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Ireland's "Peaceful Protestors" - Pest Control?

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    #182
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    =Quin_Dub;92425946]Pretty much , yes - You can be an interested bystander, but you forfeit the right to complain or rabble-rouse when you are no longer resident



    Not what I said - All Governance is a necessary evil , not that those that govern are evil themselves , although some may be - No one wants to pay taxes , fill out paper-work for everything etc., but it has to be done...

    Why do we need to pay for water that was already paid for?

    Gettong the economy growing again , restoring business confidence , getting companies hiring again - Not enough of it , but moving in the right direction

    Nothing to do with FG.

    Thank the US and UK economies, emigration has brough down the unemployment and jobsbridge has masked the rest.
    Charging for Water , just like property tax is the correct reform of the tax base - Yes , we previously paid for water via direct income tax , just like we got money from property via Stamp duty.. but paying for a fixed asset from a variable income stream makes no sense... As the economy recovers , there's scope to lower income taxes whilst still retaining the funding for Water etc. giving the government a more stable income stream with which to work.

    so , yes , it's the correct option.

    So did we get a reduction in our other taxes due to us now paying directly for water?

    No, didnt think so.

    The only reason we are being charged for water is because its another revenue collection mechanism to continue to pay down the loans the country took to keep the bondholders and elite class party going.
    We do collect the Corporate taxes that we are supposed to under the current global laws - The reforms needed to stop that are outside direct Irish control (The double Irish etc.).. SF policies are violently anti-business , anti employment.. So they will never get my vote..

    We certainly dont collect the tax we should, we certainly get nowhere near the tax we claim we charge, and in recent days we have been found out on certain areas on how we support illegal business activity, just look at the EU pointing out the illegal activity between Ireland and Apple.


    There will always be someone for whom a new tax or charge is "the last straw" , that doesn't make it the wrong decision overall. Water charges make fundamental economic sense.. It's unfortunate that we delayed their introduction until now , just like property tax.. It's an awful time to be bringing it in, but it doesn't make it any less necessary

    Taxes should be paid by those who can afford them, hitting the same people over and over again simply is unfair.

    During this period of problems the rich have got richer the poor have got poorer, all thanks to government policy.
    Not even close to a viable alternative - Yes , we should have a 3rd rate of tax for those earning over 150k p/a , but that needs to come as part of an overall rebuild of the entire tax code.. ultimately, in my view we should end up with a situation where we have 3 bands in which everybody pays some tax. I don't agree with the fact that some people pay no income tax at all (whether they are low earners or high) , everybody needs to contribute.

    It was one suggestion on how we can raise taxes and income from other areas, other alternatives range from re loking at the deal we have with shell for extracting the gas in Mayo, yet another dodgy deal carried out by government.

    If I were to stand , it would be for self-serving reasons , just like everybody else that does..You wouldn't vote for me , just as I wouldn't vote for SF or PbP..so it's all swings and roundabouts...

    So your only in life for self service, thats a shame .
    It will ALWAYS be about choosing the path that hurts the least . searching for some Utopian ideal where the everybody loves everybody and the government are looking out for everybody is a fantasy...

    People just want fairness.
    Everybody will always be unhappy about something , the best you can hope for is that the things you are unhappy about are outweighed by the things that you are happy with.

    Fairness would lead to happiness for most.

    See my above comments - Yes , the timing sucks , but that doesn't make it any less right or necessary right now.

    Wrong, we simply don't need water charges. Lets not dress this up as some fancy investment into water infrastructure, its another revenue collection measure. Nothing more.


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    #183
    Anatom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Anatom


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    If your dog gives off massive amounts of brain-frying radiation (like water metres apparently), then yes!
    Water meters don't give off brain-frying radiation. Read up on it will you, before you post things that are completely inaccurate.

    FYI - a baby monitor gives off more radiation than a water meter. The meter doesn't give off anything until its "asked" for information by the IW meter reader once a month/quarter.


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    #184
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Anatom wrote: »
    Water meters don't give off brain-frying radiation. Read up on it will you, before you post things that are completely inaccurate.

    FYI - a baby monitor gives off more radiation than a water meter. The meter doesn't give off anything until its "asked" for information by the IW meter reader once a month/quarter.

