The Official Ryder Cup 2014 Thread - No betting talk

Tobyglen

slave1 wrote: »

I'm watching some of the 4ball I missed Friday and Saturday morning and my word Poults hit some unbelievably poor shots, he killed Rory until towards the end of their round. I'm a big Poults fan but no part of his game has been there this year, McGinley would have been shot if he left him out and EUR lost so he had no choice really. I did feel for Poults, he was very fortunate with his halves and you could see the hesitation and nerve is his posture and swing, it was a tough RC watching him. He has not qualified since 2008 and I feel he needs to qualify to make the next one...

He didn't qualify in 2008. Dick Faldo gave him a wild card.
He qualified without a wildcard in 2010.

Get it right dude

Raisins

First Up wrote: »

I thought Clarke was hopeless on TV. Bland cliches - not a single insight.

It was cringeworthy the amount of sucking up Clarke was doing to McGinley on television all weekend. It was "Captain McGinley" this and "Captain McGinley" that, instead of calling him Paul like everyone else in the studio.

Does anyone know if the change in procedure to selection of the next captain being made by the 3 previous captains was in place before McGinley was chosen?

It's a bit of a shame considering they knew each other all the way back to the amateur days that they now deal only in pleasantries.

SSK

There was clear logic for McGinley picking five VC's. As per the last couple of Ryder Cups, he wanted a VC allocated to each Fourball/Foursome match on the course, as well as one (Smyth according to Shipnuck's article on Golf.com) to keep the four non-playing players in the loop and motivated.

The problem with a lot of Watson's decisions is that they defied logic which is why he is getting so much criticism, way more than McGinley would be getting had the US won IMO.

Ardillaun

cairny wrote: »

The putting comment is far worse though imho, he had missed a short putt the day before.

Overall, though, I think the US crowd gave Monty a harder time.

I'm not sure Darren is the right pick for captain. Like McGinley said (more or less), lets go through the process and see who makes it.

DeanAustin

SSK wrote: »

There was clear logic for McGinley picking five VC's. As per the last couple of Ryder Cups, he wanted a VC allocated to each Fourball/Foursome match on the course, as well as one (Smyth according to Shipnuck's article on Golf.com) to keep the four non-playing players in the loop and motivated.

The problem with a lot of Watson's decisions is that they defied logic which is why he is getting so much criticism, way more than McGinley would be getting had the US won IMO.

It's laughable that the four players sitting it out need a babysitter. Jesus wept.

cack_handed

Raisins wrote: »

It was cringeworthy the amount of sucking up Clarke was doing to McGinley on television all weekend. It was "Captain McGinley" this and "Captain McGinley" that, instead of calling him Paul like everyone else in the studio.

Does anyone know if the change in procedure to selection of the next captain being made by the 3 previous captains was in place before McGinley was chosen?

McGinley was chosen the old way, by committee vote. The new changes were only announced the end of last year, so McGinley, Monty & Olazabal will have a huge say in who goes forward for 2016. There will be two committee members involved too so it's not all on the ex-captains.

I guess Darren has no choice but to go on the charm offensive until selection day at least. Didnt Sir Nick do it for 2008, basically reconstructing himself as Mr Nice Guy, replete with generous Sunday Times column, until he got the nod and immediately reverted to the charmless old bollox he really is?

gotapaininmy

cack_handed wrote: »

I have to say poulter was a lock for the team, no question about it...you cant look at a ryder cup record like that and ignore it, it stares you right in the face and shouts PICK ME!! But there were too many doubts about his form to pair him with the rookie Gallacher on Friday morning and that's not hindsight - lots of people flagged that when the pairings were announced. And even when he was stinking the place out alongside McIlroy, it was odds on he'd come up with something a crazy chip in or a monster putt to save the day......that was a massive moment as it prevented the Americans from finishing the day 6-6. Typical Poulter really

I wouldnt give McGinley a lot of credit for the pick either, it was an easy one to make in my view. But he misused Poulter slightly so it maybe wasnt the perfect captaincy that people made it out to be, but it was good enough

That was a huge mistake McGinley made that's thankfully forgotten about now as it had no bearing on the result. I couldn't belive it when I saw the Poulter/Gallacher pairing. Stevie G was hard done by, he played like a hero in the Italian open and only missed out on automatic qualification because of a freak low round by David Howell and then with Poulter hacking it around beside him in his 1st Ryder Cup match in front of his own crowd I think it was all too much for him to bear. McGinley screwed him with that pairing and then based on that didn't play him again until the singles, he should have got a run in the Saturday morning fourballs (Poulter did). So as you said not the perfect captaincy as per all the soundbites afterward but good enough.

