a local SF rep, presided over by IRA) court.

The guy would be shot, they would get a chance to do what they want with him or he would be exiled.

In this case they were giving the option of violence up to an including murder or relocation where he could do it again, a terrible choice to give someone. In cases like that there should have handed him over to the police.

Donnielighto

Happyman42 wrote: »

How about arresting the people alleged to have done it, take them to court and with the help of the victim's evidence, get a conviction?
That's the easy and only way to get a fair and just outcome.

Because it is a hard thing to get evidence in a case of this nature. Investigations of child abuse should be allowed to be carried out, what about letting a former member comb the records if there are any for information on the matter? I'm not really bothered by the politics of the issue, I dont think there are politics at the core of it, this is a justice issue. EK shouldnt gain but equally Cahill should have some closure.

Happyman42

Donnielighto wrote: »

Because it is a hard thing to get evidence in a case of this nature. Investigations of child abuse should be allowed to be carried out, what about letting a former member comb the records if there are any for information on the matter? I'm not really bothered by the politics of the issue, I dont think there are politics at the core of it, this is a justice issue. EK shouldnt gain but equally Cahill should have some closure.

You are aware that the alleged perpetrator and the men who allegedly carried out the interrogation where before the courts?

Donnielighto

maccored wrote: »

What are you talking about? Were you watching a different Dail debate than I as?

Hey not dealing with what you posted but could you write the comment after the quote, it helps with flow as currently the response is read before context is given. Leads to some being re read

Donnielighto

Happyman42 wrote: »

You are aware that the alleged perpetrator and the men who allegedly carried out the interrogation where before the courts?

You responded to a post where I asked about records on the matter being released to the case, as far as I know they weren't.

Them being before the courts without full evidence is pretty much the scenario I was responding to in the last post

Donnielighto

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

If this was any other party the leader would be LONG gone by now.

Disgraceful.

The problem is it is nearly (all?) rumours and the like. Of course the nature of the north at the time is that much of the justice system in nationalist areas and regarding nationalists would have been carried out by non governmental bodies within those communities. As such things dont have an official record to prove either way. It means that one side can claim "wheres the proof" while the other can claim "Cover up" and this leads us to plausible deniability where acts occurred and smears where they didnt as needed.

Timberrrrrrrr

Donnielighto wrote: »

The problem is it is nearly (all?) rumours and the like. Of course the nature of the north at the time is that much of the justice system in nationalist areas and regarding nationalists would have been carried out by non governmental bodies within those communities. As such things dont have an official record to prove either way. It means that one side can claim "wheres the proof" while the other can claim "Cover up" and this leads us to plausible deniability where acts occurred and smears where they didnt as needed.

Do you believe that Maíria Cahill has lied about being raped and that Gerry Adams talked to her about it?

Happyman42

Donnielighto wrote: »

You responded to a post where I asked about records on the matter being released to the case, as far as I know they weren't.

Them being before the courts without full evidence is pretty much the scenario I was responding to in the last post

What evidence pertinent to a rape would the IRA have?

Regarding the alleged interrogation, the IRA are quite clear that they won't be releasing any information about their activity unless it is part of a full truth and reconciliation process. Enda and Michael and the rest know this, are they calling for that process to begin? like you know, something that actually might help everybody who was a victim of the conflict to get closure? No they aren't, they are just politicising this girls ordeal to inflict some cheap political damage.
At the very least their advice to this girl should be, 'get back into a court and help convict the man who raped you, and we will assist you in every way we can to do that'.

oscarBravo

Happyman42 wrote: »

Regarding the alleged interrogation, the IRA are quite clear that they won't be releasing any information about their activity unless it is part of a full truth and reconciliation process.

And, of course, we all trust that the same honourable group of people who facilitated the transfer of child abusers out of the jurisdiction would be completely honest and forthcoming in such a process.

Does anyone not wearing green-tinted glasses truly believe this to be the case? Hell, does anyone at all truly believe it?

marienbad

Happyman42 wrote: »

How about arresting the people alleged to have done it, take them to court and with the help of the victim's evidence, get a conviction?
That's the easy and only way to get a fair and just outcome.