    Your sarcasm detector is due a service I think.

    Hopefully its still in warranty!


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    #185
    Anatom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Anatom


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Your sarcasm detector is due a service I think.

    Hopefully its still in warranty!

    I'd better check that...!


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    #186
    wp_rathead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,069 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Anatom wrote: »
    Water meters don't give off brain-frying radiation. Read up on it will you, before you post things that are completely inaccurate.

    FYI - a baby monitor gives off more radiation than a water meter. The meter doesn't give off anything until its "asked" for information by the IW meter reader once a month/quarter.

    Read the thread- poster was referencing Irishfreeviews claims not there own


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    #187
    Anatom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭Anatom


    wprathead wrote: »
    Read the thread- poster was referencing Irishfreeviews claims not there own
    Yeah, I got that thanks - eventually..!!


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    #188
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Was just about to post about that, The ironyof the tracksuited gob****es having the gall to call the guards scumbags is just laughable.

    Anto is modelling that latest line in crumpled tracksuit avec tattoos a la mode, combined with oodles of saturated fat and finished off with stupid hair, green teeth and bad attitude.


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    #189
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why do we need to pay for water that was already paid for?

    Because the provision of water is a continuous process, as is the maintenance of the infrastructure. The ineeficient system of using local councils to administer water provision has been done away with for a more efficient system that is self funding.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    So did we get a reduction in our other taxes due to us now paying directly for water?

    No, didnt think so.

    Since this morning? No. It's usually done in the budget. If we don't get a tax decrease in this budget or the next I'll join you in your protests. But as the management of a national economy is not something done at speed, I'm going to give it a while to see the effects.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    The only reason we are being charged for water is because its another revenue collection mechanism to continue to pay down the loans the country took to keep the bondholders and elite class party going.

    The money for water will go back into the provision of water. It's one of the fairest and most transparent "taxes" we have. If more of our taxes, charges and bills were like this we'd be laughing.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    We certainly dont collect the tax we should, we certainly get nowhere near the tax we claim we charge, and in recent days we have been found out on certain areas on how we support illegal business activity, just look at the EU pointing out the illegal activity between Ireland and Apple.

    They didn't point out anything. They've launched an investigation without any actual evidence of wrong doing. They've said so themselves.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Taxes should be paid by those who can afford them, hitting the same people over and over again simply is unfair.

    During this period of problems the rich have got richer the poor have got poorer, all thanks to government policy.

    Taxes should be paid for by people who can afford them. But services should be given to people who deserve them. Most of the people appearing in the videos contribute nothing at all to Irish society. I don't think they should be metered at all, they should be just cut off. The sense of entitlement from them and others here is sickening. It's as if rich people owe you because they've done well in life and should be ashamed.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    It was one suggestion on how we can raise taxes and income from other areas, other alternatives range from re loking at the deal we have with shell for extracting the gas in Mayo, yet another dodgy deal carried out by government.

    It's too late for that now. The deal is done and we know better for the next time. It wasn't a "dodgy deal", it was a deal done by people inexperienced in that kind of negotiation.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    So your only in life for self service, thats a shame .

    Says the person advocating the rich pay for his water just because they are rich.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    People just want fairness.

    Fairness would lead to happiness for most.

    The people at these protests don't want fairness, they want it their way. They want a free ride. If the protests were held after regular working hours instead of during the afternoons I might be more inclined to believe they actually pay tax and should be listened to.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Wrong, we simply don't need water charges. Lets not dress this up as some fancy investment into water infrastructure, its another revenue collection measure. Nothing more.

    It's a sustainable system for providing water more efficiently and for encouraging water conservation and something that was required by the EU.


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    #190
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    There's intelligent bright left wing individuals in the world like David Harvey and Noam Chomsky and there's the contrarian pugnacious clowns like the ones in the video.Pretty Ironic how imitating and shouting "sieg heil" is a pretty astute representation of how some left wingers can almost come full circle and become in a sense, nazis. I say next time ,the Gardaí should bring water canons to disperse the cretins and perhaps cleanse them while there at it.


