The Official Ryder Cup 2014 Thread - No betting talk

TrapperChamonix

gotapaininmy wrote: »

Maybe something the US can learn from the Ryder Cup is that they need continuity in their vice captains to Captains so they can learn from past mistakes. None of Watsons management team had been involved as vice-captains or captains in the last few Ryder Cups, compare that to McGinleys backroom where thay all had.

Ray Floyd was a VC in the last US winning team, Phil referenced him as a leader of his POD.

gotapaininmy

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Ray Floyd was a VC in the last US winning team, Phil referenced him as a leader of his POD.

you're right there, stand corrected.

but Andy North??

alxmorgan

It's being reported that Phil flew over separately for personal reasons. The assumption is that it was family related.

gotapaininmy

alxmorgan wrote: »

It's being reported that Phil flew over separately for personal reasons. The assumption is that it was family related.

but apparently he was in Scotland before the team? Does Phil have Scottish family we don't know about? Sounds like a stock excuse to me.

ArmaniJeanss

gotapaininmy wrote: »

but apparently he was in Scotland before the team? Does Phil have Scottish family we don't know about?

He doesn't have to have family in Scotland for this to be true.
Perhaps the team flew from Chicago to Scotland, and the previous day for family reasons Phil was in NY or Boston or Baltimore. It would make no sense for him to go backwards to Chicago.

cack_handed

As much as it might be a personal issue, Phil ought really to clear up the private jet issue as much as he can. As much as I like and respect Tom Watson, I still agreed with a lot of what Phil said but, rightly or wrongly, the separate flight thing is eroding much of his credibility

Also, not sure whether it has been brought up here, but I'd love to see the Americans explain why they didn't turn up in Gleneagles when Watson tried to gather them there in July. I've read only two turned up, not including Phil..what kind of signal does that generate? Remember Tom Lehman bringing his whole team to the K Club, Tiger and all, before the 2006 Cup. Didn't help them win, of course, but they at least looked like a together side

flanzer

gotapaininmy wrote: »

I agree that in the "Home of Golf" it should have been played on a links, we made the same mistake with the K-Club, should have been played on a links here too. Smurfit basically bought the Ryder Cup with his sponsorship of the European Open there for a few years in the run up, I imagine something similar happened with Gleneagles. I'm not sure about Turnberry or Trump but Carnoustie wouldn't have been a good venue in my mind. Played it back in April for an exorbitant 140 sterling (having bargained down from 200!) and there's one hole I'll remember in five years time, the 18th and that's mostly down to Harrington and Van De Veldes shenanigans on that hole. Lahinch, Ballybunion, Carne and several others in Ireland are far better links courses than Carnoustie (bit off topic I know - apologies, I was just disappointed with Carnoustie!)

The European Tour were pushing for Old Portmarnock before the K Club stepped in 2006 with a whole heap more of cash and sponsorship. The membership out in Portmarnock weren't arsed and didn't need the money or disruption so didn't put in too much of an effort to get it

It was seen as the ideal location in a capital city and close to an airport

Slicemeister

Why the hell was he so vocal this week? Between the Rory/ gmac comments and the news conference it's like something straight out of Saipan.

Goes to show how soft and prima Donna modern day sportsmen have become. Sure Watson had his own hard line MO and if Lefty wasn't part of this(foursomes) plan, tough shut.
I reckon he knows it's his last RC.

gotapaininmy

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

He doesn't have to have family in Scotland for this to be true.
Perhaps the team flew from Chicago to Scotland, and the previous day for family reasons Phil was in NY or Boston or Baltimore. It would make no sense for him to go backwards to Chicago.

yeah I know, I was being facetious.

TrapperChamonix

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

He doesn't have to have family in Scotland for this to be true.
Perhaps the team flew from Chicago to Scotland, and the previous day for family reasons Phil was in NY or Boston or Baltimore. It would make no sense for him to go backwards to Chicago.

What I read (can't remember where) was that he had commercial comittment in UK the day before the team arrived and also one after. I'm much less certain of that than anything else I've said.

First Up

flanzer wrote: »

The European Tour were pushing for Old Portmarnock before the K Club stepped in 2006 with a whole heap more of cash and sponsorship. The membership out in Portmarnock weren't arsed and didn't need the money or disruption so didn't put in too much of an effort to get it

It was seen as the ideal location in a capital city and close to an airport

"Ideal" is pushing it, but certainly the best (or only) option. But a stadium course it ain't and the amount of construction that would be needed would close the place for months. If the European Tour really wanted it there, it could have happened but I can understand the members' point of view.

cack_handed

First Up wrote: »

"Ideal" is pushing it, but certainly the best (or only) option. But a stadium course it ain't and the amount of construction that would be needed would close the place for months. If the European Tour really wanted it there, it could have happened but I can understand the members' point of view.