So why not use that option in the first place ?

Barely There

Happyman42 wrote: »

.
At the very least their advice to this girl should be, 'get back into a court and help convict the man who raped you, and we will assist you in every way we can to do that'.

We've moved on from this - You need to keep up.

Now we'd like answers to how many rapists and child molesters Gerry and friends relocated down to this jurisdiction and their whereabouts now.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

How about arresting the people alleged to have done it, take them to court and with the help of the victim's evidence, get a conviction?
That's the easy and only way to get a fair and just outcome.

So SF/IRA who covered up the allegation in the first place, and who gathered information as part of their "investigations" don't have to release records, don't have to provide witnesses, don't have to tell which safe houses they sent the abusers to?

This is getting worse.

whippet

For a man that is adamant he was never in the IRA; he seemed to be involved in a lot of what they were doing. I'm surprised at how a secretive organisation like the IRA allowed non-member play such active roles. Or maybe Gerry might not be telling us everything.

Donnielighto

Happyman42 wrote: »

What evidence pertinent to a rape would the IRA have?

Regarding the alleged interrogation, the IRA are quite clear that they won't be releasing any information about their activity unless it is part of a full truth and reconciliation process. Enda and Michael and the rest know this, are they calling for that process to begin? like you know, something that actually might help everybody who was a victim of the conflict to get closure? No they aren't, they are just politicising this girls ordeal to inflict some cheap political damage.
At the very least their advice to this girl should be, 'get back into a court and help convict the man who raped you, and we will assist you in every way we can to do that'.

Child abuse has zero to do republican goals and should not be used as a shield to protect them. How was Mairia Cahill a victim of the conflict, the IRA hardly sanctioned what she is alleging in fairness. Hold onto the info regarding the armed stuff if needs be but this cant be defended with that argument, can it?

The last bit I do agree with and is what I was asking for.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

What evidence pertinent to a rape would the IRA have?

Regarding the alleged interrogation, the IRA are quite clear that they won't be releasing any information about their activity unless it is part of a full truth and reconciliation process. Enda and Michael and the rest know this, are they calling for that process to begin? like you know, something that actually might help everybody who was a victim of the conflict to get closure? No they aren't, they are just politicising this girls ordeal to inflict some cheap political damage.
At the very least their advice to this girl should be, 'get back into a court and help convict the man who raped you, and we will assist you in every way we can to do that'.

Let us make this clear. By insisting that they will only release information in the context of a full truth and reconciliation process, the SF/IRA are co-operating in a process to ensure that sex abusers are let go free.

Donnielighto

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Do you believe that Maíria Cahill has lied about being raped and that Gerry Adams talked to her about it?

Did I say I do? However there isn't evidence of it and SF are closing ranks. Think you missed the whole point of my post, there are two sides and one side demonising the other isn't going to get them to cooperate at all.

Donnielighto

marienbad wrote: »

So why not use that option in the first place ?

Anything that happened after 1997 should have gone this way, would have been some justification for kangaroo courts before that but not after. Mind you child abuse should have been dealt with in regular court anyway.

sallymomo

Happyman42 wrote: »

And you know and I know and Enda knows that a full 'investigation' into the activities of the IRA (including kangaroo courts and what they did about community policing) will not happen, unless it is part of a full truth and reconciliation process. Is Enda going to call for that or put the proper pressure on the British and Unionists to take part? No he isn't. Everyone has questions for SF and the IRA but none for the other active and willing participants in the conflict.

Enda now says, 'SF need to provide information', how about Maria Cahill providing some tangible, verifiable information over and above unsubstantiated, in any way, allegations?

I don't see the relevance, bringing the British & the Unionists into a thread that is dealing with Gerry Adams, the IRA, Mairia Cahill and sex abuse?
The thread is titled "more crap on Adams" but as time is passing the message from SF HQ is gradually changing...rather than doing the usual SF deflection, how about you follow this saga impartially and see how it plays out? You might find that the great and glorious within Sinn Fein are indeed quite the opposite.