More Crap on Adams, Mod Warning in OP.

Happyman42

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/louise-okeefe-wins-case-at-european-court-over-childhood-abuse-621010.html

http://symphysiotomyireland.com/survivors-of-symphysiotomy-say-draconian-government-scheme-flouts-un-recommendations/

Now this is 'actual evidence' of how morally upstanding your government is and has been on issues of abuse and facing up to it's responsibilities. I thought I would remind some of it on here ahead of Enda's meeting today. It will be interesting to see what Enda's priority will be, will it be the fact that a woman was raped and her attacker is still free or a disagreement about what was said at a meeting.

Happyman42

Phoebas wrote: »

It was bound to happen and there are now reports of another case of child sexual abuse by an IRA member and 'dealt with' by an IRA kangaroo court.

The perpetrator was given some choices about his punishment and opted to move to a different parish country.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/second-victim-breaks-silence-on-kangaroo-ira-courts-30683754.html

What's the problem with publishing copies of this correspondence the Sindo has seen with names redacted?

The Irish Independent has seen correspondence between the alleged sex abuse victim and Sinn Fein officials which corroborates his claims.

Phoebas

Happyman42 wrote: »

What's the problem with publishing copies of this correspondence the Sindo has seen with names redacted?

I dunno. They say they had sight of it, not that they have possession of it.
Who said it was problematic?

Creative Juices

Adams didn't sound very convincing on the radio last night. He really is a liability to SF and is bringing the ROI SF TDs down with him.

Dan_Solo

Phoebas wrote: »

I dunno. They say they had sight of it, not that they have possession of it.
Who said it was problematic?

So they found something on the street that assures everyone SF are bad.
Could they not even hint at what this "correspondence" was?

Happyman42

Phoebas wrote: »

I dunno. They say they had sight of it, not that they have possession of it.
Who said it was problematic?

The problem with it is, that it is just yet another allegation with nothing to back it up. A signal feature and failure of this whole media circus.

Dan_Solo

Creative Juices wrote: »

Adams didn't sound very convincing on the radio last night. He really is a liability to SF and is bringing the ROI SF TDs down with him.

We hear this every few seconds from people who would never vote SF anyway.
Funny how it hasn't stopped SF opinion poll rating rising...

Phoebas

Dan_Solo wrote: »

So they found something on the street that assures everyone SF are bad.
Could they not even hint at what this "correspondence" was?

They didnt say they found it on the street - where do you get your silly ideas from!

Dan_Solo

Phoebas wrote: »

They didnt say they found it on the street - where do you get your silly ideas from!

No, the didn't say where they got it or what it was at all.
Pretty much the point. Glad you've got it now.

Phoebas

Happyman42 wrote: »

The problem with it is, that it is just yet another allegation with nothing to back it up. A signal feature and failure of this whole media circus.

The allegation is apparently backed up by first person eye witness testimony (one of the abused people) and a journalist who saw corroberating correspondence.

That ain't nothing.

Happyman42

Phoebas wrote: »

The allegation is apparently backed up by first person eye witness testimony (one of the abused people) and a journalist who saw corroberating correspondence.

That ain't nothing.

It could all be made up, there isn't a scintilla of back-up in that article or any way to check and corroborate the the story. The Sindo would never do anything like that would they??? :rolleyes:

Sierra Oscar

ardle1 wrote: »

I find it bewildering in this day and age that so many people are still pretending not to understand the complexity and secrecy of the IRA.
And that in 2014 some people expect,that the greatest most intelligent non Government funded army! should just open its archives to every Tom Dick and Harry!!
Is a full cessation(since 1997)of military exercises plus decommissioning in 2005 not good enough for some of you?

If there is any possibility that paedophiles and sex abusers are still free and active in their communities then this needs to be investigated throughly. Those that were abused also deserve proper justice. No excuses, full disclosure by SF/IRA regarding what went on in the Kangaroo courts is necessary.

It is in SF's interest to do this too. Only then can a line be drawn under the past rather than letting the drip drip of information continue.

whippet

What I can't really understand is the reluctance for anyone in SF from the 'new guard' to even broach the issue of a leadership change.

