More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

K-9

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Which is precisely why you've taken Godge to task when he's brought up X, Y and Z that Fianna Fail have done and when others bring up X, Y and Z the Catholic church have done in the past and subsequently been caught out on.
Oh hang on, you didn't. My mistake.
Maybe your objectivity is down the back of the couch with those keys.

You seem personally upset over all of this, not making a whole lot of sense.

Dan_Solo

K-9 wrote: »

You seem personally upset over all of this, not making a whole lot of sense.

You appear to be incapable of understanding incredibly simple posts, pretty transparently when you're just not capable of addressing them in any way.
The even more simplified version: why don't you whine DEFLECTION!! when anybody not part of the SF smear brigade bring up something off topic like FF and the Catholic church.

josip

walshb wrote: »

I think Adams should go. He is bringing nothing but bad publicity to the party.

For this very reason, I am happy for Gerry to stay.
May he have a long life and leadership.

Creative Juices

"Speaking on her way into the meeting, Ms Cahill said she is vindicated by Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams' admission that the IRA internally investigated her rape allegations.

However, she said he needs to go further and admit she has told the truth all along.

Ms Cahill said it was disgusting that she was forced to relive her experiences by having to retell her story and it was a pity Mr Adams had not made the admission a week ago.

She said it was really regrettable that Sinn Féin TDs had backed up Mr Adams' account and she said they had shifted their positions over the past week.

She said Mr Adams had not admitted that she was put face-to-face with the man she says abused her."


I know who I believe.

K-9

Dan_Solo wrote: »

You appear to be incapable of understanding incredibly simple posts, pretty transparently when you're just not capable of addressing them in any way.
The even more simplified version: why don't you whine DEFLECTION!! when anybody not part of the SF smear brigade bring up something off topic like FF and the Catholic church.

SF held kangaroo courts on sexual abuse cases. I'm not sure what is that hard to understand why people are bothered about this.

I'd be wondering about myself if I was trying to dismiss them with jibes at political points or whataboutery. I mean these are sexual abuse cases. How low can people go?

walshb

K-9 wrote: »

SF held kangaroo courts on sexual abuse cases. I'm not sure what is that hard to understand why people are bothered about this.

SF held court or the IRA?

Timberrrrrrrr

walshb wrote: »

SF held court or the IRA?

Because there was a difference in those days

Godge

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Ah yes, FF did something once so SF must be doing the same. Awesome example.
The SF smear crusaders should really just get back under their rocks until they get something approaching a fact that's actually about SF to bring to the table.

Funnily enough, all through the 1980s, I was told I should shut up about Haughey until I had something approaching a provable fact.

You have just made the analogy even clearer.

Godge

K-9 wrote: »

SF held kangaroo courts on sexual abuse cases. I'm not sure what is that hard to understand why people are bothered about this.

walshb wrote: »

SF held court or the IRA?

This is what happens when we move away from the correct naming convention which is SF/IRA:D:D:D:D

Before anyone reports this, it is a post in jest.

Dan_Solo

Godge wrote: »

Funnily enough, all through the 1980s, I was told I should shut up about Haughey until I had something approaching a provable fact.

You have just made the analogy even clearer.

No, you have brought your latest logical fallacy beyond any ambiguity.

"Somebody lied once. Therefore you are a liar."
"Somebody is an idiot. Therefore you are an idiot."

By your laughable logic anybody accused of anything ever is guilty, 'cos sure just look at FF...

Dan_Solo

josip wrote: »

For this very reason, I am happy for Gerry to stay.
May he have a long life and leadership.

Which part of his own and his party's increasing popularity are you happy he is presiding over?
Big SF fan then.

maccored

why is the ira holding kangaroo courts such an amazing revelation almost 20 years later? plus what that got to do with adams or SF?

At the same time, Im not too bothered with this discussion any more as its the same bull**** being repeated time and time again. Im sure Godge is now going to state I think rape is bull****, or some other nonsense.

K-9 wrote: »

SF held kangaroo courts on sexual abuse cases. I'm not sure what is that hard to understand why people are bothered about this.

I'd be wondering about myself if I was trying to dismiss them with jibes at political points or whataboutery. I mean these are sexual abuse cases. How low can people go?

maccored

in the late 90s? yes, there was.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Because there was a difference in those days

Dan_Solo

maccored wrote: »

why is the ira holding kangaroo courts such an amazing revelation almost 20 years later? plus what that got to do with adams or SF?

At the same time, Im not too bothered with this discussion any more as its the same bull**** being repeated time and time again. Im sure Godge is now going to state I think rape is bull****, or some other nonsense.

Yeah, "these are sexual abuse cases" therefore Adams is guilty of anything I can magic up with zero factual evidence, because, ya know, it's a serious crime.
So stop using logic and asking for facts and just say you agree with me already.

K-9

walshb wrote: »

SF held court or the IRA?

Sorry, genuine mistake, though we all know both were connected at the time in question.

Godge wrote: »

Funnily enough, all through the 1980s, I was told I should shut up about Haughey until I had something approaching a provable fact.