I would be far from convinced at how far the European Tour was pushing for Portmarnock in 2006. Dermot Gilleece had a piece last week explaining how it works and, even back then, commercialism trumped popularity and tradition. Also, you just can never trust those weather gods and that will always militate against a links course.

What they want, above all else, is dramatic golf, birdie blitzes, golfers peppering the flag, whipping the crowd into a frenzy or shutting them up. Of course there's no reason why that can't happen on a benignly-presented links course, but one day of gale-force winds and it becomes a grind and a bit too much of a lottery

First Up

cack_handed wrote: »

I would be far from convinced at how far the European Tour was pushing for Portmarnock in 2006. Dermot Gilleece had a piece last week explaining how it works and, even back then, commercialism trumped popularity and tradition. Also, you just can never trust those weather gods and that will always militate against a links course.

What they want, above all else, is dramatic golf, birdie blitzes, golfers peppering the flag, whipping the crowd into a frenzy or shutting them up. Of course there's no reason why that can't happen on a benignly-presented links course, but one day of gale-force winds and it becomes a grind and a bit too much of a lottery

Me too.

TrapperChamonix

gotapaininmy wrote: »

you're right there, stand corrected.

but Andy North??

So he named 3 VC's. Floyd (8 RC's as a player, 1 as a captain in '89 drawing in the Belfery & VC under Azinger), Steve Stricker (current player and RC in 2008 & 2010) and Andy North ( 2 time US Open winner and 1 RC). You can pick out North but why is he so different than Des Smyth. Let's also remember that a lot of questions were raised when McGinley named 5 VC's. If he had lost, he would have been hauled over the coals on that one.

Undoubtably McGinley put in an enormous amount of work prior to the RC. His decision to take on the captaincy of the Seve trophy was a very smart thing to do, both to help his candidacy and also to hone his own skills. Whether the blue and yellow fish or the posters made the difference in 2014, I doubt (did he do that in the Seve Trophy?). His Captains picks were iffy and other than Gallacher forcing his hand he was going to go for the old reliables (he's previously told GMac he'd give him a captains pick if he didn't qualify).
His (along with GMac) management of Dubuisson was very good. His management of Gallacher was not. If we'd lost, he'd be accused of overplaying Rose and underplaying GMac and lynched for his 5 VC's.

But if I'm wrong and all the preparation and management skills were the reason we won, can any one comment on Ollie's preparation and management* ? How was Woosie's attention to detail? How was Montys (its all about me) rapport with the team? Remember how Mark James was hailed as a genius in '99 on the Sat night. Seve himself seemed more a hindrance than anything in Valderama.

Win and you're a genius, loose and you are a fool.



*Des Smyths commented on OTB podcast before this Ryder Cup that the back room in Medinah was a mess and that was the reason McGinley picked 5 VC's. IIRC Peter Hanson was letting his unhappiness be known on the Sat afternoon.

cack_handed

I wasn't necessarily doubting what the previous poster said to be fair, as I dont recall the full story. Depends what exactly you mean by the European Tour, as naturally they dont all speak as one homogeneous body. But if you take Ken Schofield as the driving voice, which is fair I think, there was no chance it would ever go to Portmarnock or any other links course. Mount Juliet was probably the only other realistic alternative...

gotapaininmy

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

So he named 3 VC's. Floyd (8 RC's as a player, 1 as a captain in '89 drawing in the Belfery & VC under Azinger), Steve Stricker (current player and RC in 2008 & 2010) and Andy North ( 2 time US Open winner and 1 RC). You can pick out North but why is he so different than Des Smyth. Let's also remember that a lot of questions were raised when McGinley named 5 VC's. If he had lost, he would have been hauled over the coals on that one.

Undoubtably McGinley put in an enormous amount of work prior to the RC. His decision to take on the captaincy of the Seve trophy was a very smart thing to do, both to help his candidacy and also to hone his own skills. Whether the blue and yellow fish or the posters made the difference in 2014, I doubt (did he do that in the Seve Trophy?). His Captains picks were iffy and other than Gallacher forcing his hand he was going to go for the old reliables (he's previously told GMac he'd give him a captains pick if he didn't qualify).
His (along with GMac) management of Dubuisson was very good. His management of Gallacher was not. If we'd lost, he'd be accused of overplaying Rose and underplaying GMac and lynched for his 5 VC's.