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    #191
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Because the provision of water is a continuous process, as is the maintenance of the infrastructure. The ineeficient system of using local councils to administer water provision has been done away with for a more efficient system that is self funding.



    Since this morning? No. It's usually done in the budget. If we don't get a tax decrease in this budget or the next I'll join you in your protests. But as the management of a national economy is not something done at speed, I'm going to give it a while to see the effects.



    The money for water will go back into the provision of water. It's one of the fairest and most transparent "taxes" we have. If more of our taxes, charges and bills were like this we'd be laughing.



    They didn't point out anything. They've launched an investigation without any actual evidence of wrong doing. They've said so themselves.



    Taxes should be paid for by people who can afford them. But services should be given to people who deserve them. Most of the people appearing in the videos contribute nothing at all to Irish society. I don't think they should be metered at all, they should be just cut off. The sense of entitlement from them and others here is sickening. It's as if rich people owe you because they've done well in life and should be ashamed.



    It's too late for that now. The deal is done and we know better for the next time. It wasn't a "dodgy deal", it was a deal done by people inexperienced in that kind of negotiation.



    Says the person advocating the rich pay for his water just because they are rich.



    The people at these protests don't want fairness, they want it their way. They want a free ride. If the protests were held after regular working hours instead of during the afternoons I might be more inclined to believe they actually pay tax and should be listened to.



    It's a sustainable system for providing water more efficiently and for encouraging water conservation and something that was required by the EU.

    water conservation?

    You do realise that should Irish Water not raise enough revenue because of water conservation they will raise the prices!

    Its not about water conservation, its about revenue.


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    #192
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    There's intelligent bright left wing individuals in the world like David Harvey and Noam Chomsky and there's the contrarian pugnacious clowns like the ones in the video.Pretty Ironic how imitating and shouting "sieg heil" is a pretty astute representation of how some left wingers can almost come full circle and become in a sense, nazis. I say next time ,the Gardaí should bring water canons to disperse the cretins and perhaps cleanse them while there at it.

    They were calling the Gardai Nazi`s.


    Please do try to understand what is going on!


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    #193
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    water conservation?

    You do realise that should Irish Water not raise enough revenue because of water conservation they will raise the prices!

    Its not about water conservation, its about revenue.

    It's about sustainability. Irish Water cannot run at a loss. But again, if they raise the prices to cover for poor cost control or inefficient spending I will join your protests. Until then I won't be kicking any cars like a scumbag.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    They were calling the Gardai Nazi`s.


    Please do try to understand what is going on!

    Yes, because not letting thugs attack workers is the same as sending jews to gas chambers.


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    #194
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    =Little CuChulainn;92430727]It's about sustainability. Irish Water cannot run at a loss. But again, if they raise the prices to cover for poor cost control or inefficient spending I will join your protests. Until then I won't be kicking any cars like a scumbag.

    Why cant it be run at a loss?

    Its state owned, of course it can be run at a loss. In fact considering the amount of work needed to the infrastructure Irish water should be running at a loss for many years.

    Yes, because not letting thugs attack workers is the same as sending jews to gas chambers.

    Its common for people to use the word Nazi against authoritarian figures whom are deemed to be attacking ordinary people and working outside the law. I fairly sure that anyone who uses the word Nazi isn't actually directing an idea that the person they call Nazi is somehow a Jew hater who wants to march them off to the Gas chambers!


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    #195
    Faolchu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    Gardaí should bring water canons to disperse the cretins .


    would thegardí be able to afford the bill afterward?


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    #196
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why cant it be run at a loss?

    Its state owned, of course it can be run at a loss. In fact considering the amount of work needed to the infrastructure Irish water should be running at a loss for many years.




    Its common for people to use the word Nazi against authoritarian figures whom are deemed to be attacking ordinary people and working outside the law. I fairly sure that anyone who uses the word Nazi isn't actually directing an idea that the person they call Nazi is somehow a Jew hater who wants to march them off to the Gas chambers!

    The only ones i saw attacking people and acting outside of the law were the tracksuited scumbags claiming to be protesters.


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    #197
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    If there is one thread that confirms for me that Boards is not representative of the public it's this.


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    #198
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why cant it be run at a loss?