ArielAtom

McGinley stated why he paired Poulter/Gallagher on Friday morning, It was to get the home crowd going and to get Poulter to feed off them. It was a good decision before they went out, not so afterwards.

His Captaincy was excellent, his attention to detail was superb. He left no stone unturned. What is it with us that we always feel the need to find fault in our own. He won!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gotapaininmy

ArielAtom wrote: »

McGinley stated why he paired Poulter/Gallagher on Friday morning, It was to get the home crowd going and to get Poulter to feed off them. It was a good decision before they went out, not so afterwards.

His Captaincy was excellent, his attention to detail was superb. He left no stone unturned. What is it with us that we always feel the need to find fault in our own. He won!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes he won and I'm delighted he won, I'm biased because I played with Gallacher in a couple of pro-ams and he's an absolute gent and a super golfer, just thought he was unfairly handled.

cack_handed

ArielAtom wrote: »

What is it with us that we always feel the need to find fault in our own. He won!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fair enough, i know where you're coming from...but i can just never go with that old begrudgery canard, we have to be cheerleaders just because he's one of our own. And yes, he won!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and deserves a lot of credit for it which he has got, so no issue there. He took a risk on the Poulter-gallacher pairing, an unnecessary one if you ask me, but that's all it is, my opinion which is of limited value, but i would maintain it is my right to offer it without being labelled a begrudger

A.Partridge

PARlance wrote: »

Thank fcuk for all the adverts on Sky is all I can say... They were a welcome relief from the torture

Absolutely !

REMIX.....Rice Rice Baby....Mueller....oh yeah...:pac:

gotapaininmy

cack_handed wrote: »

McGinley was chosen the old way, by committee vote. The new changes were only announced the end of last year, so McGinley, Monty & Olazabal will have a huge say in who goes forward for 2016. There will be two committee members involved too so it's not all on the ex-captains.

I guess Darren has no choice but to go on the charm offensive until selection day at least. Didnt Sir Nick do it for 2008, basically reconstructing himself as Mr Nice Guy, replete with generous Sunday Times column, until he got the nod and immediately reverted to the charmless old bollox he really is?

Always baffled me about Faldo, he lobbied like a mofo to get the captaincy and then once he got it he made a mess of it.

Doesn't bode well for Clarke getting McGinleys backing does it? He was VC in 2010 and 2012 alongside McGinley and then Paul didn't ask him this time? He may get Monty's and José's though seeing as they picked him as VC on their turns. Do you know who the two committee members are?

ArielAtom

cack_handed wrote: »

Fair enough, i know where you're coming from...but i can just never go with that old begrudgery canard, we have to be cheerleaders just because he's one of our own. And yes, he won!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and deserves a lot of credit for it which he has got, so no issue there. He took a risk on the Poulter-gallacher pairing, an unnecessary one if you ask me, but that's all it is, my opinion which is of limited value, but i would maintain it is my right to offer it without being labelled a begrudger

My point is he knew Poulter was not in the best of form and took a calculated gamble knowing Poulters personality and his past performances while feeding off a partisan crowd in RC that he would respond. I don't think he deserves criticism for that.

cack_handed

gotapaininmy wrote: »

Always baffled me about Faldo, he lobbied like a mofo to get the captaincy and then once he got it he made a mess of it.

Doesn't bode well for Clarke getting McGinleys backing does it? He was VC in 2010 and 2012 alongside McGinley and then Paul didn't ask him this time? He may get Monty's and José's though seeing as they picked him as VC on their turns. Do you know who the two committee members are?

You're right - Faldo is a baffling man, baffling personality....i actually like him as commentator on the US coverage, very insightful at times but sums him up that he allowed sergio the high moral ground last week, a feat not easily achieved!

I'm not 100% but the CEO would be there for sure, George O Grady, and the other committe member would likely be a prominent player too, may yet to be appointed. Thing is, Monty could absent himself if he wanted to put his name forward for selection, so not a clear-cut process yet. And I think McGinley is such an honest, straight-up character that any personal differences with Clarke would be waivered if he deemed him the right man for the job

cack_handed

ArielAtom wrote: »

My point is he knew Poulter was not in the best of form and took a calculated gamble knowing Poulters personality and his past performances while feeding off a partisan crowd in RC that he would respond. I don't think he deserves criticism for that.