But if I'm wrong and all the preparation and management skills were the reason we won, can any one comment on Ollie's preparation and management* ? How was Woosie's attention to detail? How was Montys (its all about me) rapport with the team? Remember how Mark James was hailed as a genius in '99 on the Sat night. Seve himself seemed more a hindrance than anything in Valderama.

Win and you're a genius, loose and you are a fool.



*Des Smyths commented on OTB podcast before this Ryder Cup that the back room in Medinah was a mess and that was the reason McGinley picked 5 VC's. IIRC Peter Hanson was letting his unhappiness be known on the Sat afternoon.

Reason I'm picking on Andy North is that he has had no involvement in any recent Ryder Cups. His only involvement was 29 years ago in the Belfry as a player.

I agree with you completely about McGinleys wild card picks, he talked on Sky and other outlets early in his captaincy on how the picks would be based on form. The only pick you can say was on form was Gallacher, Poulter and Westwood were picked on past performances and it showed, Poulter played poorly and Westwood rode Donaldson to his points haul and then was comfortably beaten in the singles. Gallacher was hard done by, firstly getting lumped with Poulter in the fourballs and then not getting another game after that. It's all moot now becuase Europe won but if they hadn't you can see the sticks you could be beating McGinley with.

BTW how did Des know what went on in Medinah? He wasn't a VC there was he? Was he giving info second hand presumably from McGinley? The whole 5 VC's was a joke, particularly the late addition of Harrington, seemed like he just wanted his buddies there.

Rikand

gotapaininmy wrote: »

The whole 5 VC's was a joke, particularly the late addition of Harrington, seemed like he just wanted his buddies there.

Well, it worked. brought in his buddies and they got the win.


one would say that the introduction of Andy North to the team was Watson doing the same. Brought in one of his buddies - didn't pay off for him though

gotapaininmy

Rikand wrote: »

Well, it worked. brought in his buddies and they got the win.


one would say that the introduction of Andy North to the team was Watson doing the same. Brought in one of his buddies - didn't pay off for him though

Oh absolutely, we won so McGinley was right to do whatever it took. Is Andy north a buddy of Watson's? That would explain it, he normally works for one of the TV stations over there though right?

Dtoffee

gotapaininmy wrote: »

The whole 5 VC's was a joke, particularly the late addition of Harrington, seemed like he just wanted his buddies there.

and what's wrong with that ? he obviously wanted people he could trust around him and even if he took 12 VCs, so what. Do you think the players agents / coaches / pals etc suddenly disappear during the Ryder Cup ? they all have opinions, they all promote their man and theres no doubt they all stir the **** when it suits ..... Mc Ginley managed it all brilliantly and theres no doubt in my mind that arming himself with a large experienced back up team enabled any little issue be dealt with quickly and not develop into a row.

I'm glad he won, because god knows what vitriol was going to unleashed upon him by the experts out there.

TrapperChamonix

gotapaininmy wrote: »

Reason I'm picking on Andy North is that he has had no involvement in any recent Ryder Cups. His only involvement was 29 years ago in the Belfry as a player.

I agree with you completely about McGinleys wild card picks, he talked on Sky and other outlets early in his captaincy on how the picks would be based on form. The only pick you can say was on form was Gallacher, Poulter and Westwood were picked on past performances and it showed, Poulter played poorly and Westwood rode Donaldson to his points haul and then was comfortably beaten in the singles. Gallacher was hard done by, firstly getting lumped with Poulter in the fourballs and then not getting another game after that. It's all moot now becuase Europe won but if they hadn't you can see the sticks you could be beating McGinley with.

BTW how did Des know what went on in Medinah? He wasn't a VC there was he? Was he giving info second hand presumably from McGinley? The whole 5 VC's was a joke, particularly the late addition of Harrington, seemed like he just wanted his buddies there.

Yes, he was relating what McGinley told him.

gotapaininmy

Dtoffee wrote: »

and what's wrong with that ? he obviously wanted people he could trust around him and even if he took 12 VCs, so what. Do you think the players agents / coaches / pals etc suddenly disappear during the Ryder Cup ? they all have opinions, they all promote their man and theres no doubt they all stir the **** when it suits ..... Mc Ginley managed it all brilliantly and theres no doubt in my mind that arming himself with a large experienced back up team enabled any little issue be dealt with quickly and not develop into a row.