    Its state owned, of course it can be run at a loss. In fact considering the amount of work needed to the infrastructure Irish water should be running at a loss for many years.

    It can't run at a loss because it has to be self funding and sustainable.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its common for people to use the word Nazi against authoritarian figures whom are deemed to be attacking ordinary people. I fairly sure that anyone who uses the word Nazi isn't actually directing an idea that the person they call Nazi is somehow a Jew hater who wants to march them off to the Gas chambers!

    I know it's common. They do it to try to put themselves on a par with the those who suffered under the nazi. Not only is it a disgusting trivialisation of the suffering of victims of the holocaust but it is a complete exaggeration of both their own issues and the response of the authorities.


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    #199
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    The only ones i saw attacking people and acting outside of the law were the tracksuited scumbags claiming to be protesters.

    Why are the Gardai standing behind barriers without safety gear?
    Why are the Gardai standing behind the barriers at all?
    Why are the Gardai pushing people away from public areas?
    Why are some Garda not wearing identification badges and numbers?
    Why are arrests being made without proper procedure? I.E you are bering arrested under section.....
    Why are the Gardai using irrelevant laws when telling people to move back?
    One Video I watched had a Garda telling the camera operator that she had no right to video under such a section. There were only 2 Gardai and 2 protesters.
    One Video shows a Garda informing member's of the public that he is not there to protect the public.
    Another video shows a Garda laughing at a protester when they request he take a complaint from them.


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    #200
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    If there is one thread that confirms for me that Boards is not representative of the public it's this.

    How so?


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    #201
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are the Gardai standing behind barriers without safety gear?

    Why not?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are the Gardai standing behind the barriers at all?

    To prevent people passing. I would think that was obvious.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are the Gardai pushing people away from public areas?

    Probably because they won't move of their own accord.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are some Garda not wearing identification badges and numbers?

    Ask them.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are arrests being made without proper procedure? I.E you are bering arrested under section.....

    Not generally required.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are the Gardai using irrelevant laws when telling people to move back?

    Like what?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    One Video I watched had a Garda telling the camera operator that she had no right to video under such a section. There were only 2 Gardai and 2 protesters.

    Link it.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    One Video shows a Garda informing member's of the public that he is not there to protect the public.

    Link it
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Another video shows a Garda laughing at a protester when they request he take a complaint from them.

    Link it.


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    #202
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,486 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are the Gardai standing behind barriers without safety gear?

    It's not required
    Why are the Gardai standing behind the barriers at all?

    Because of aforementioned scummers
    Why are the Gardai pushing people away from public areas?

    Because those people are trying to stop men from doing their work.
    Why are some Garda not wearing identification badges and numbers?

    They are wearing them
    Why are arrests being made without proper procedure? I.E you are bering arrested under section.....

    Evidence?
    Why are the Gardai using irrelevant laws when telling people to move back?

    Who are you to deem which laws are relevant?
    One Video I watched had a Garda telling the camera operator that she had no right to video under such a section. There were only 2 Gardai and 2 protesters.

    And i'm sure the video was edited nicely :rolleyes:
    One Video shows a Garda informing member's of the public that he is not there to protect the public.

    Oh boo fuking hoo :rolleyes:
    nother video shows a Garda laughing at a protester when they request he take a complaint from them.

    Yup because they are a ****ing joke worthy of being laughed at.


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    #203
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    How so?

    Because any commments I've seen in relation to the protesters on any other social network or in public have generally been in support of the protesters and definitely anti-water taxes.


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    #204
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why cant it be run at a loss?

    Its state owned, of course it can be run at a loss. In fact considering the amount of work needed to the infrastructure Irish water should be running at a loss for many years.

    And herein is encapsulated the Economic logic of the Irish Left...

    State funding comes from the magic fairy money tree... So of course it doesn't have to actually pay it's way!!!


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    #205
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Because any commments I've seen in relation to the protesters on any other social network or in public have generally been in support of the protesters and definitely anti-water taxes.

    Tends to be the case when you visit social media pages set up by anti whatever groups.

    I live in an area with over 1,000 houses. Not one person, genuinely, not one person, protested during their installation.


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    #206
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Why not?