I am not a SF supporter but I understand the gains they have made in recent times; more to do with the implosion of the other three main parties; however, it has to be a stunted growth in SF popularity.

With the main left party being decimated and the traditional centre / right at historically low popularity SF should be aiming for about 50% in the Polls .. but are still only getting to about 20%.

With the old guard in place and the likes of Adam, Ferris, Ellis etc .. SF will never be able to get over that bridge to become a genuine main force in irish politics. While we all know this surely the likes of McDonald and Doherty know this but seem reluctant to even consider a change at the top. Why is there still a grip on the power of SF by the IRA legacy ... surely SF and their supporters would say that the era is well gone and SF is a different party with a different focus .. but as long as the leadership is rooted in IRA politics they will reach their current plateau of popular support.

I suppose my question really is .. why is there a reluctance within SF to change from the old guard, would I be wrong in making an assumption that there is a historic hierarchy in play that isn't part of public persona of SF and really they are pulling the strings. Is there a fear that with the old guard gone the new faces of SF might see a benefit of clearer recollections of history than seems to be forthcoming?

Adam's uncomfortable twisting and turning this week is like a caractiure of himself and his tendency to have a distorted memory of the past.

Creative Juices

whippet wrote: »

What I can't really understand is the reluctance for anyone in SF from the 'new guard' to even broach the issue of a leadership change.

I am not a SF supporter but I understand the gains they have made in recent times; more to do with the implosion of the other three main parties; however, it has to be a stunted growth in SF popularity.

With the main left party being decimated and the traditional centre / right at historically low popularity SF should be aiming for about 50% in the Polls .. but are still only getting to about 20%.

With the old guard in place and the likes of Adam, Ferris, Ellis etc .. SF will never be able to get over that bridge to become a genuine main force in irish politics. While we all know this surely the likes of McDonald and Doherty know this but seem reluctant to even consider a change at the top. Why is there still a grip on the power of SF by the IRA legacy ... surely SF and their supporters would say that the era is well gone and SF is a different party with a different focus .. but as long as the leadership is rooted in IRA politics they will reach their current plateau of popular support.

I suppose my question really is .. why is there a reluctance within SF to change from the old guard, would I be wrong in making an assumption that there is a historic hierarchy in play that isn't part of public persona of SF and really they are pulling the strings. Is there a fear that with the old guard gone the new faces of SF might see a benefit of clearer recollections of history than seems to be forthcoming?

Adam's uncomfortable twisting and turning this week is like a caractiure of himself and his tendency to have a distorted memory of the past.

Excellent post. This puzzles me too.

Godge

porsche959 wrote: »

I wonder who this politician was (scratches head).

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/EX-POLITICIAN+UNFIT+FOR+TRIAL%3B+Child+sex+abuse+case+is+dropped.-a062274422

porsche959 wrote: »

I have been told by a retired senior civil servant (who is no fan of Sinn Fein, and that's putting it mildly) that the Ferns diocese scandal implicated people who were never prosecuted, including a well-connected barrister.

I was also told that a bishop was under active investigation by AGS, also never prosecuted.

And then there's the Dalkey House of Horrors case, allegedly implicating AGS members who I strongly doubt were SF members or even sympathisers.

***cough, splutter, whistles past graveyard***

porsche959 wrote: »

Well, maybe if M15 and similar were to open their archives then IRA could respond.

But if the former is not likely to happen, one can see reasons why the Provos might not wish to do so also.

One wonders why the forthcoming UK inquiry into institutional child abuse specifically excludes both Northern Ireland and Scotland.

Maybe it is not just the IRA that don't want the books being opened!

More whataboutery to deflect from the issue.

Does anyone bar the SF Justice spokesperson believe Gerry Adams?

petronius

Double Standards by Sinn Fein - they are vicious in their attacks on members of the catholic church for their handling of abuse, and yet adopt a different stance amongst its own members or supporters, and amongst its leadership.
If Cardinal Sean Brady had to step down - surely Gerry has to do the honourable thing and step down as well.

Godge

Today's Irish Independent article raises even more questions.