I'm glad he won, because god knows what vitriol was going to unleashed upon him by the experts out there.

I'm glad he won too. Still think 5 VC's was too many. We won with 4 in 2012, 4 in 2010 (José was added as a fifth vice-captain midway through the tournament, becuase the revised format meant that there were not enough captains to cover all six matches), 2 in 2006 and 2 in 2004.

gotapaininmy

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Yes, he was relating what McGinley told him.

just aswell José doesn't listen to off the ball then!

Rikand

Dtoffee wrote: »

and what's wrong with that ? he obviously wanted people he could trust around him and even if he took 12 VCs, so what. Do you think the players agents / coaches / pals etc suddenly disappear during the Ryder Cup ? they all have opinions, they all promote their man and theres no doubt they all stir the **** when it suits ..... Mc Ginley managed it all brilliantly and theres no doubt in my mind that arming himself with a large experienced back up team enabled any little issue be dealt with quickly and not develop into a row.

I'm glad he won, because god knows what vitriol was going to unleashed upon him by the experts out there.

Experts out there

or

Experts in here

pelevin

I have to say the 5 European VCs ruined it for me. And people not realising how rubbish Poulter was, that ruined it for me too. And the various wives destroyed it altogether. Even Europe winning kind of wrecked it for me as interest in the Ryder Cup will dry up now. But if the US had won, that would have been worse again. I feel kind of empty now about it all. And to add, the lack of sponsors' names on players' caps made me feel lonely.

gotapaininmy

pelevin wrote: »

I have to say the 5 European VCs ruined it for me. And people not realising how rubbish Poulter was, that ruined it for me too. And the various wives destroyed it altogether. Even Europe winning kind of wrecked it for me as interest in the Ryder Cup will dry up now. But if the US had won, that would have been worse again. I feel kind of empty now about it all. And to add, the lack of sponsors' names on players' caps made me feel lonely.

:D:D

SnowDrifts

pelevin wrote: »

I have to say the 5 European VCs ruined it for me. And people not realising how rubbish Poulter was, that ruined it for me too. And the various wives destroyed it altogether. Even Europe winning kind of wrecked it for me as interest in the Ryder Cup will dry up now. But if the US had won, that would have been worse again. I feel kind of empty now about it all. And to add, the lack of sponsors' names on players' caps made me feel lonely.

I read the first line of this and was thinking "why the fook are so many people thanking this post!"

Dtoffee

SnowDrifts wrote: »

I read the first line of this and was thinking "why the fook are so many people thanking this post!"

I was the same until I realised Pelevin was auditioning for one of the 5 VC roles on the begrudging team

PARlance

pelevin wrote: »

I have to say the 5 European VCs ruined it for me. And people not realising how rubbish Poulter was, that ruined it for me too. And the various wives destroyed it altogether. Even Europe winning kind of wrecked it for me as interest in the Ryder Cup will dry up now. But if the US had won, that would have been worse again. I feel kind of empty now about it all. And to add, the lack of sponsors' names on players' caps made me feel lonely.

Thank fcuk for all the adverts on Sky is all I can say... They were a welcome relief from the torture

slave1

I'm watching some of the 4ball I missed Friday and Saturday morning and my word Poults hit some unbelievably poor shots, he killed Rory until towards the end of their round. I'm a big Poults fan but no part of his game has been there this year, McGinley would have been shot if he left him out and EUR lost so he had no choice really. I did feel for Poults, he was very fortunate with his halves and you could see the hesitation and nerve is his posture and swing, it was a tough RC watching him. He has not qualified since 2008 and I feel he needs to qualify to make the next one...

cack_handed

I have to say poulter was a lock for the team, no question about it...you cant look at a ryder cup record like that and ignore it, it stares you right in the face and shouts PICK ME!! But there were too many doubts about his form to pair him with the rookie Gallacher on Friday morning and that's not hindsight - lots of people flagged that when the pairings were announced. And even when he was stinking the place out alongside McIlroy, it was odds on he'd come up with something a crazy chip in or a monster putt to save the day......that was a massive moment as it prevented the Americans from finishing the day 6-6. Typical Poulter really

I wouldnt give McGinley a lot of credit for the pick either, it was an easy one to make in my view. But he misused Poulter slightly so it maybe wasnt the perfect captaincy that people made it out to be, but it was good enough