Fair enough, I think we can agree to disagree on this. I dont even think its criticism...maybe mild censure at worst. No captain will ever go through a ryder cup without getting one or two things wrong, so i'd was never suggesting mcginley should be hanged for it. He was up against a rival who made a whole catalogue of errors, so you could make a case for suggesting the captain who makes the least amount of mistakes will likely win...

Ok, i know that last bit sounds way too negative...so i'll quit now while i'm behind

gotapaininmy

cack_handed wrote: »

You're right - Faldo is a baffling man, baffling personality....i actually like him as commentator on the US coverage, very insightful at times but sums him up that he allowed sergio the high moral ground last week, a feat not easily achieved!

:D

gotapaininmy

I'm not 100% but the CEO would be there for sure, George O Grady, and the other committe member would likely be a prominent player too, may yet to be appointed. Thing is, Monty could absent himself if he wanted to put his name forward for selection, so not a clear-cut process yet. And I think McGinley is such an honest, straight-up character that any personal differences with Clarke would be waivered if he deemed him the right man for the job[/QUOTE]

:eek: Monty's not going for it again is he? These guys with their egos, Monty should quit while he's ahead, he's a winning captain, leave it at that but then I suppose he'd love to have one up on all his peers by doing it twice. At least it would mean he wouldn't be on the commentary team.

rrpc

DeanAustin wrote: »

It's laughable that the four players sitting it out need a babysitter. Jesus wept.

But they weren't sitting it out. GMac and Dubuisson followed the fourballs around for a few holes in foursomes configuration and apparently the other benched players practiced together behind the fourballs or foursomes.

cack_handed

gotapaininmy wrote: »

I'm not 100% but the CEO would be there for sure, George O Grady, and the other committe member would likely be a prominent player too, may yet to be appointed. Thing is, Monty could absent himself if he wanted to put his name forward for selection, so not a clear-cut process yet. And I think McGinley is such an honest, straight-up character that any personal differences with Clarke would be waivered if he deemed him the right man for the job

:eek: Monty's not going for it again is he? These guys with their egos, Monty should quit while he's ahead, he's a winning captain, leave it at that but then I suppose he'd love to have one up on all his peers by doing it twice. At least it would mean he wouldn't be on the commentary team.[/QUOTE]

Well that would be a nice upside alright lol

But probably not anyway...i just floated it to scare people! Then again i'd be fairly certain he'd have his eye on getting a second go so you'd never know...probably more likely in 2018 as it would be on home turf this time

cack_handed

Actually screw that...monty already won celtic manor didnt he....so he'd probably fancy an away victory next time! Whatever, its so unlikely am going to quit tying myself in knots about it

SnowDrifts

gotapaininmy wrote: »

That was a huge mistake McGinley made that's thankfully forgotten about now as it had no bearing on the result. I couldn't belive it when I saw the Poulter/Gallacher pairing. Stevie G was hard done by, he played like a hero in the Italian open and only missed out on automatic qualification because of a freak low round by David Howell and then with Poulter hacking it around beside him in his 1st Ryder Cup match in front of his own crowd I think it was all too much for him to bear. McGinley screwed him with that pairing and then based on that didn't play him again until the singles, he should have got a run in the Saturday morning fourballs (Poulter did). So as you said not the perfect captaincy as per all the soundbites afterward but good enough.

As a previous poster said, McGinley gave valid reasons for the pairing. And Gallacher hard done by? Come on... at the end of the day it was fourball and Gallacher did a perfectly good job of hacking it around himself, maybe not to the same extent as Poulter but not far off.

And Gallacher's form at the Wales Open the week prior.... a missed cut with 6 over. Finally... as previously posted on here, Gallacher's team event record prior to the Ryder Cup was nothing short of abysmal so pairing him with someone who had an extremely good record combined with the hope that they would both feed off the crowd's support was good reasoning for the pairing.

SSK

A few interesting points made in this article on McGinley's captaincy in this in depth article and further issues about Watson's captaincy raised. It really isn't difficult to imagine a situation where if the captaincy's were swapped that the US would have taken home the trophy.

DeanAustin

rrpc wrote: »

But they weren't sitting it out. GMac and Dubuisson followed the fourballs around for a few holes in foursomes configuration and apparently the other benched players practiced together behind the fourballs or foursomes.

And they needed a minder for that?

gotapaininmy

SnowDrifts wrote: »

As a previous poster said, McGinley gave valid reasons for the pairing. And Gallacher hard done by? Come on... at the end of the day it was fourball and Gallacher did a perfectly good job of hacking it around himself, maybe not to the same extent as Poulter but not far off.