If what is asserted is correct, SF/IRA were running kangaroo courts in Louth in 2002 and letting sex abusers go free.

That is not "wartime Northern Ireland", that is not "ancient history"

The Brendan Smyth incident, which brought down a government happened in 1995!!


]

Sierra Oscar

Creative Juices wrote: »

Excellent post. This puzzles me too.

You need to ask yourself as to who really is in charge of SF. It's pretty clear that the old guard still controls power in the party. Anyone that has been involved in SF will know that you don't challenge the old guard.

They haven't gone away you know as the saying goes.

walshb

I think Adams should go. He is bringing nothing but bad publicity to the party.

Dan_Solo

Godge wrote: »

More whataboutery to deflect from the issue.

Does anyone bar the SF Justice spokesperson believe Gerry Adams?

Does it really matter who here believes Adams if his personal and party opinion polls are on the up and there isn't even a hint of a provable case being brought against him?
Lots of saying he's lying here. Zero proving it as usual.

Dan_Solo

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Anyone that has been involved in SF will know that you don't challenge the old guard.

As a matter of interest, what involvement do you have with SF that you know this yourself?

Dan_Solo

walshb wrote: »

I think Adams should go. He is bringing nothing but bad publicity to the party.

Since the sum total of what has been proven against him is zero, surrendering to a trial by media will just invite more of the same for whoever replaces him.
And since his and his party's popularity continue to rise despite the unsourceable Independent whisper campaign, not really any incentive there to step down either.

Godge

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Does it really matter who here believes Adams if his personal and party opinion polls are on the up and there isn't even a hint of a provable case being brought against him?
Lots of saying he's lying here. Zero proving it as usual.

Actually it does matter.

Charles Haughey had Fianna Fail at 47% in polls and elections. He was never convicted of fraud or corruption. His supporters weren't bothered or felt it didn't matter what was said about him.

There are sad echoes of that in the posts from the Dear Leader Gerry's acolytes and apologists.

MsBubbles

I completely agree with you whippet. Gerry Adams has become a liability for SF.

Timberrrrrrrr

I think Gerry is doing a great job and personally hope he stays as SF leader for the long foreseeable future.

Dan_Solo

Godge wrote: »

Actually it does matter.

Charles Haughey had Fianna Fail at 47% in polls and elections. He was never convicted of fraud or corruption. His supporters weren't bothered or felt it didn't matter what was said about him.

There are sad echoes of that in the posts from the Dear Leader Gerry's acolytes and apologists.

Ah yes, FF did something once so SF must be doing the same. Awesome example.
The SF smear crusaders should really just get back under their rocks until they get something approaching a fact that's actually about SF to bring to the table.

K-9

porsche959 wrote: »

I wonder who this politician was (scratches head).

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/EX-POLITICIAN+UNFIT+FOR+TRIAL%3B+Child+sex+abuse+case+is+dropped.-a062274422

No kangaroo courts for members, which is the main distinction here that Republican sympathisers are ignoring.

K-9

porsche959 wrote: »

I have been told by a retired senior civil servant (who is no fan of Sinn Fein, and that's putting it mildly) that the Ferns diocese scandal implicated people who were never prosecuted, including a well-connected barrister.

I was also told that a bishop was under active investigation by AGS, also never prosecuted.

And then there's the Dalkey House of Horrors case, allegedly implicating AGS members who I strongly doubt were SF members or even sympathisers.

***cough, splutter, whistles past graveyard***

What relevance has that to this case? We all know stuff went on, it seems like deflection.

Dan_Solo

K-9 wrote: »

No kangaroo courts for members, which is the main distinction here that Republican sympathisers are ignoring.

I have not one jot of interest in a 32 county Republic. Sorry about that. Care for another blind sling at labelling?

Dan_Solo

K-9 wrote: »

What relevance has that to this case? We all know stuff went on, it seems like deflection.

Which is precisely why you've taken Godge to task when he's brought up X, Y and Z that Fianna Fail have done and when others bring up X, Y and Z the Catholic church have done in the past and subsequently been caught out on.
Oh hang on, you didn't. My mistake.
Maybe your objectivity is down the back of the couch with those keys.