You have just made the analogy even clearer.

I'm not going there again!

K-9

maccored wrote: »

why is the ira holding kangaroo courts such an amazing revelation almost 20 years later? plus what that got to do with adams or SF?

You think we should just go "ah sure we know we had IRA kangaroo courts into sexual abuse, nothing to see here, move on". That's like a scene out of police squad or Naked Gun!

Do you say that about all historic sexual abuse cases? Should all victims just move on or just ones that got paraded in front of IRA "courts".

At the same time, Im not too bothered with this discussion any more as its the same bull**** being repeated time and time again. Im sure Godge is now going to state I think rape is bull****, or some other nonsense.

Well, I don't have to twist anything. I'd suggest taking a moment and pondering how you come across. It seems the cause over rides any concern over sexual abuse cases.

There should be a full investigation into how SF/IRA handled sexual abuse cases in the past. Nothing less would be expected if this was the church or any other political party.

walshb

K-9 wrote: »

Sorry, genuine mistake, though we all know bother were connected at the time in question.



I'm not going there again!

Just checking. There seems to be so much information being put out about this case I am getting lost.

I can't recall a more serious issue for SF since the Robert McCartney murder!

Sierra Oscar

maccored wrote: »

why is the ira holding kangaroo courts such an amazing revelation almost 20 years later? plus what that got to do with adams or SF?

That revelation is not surprising. However it will be news to most people that SF/IRA investigated internal sexual abuse allegations and covered them up when senior IRA members were implicated. Also just to make matters worse, they facilitated the escape of those accused from Northern Ireland. Horrifying to think that despite what SF/IRA know these people - sexual abusers - might still be active in the community. A scandal of the highest proportions.

The Irish and British governments should intervene immediately to ensure that a service is setup to which those who experienced sexual abuse at the hands of members of paramilitary organisations, and were then forced to undergo hidden and secretive unjust investigations, are given the support that they need.

Godge

K-9 wrote: »

You think we should just go "ah sure we know we had IRA kangaroo courts into sexual abuse, nothing to see here, move on". That's like a scene out of police squad or Naked Gun!

Do you say that about all historic sexual abuse cases? Should all victims just move on or just ones that got paraded in front of IRA "courts".

There should be a full investigation into how SF/IRA handled sexual abuse cases in the past. Nothing less would be expected if this was the church or any other political party.

This is the absolute key point.

Nothing less was done when it was the church and we had it all exposed.

K-9

Godge wrote: »

This is the absolute key point.

Nothing less was done when it was the church and we had it all exposed.

Indeed, as per the SF and Mary Lou statement about the Catholic Church in 09:

Ms. McDonald described the State’s child protection services as a disgrace and said sadly the abuse of children continues today.

Indeed.

Happyman42

K-9 wrote: »

You think we should just go "ah sure we know we had IRA kangaroo courts into sexual abuse, nothing to see here, move on". That's like a scene out of police squad or Naked Gun!

Do you say that about all historic sexual abuse cases? Should all victims just move on or just ones that got paraded in front of IRA "courts".



Well, I don't have to twist anything. I'd suggest taking a moment and pondering how you come across. It seems the cause over rides any concern over sexual abuse cases.

There should be a full investigation into how SF/IRA handled sexual abuse cases in the past. Nothing less would be expected if this was the church or any other political party.

Godge wrote: »

This is the absolute key point.

Nothing less was done when it was the church and we had it all exposed.

And you know and I know and Enda knows that a full 'investigation' into the activities of the IRA (including kangaroo courts and what they did about community policing) will not happen, unless it is part of a full truth and reconciliation process. Is Enda going to call for that or put the proper pressure on the British and Unionists to take part? No he isn't. Everyone has questions for SF and the IRA but none for the other active and willing participants in the conflict.

Enda now says, 'SF need to provide information', how about Maria Cahill providing some tangible, verifiable information over and above unsubstantiated, in any way, allegations?

maccored

wasnt there plenty of time over the past few decades to raise that issue? why now? and why are SF being accused? did they run the IRA?

Facilitated escape? Mind explaining that one for me?

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

That revelation is not surprising. However it will be news to most people that SF/IRA investigated internal sexual abuse allegations and covered them up when senior IRA members were implicated. Also just to make matters worse, they facilitated the escape of those accused from Northern Ireland. Horrifying to think that despite what SF/IRA know these people - sexual abusers - might still be active in the community. A scandal of the highest proportions.

The Irish and British governments should intervene immediately to ensure that a service is setup to which those who experienced sexual abuse at the hands of members of paramilitary organisations, and were then forced to undergo hidden and secretive unjust investigations, are given the support that they need.

maccored

Indeed, as per SF have been calling for a truth commission for years to deal with all aspects of the conflict.

Indeed.

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed, as per the SF and Mary Lou statement about the Catholic Church in 09:



Indeed.

maccored

that seems to be the norm alright.

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Yeah, "these are sexual abuse cases" therefore Adams is guilty of anything I can magic up with zero factual evidence, because, ya know, it's a serious crime.
So stop using logic and asking for facts and just say you agree with me already.