And Gallacher's form at the Wales Open the week prior.... a missed cut with 6 over. Finally... as previously posted on here, Gallacher's team event record prior to the Ryder Cup was nothing short of abysmal so pairing him with someone who had an extremely good record combined with the hope that they would both feed off the crowd's support was good reasoning for the pairing.

He did play rubbish Friday morning, not as bad as Poulter as you said, but rubbish none the less. His singles match play record is terrible yes but his fourball/foursomes record while not brilliant isn't abysmal. It just seems like flawed thinking to me that you put an out of form player (Poulter) with a rookie in the hope that an intangible like crowd support can make both of them play better. Surely you put the rookie out with one of your experienced guys who you know is playing well? Anyway it's all post-mortem stuff now and like I said before, I'm biased because I happen to have played with Gallacher before.

Keano

We are nearly at 2000 posts and all that we are talking about is why 4 players needs to be looked after and why the captain picked Gallacher and Poulter? We really cannot celebrate a victory anymore

gotapaininmy

Keano A Legend wrote: »

We are nearly at 2000 posts and all that we are talking about is why 4 players needs to be looked after and why the captain picked Gallacher and Poulter? We really cannot celebrate a victory anymore

But sher if it was all postive stuff the thread would have finished 1900 posts ago:D

gotapaininmy

gotapaininmy wrote: »

But sher if it was all postive stuff the thread would have finished 1900 posts ago:D

On the positive side, it was great to see Rory emerge as a leader of the team I think, particulary with they way he steam-rolled Fowler in the singles. Jamie Donaldson was a revelation I think for a guy of his age playing in his first Ryder Cup and Dubuisson looks like he could be the guy to get French people excited about the Ryder Cup when it goes there in 4 years time.

cack_handed

Keano A Legend wrote: »

We are nearly at 2000 posts and all that we are talking about is why 4 players needs to be looked after and why the captain picked Gallacher and Poulter? We really cannot celebrate a victory anymore

Yep we should have been non-stop partying since sunday evening..lashing down the champagne. I'm sure the legend keano would approve, he always loved a party

A.Partridge

SSK wrote: »

A few interesting points made in this article on McGinley's captaincy in this in depth article and further issues about Watson's captaincy raised. It really isn't difficult to imagine a situation where if the captaincy's were swapped that the US would have taken home the trophy.

Yes, a great article. Particularly this bit...


It was only the latest in a series of perplexing decisions by Watson that almost seemed designed to handicap his team. It began the day before he made his captain's picks, when, as the Golf Channel's Jason Sobel reported, he told those close to the process that his final pick was a player other than Webb Simpson (Sobel didn't name the third player). Early the next morning -- as in, 4:30 am early -- Webb Simpson texted Watson in a desperate last minute campaign to earn a place on the team. Watson texted back, and then the two spoke on the phone. Simpson sold himself, and it worked -- Watson changed his mind, Simpson made the team, and the previous pick was out. The impulse decision (this week, Watson has endlessly referred to making decisions with his "gut") backfired almost immediately, when Simpson went out in the Ryder Cup's first match with Bubba Watson -- a move that was hard not to read as the captain trying to justify his pick immediately -- and imploded. He didn't make a single birdie, and things got so bad that he began taking five or six practice swings before every shot. Bubba did his best, but Justin Rose and Henrik Stenson blew them out, 5&4. After Simpson's miserable performance, there was no question of playing him again before Sunday.

gotapaininmy

A.Partridge wrote: »

Yes, a great article. Particularly this bit...


It was only the latest in a series of perplexing decisions by Watson that almost seemed designed to handicap his team. It began the day before he made his captain's picks, when, as the Golf Channel's Jason Sobel reported, he told those close to the process that his final pick was a player other than Webb Simpson (Sobel didn't name the third player). Early the next morning -- as in, 4:30 am early -- Webb Simpson texted Watson in a desperate last minute campaign to earn a place on the team. Watson texted back, and then the two spoke on the phone. Simpson sold himself, and it worked -- Watson changed his mind, Simpson made the team, and the previous pick was out. The impulse decision (this week, Watson has endlessly referred to making decisions with his "gut") backfired almost immediately, when Simpson went out in the Ryder Cup's first match with Bubba Watson -- a move that was hard not to read as the captain trying to justify his pick immediately -- and imploded. He didn't make a single birdie, and things got so bad that he began taking five or six practice swings before every shot. Bubba did his best, but Justin Rose and Henrik Stenson blew them out, 5&4. After Simpson's miserable performance, there was no question of playing him again before Sunday.

I ddin't know that, what a way to pick a team?!?? Simpson was brutal, God must not have listened to his prayers.