    Health & Safety Law requires them to wear safety gear.

    To prevent people passing. I would think that was obvious.

    They would be complying with safety laws if they stood outside the barriers, this would also allow them to provide the same protection to Irish water workers.


    Probably because they won't move of their own accord.

    People have the legal right to stand in a public place. The Gardai have no legal powers to move people if they are breaking no laws.


    Ask them.

    I dont need to ask them to know this is illegal.


    Not generally required.

    Every arrest must be conducted within the law, if a Garda arrests you you must be notified why you are under arrest.


    Like what?

    Section 8 seems to be a favourite, this was used on occasion because someone was filming them.


    Link it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOoXqnJu5gU&list=FLb2HmzkJgti8Ukgm_N3wP4Q


    Link it

    Seen it a few days ago, but cant remember where now. But I will let you have this one. A defective truck of Irish water is reported to Gardai who refuse to act.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dYkrfjn4OM


    Link it.


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    #207
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Because any commments I've seen in relation to the protesters on any other social network or in public have generally been in support of the protesters and definitely anti-water taxes.

    Is Facebook any more representative?

    Ask the Facebook population how they would close the €12bn day-to-day government deficit...... virtual tumbleweeds.


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    #208
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    Tends to be the case when you visit social media pages set up by anti whatever groups.

    I live in an area with over a 1,000 houses. Not one person, genuinely, not one person, protested during their installation.

    I wouldn't visit their pages to be honest as it wouldn't interest me. I think of them as anti-solutionists, in that a lot of what they say doesn't have any bearing in the real world and tends to fall apart upon inspection. However the set up of this company is something that really "grinds my gears" to borrow an americanism.


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    #209
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Because any commments I've seen in relation to the protesters on any other social network or in public have generally been in support of the protesters and definitely anti-water taxes.

    I'd say that's more to do with the fact that people here are regular posters and longer term members of Boards, whereas the comments section of the Journal or some Facebook page will attract people looking to specifically post on the topic...and in the case of the Journal it attracts nutters...


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    #210
    sjb25
    Registered Users Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭sjb25


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    Because any commments I've seen in relation to the protesters on any other social network or in public have generally been in support of the protesters and definitely anti-water taxes.

    I'm not against being anti water tax but I am against being a scumbag blocking roads and calling guards and others scumbags for doing there jobs the guards should kick the sh1t out of them like most other police services would


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    #211
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why are the Gardai standing behind barriers without safety gear?
    Because they're Gardaí and entitled to be there in order to facilitate work protected by statute and the injunction of a high court judge.
    Why are the Gardai standing behind the barriers at all?
    Because otherwise the contractor will be continually harassed and have their property damaged, as evidenced above in this thread.
    Why are the Gardai pushing people away from public areas?
    They are loitering and disturbing legitimate public works. It's called a breach of the peace.
    Why are some Garda not wearing identification badges and numbers?
    Show us some evidence of this. If not, they're either in plainclotes who can produce ID upon request, or members of the public order unit who can produce a baton upon request.
    Why are arrests being made without proper procedure? I.E you are bering arrested under section.....
    This demonstrates a lack of understanding of proper procedure on your part. Gardaí are only required to give a broad explanation of the reason for arrest, there's no requirement to cite an Act.
    Why are the Gardai using irrelevant laws when telling people to move back?
    That's your opinion. But they're not irrelevant upon conviction, are they sonny boy?
    One Video I watched had a Garda telling the camera operator that she had no right to video under such a section. There were only 2 Gardai and 2 protesters.
    If you'd like to produce such a video instead of spuriously shiteing on we can all take a look. To be devil's advocate, I'd suggest that the filming began to amount to shoving it in his face as well as being one of many factors amounting to a public order offence -- and these people aren't unfamiliar with those.
    One Video shows a Garda informing member's of the public that he is not there to protect the public.
    That's fair enough, they are and they aren't. There's no Garda motto. They uphold the law, they're certainly not there to protect the louts and thugs you defend, the very subject of their enquiries.
    Another video shows a Garda laughing at a protester when they request he take a complaint from them.
    Oh! I am so sorry. Wanna hug? A lil huggywug? awwwhhh bless



    You're deluded.


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