Godge

Happyman42 wrote: »

And you know and I know and Enda knows that a full 'investigation' into the activities of the IRA (including kangaroo courts and what they did about community policing) will not happen, unless it is part of a full truth and reconciliation process. Is Enda going to call for that or put the proper pressure on the British and Unionists to take part? No he isn't. Everyone has questions for SF and the IRA but none for the other active and willing participants in the conflict.

The same old whataboutery. We won't own up to what we did until everybody else does. We can't wait for that. Gerry Adams has said the IRA let sex abusers go. Where are they now?

Happyman42 wrote: »

Enda now says, 'SF need to provide information', how about Maria Cahill providing some tangible, verifiable information over and above unsubstantiated, in any way, allegations?

It is not just Mairia Cahill. There is a second victim interviewed today. Gerry Adams has admitted there were IRA kangaroo courts that investigate sexual abuse by IRA members (but not Mairia Cahill's case) and that the perpetrators they let go are wandering the country drinking pints in Donegal and abusing children everywhere for all we know. The last bit about what they are doing is my speculation but what else would they be doing.

Of course nobody has told Pearse Doherty any of this yet.

Godge

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

That revelation is not surprising. However it will be news to most people that SF/IRA investigated internal sexual abuse allegations and covered them up when senior IRA members were implicated. Also just to make matters worse, they facilitated the escape of those accused from Northern Ireland. Horrifying to think that despite what SF/IRA know these people - sexual abusers - might still be active in the community. A scandal of the highest proportions.

The Irish and British governments should intervene immediately to ensure that a service is setup to which those who experienced sexual abuse at the hands of members of paramilitary organisations, and were then forced to undergo hidden and secretive unjust investigations, are given the support that they need.

Not just active in the community but SF/IRA may have facilitated these people abusing again. Think of Liam Adams and the various community jobs he got in SF-dominated localities. How many are out there?

For Reals

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

*edited by For Reals*
That revelation is not surprising. However it will be news to most people that SF/IRA the Catholic Church investigated internal sexual abuse allegations and covered them up when senior IRA Church members were implicated. Also just to make matters worse, they facilitated the escape of those accused from Northern Ireland. Horrifying to think that despite what SF/IRA the Catholic Church know these people - sexual abusers - might still be active in the community. A scandal of the highest proportions.

Just pointing out
We must stop Pope Francis now!!!!
Despot Kenny is loving the distraction.

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Irish and British governments should intervene immediately to ensure that a service is setup to which those who experienced sexual abuse at the hands of members of paramilitary organisations, and were then forced to undergo hidden and secretive unjust investigations, are given the support that they need.

Agreed, but they may seeing as it's investigating the 'RA and not themselves.

K-9

maccored wrote: »

wasnt there plenty of time over the past few decades to raise that issue? why now? and why are SF being accused? did they run the IRA?

Facilitated escape? Mind explaining that one for me?

As we get constantly reminded, and rightly so, N.I. was a broken society. Normal justice wasn't functioning for various reasons.

Many people who were paraded in front of IRA kangaroo courts were in fear of speaking out. We know that contrary to some IRA justice utopia some would have us believe, the IRA had rogue and extremely violent types, the McCartney case a perfect example.

seamus

K-9 wrote: »

You think we should just go "ah sure we know we had IRA kangaroo courts into sexual abuse, nothing to see here, move on". That's like a scene out of police squad or Naked Gun!

Do you say that about all historic sexual abuse cases? Should all victims just move on or just ones that got paraded in front of IRA "courts".

Indeed. It came out that the Catholic Church did exactly the same thing - held kangaroo courts where victims were intimidated and harrassed and made to feel like they were the criminals, after which their abusers were allowed go free and the abuses covered up. And people were foaming at the mouth about it, especially when it transpired that current church leaders had been involved in that cover-up.

This is relevant to Sinn Fein now because it appears that Adams (who is the leader of Sinn Fein, let's remember) may be implicated in this kind of behaviour.

It's funny to see people hopping about "allegations" and "prove it", when we already have the below key pieces of evidence:

1. The IRA carried out these Kangaroo courts - Adams confirmed this
2. By inference, Adams and SF knew this was happening
3. Again, by inference, Adams and SF allowed this to happen

So at this stage it's kind of irrelevant what evidence needs to be presented. Adams and the senior SF leadership needs to explain why they allowed these kangaroo courts to take place and why they allowed victims of abuse to be subject to this injustice.

Happyman42

Godge wrote: »

The same old whataboutery.[?QUOTE]
I could have sworn it was you going on about what happened with the Catholic Church? :rolleyes:

We won't own up to what we did until everybody else does.

Why does that suprise you?
It has been said often enough and it won't happen until everybody is at the table.



We can't wait for that. Gerry Adams has said the IRA let sex abusers go. Where are they now?

It is not just Mairia Cahill. There is a second victim interviewed today. .

Not a scintilla of back-up or verification behind that story either and interestingly not picked up by the other paper of record The Irish Times yet afaics. Always a clear indication that the Independent is making stuff up again.