is it ever ok to punch a bully in the f**kin face?

clappyhappy

When my daughter started juniors there was 5 in her class. 3 boys 2 girls. 1 of the boys was always causing disruption in class, picking on another boy, refusing to do as teacher asked.

He had a habit of breaking other kids pencils, scribbling on their books etc. beginning of each year they go for 8 weeks of swimming lessons. One day my daughter said she would be his partner as no one else would. On way home they always got a treat as suggested by teacher. This kid wanted my daughters treat as he had none, it was a one piece of twix you get in Heros sweet box at christmas, tiny. She said no as it was hers and only small. He kept at her, on and on. He then pulled her hair and punched her in stomach, at which point she slapped him across the face!!!!!!!! When teacher told me, I apologised, but then said I was glad she could stand up for herself. Personally I was very proud of her, but had to say you can't do that, should have hold a teacher....... They are now great friends, no one else had stood up to him and she takes no ****e from anyone!!

kowloon

Czarcasm wrote: »

OP don't listen to your wife at all, get good, solid advice from the Internet -

Send your child into school with a machete and order him to behead anyone who so much as glances in his direction.

That'll learn 'em.

The other kids will soon fall into line when he drinks his milk from a chalice made of a human skull.

worded

I got a bully on the ground when i was about 13 and was thumping him and the dean of boys lifted me off him and positioned me directly horizontal over him. The elevation was so precise that I just had to, and did, give the bast@rd a right hook. His head shook to the side and he spat blood.

The dean used me to thump him as legally he couldn't.

The dean told me to tell everyone I got a 1000 lines but I didn't have to do them. Cool man

I never got bullied again ever. You need rep on the school ground.

I never started a fight, but I always ended them from that time to this day

Bullies need their asses kicked, end of story

My primary school teacher told the class, and he was referring to one thug in the class, that one day they will pick on what seemed like an easy target. The bully will get a hiding. I was that target a year later and he was the bully.

kiffer

There are different types of bullies.
Someone mentioned the possibility that hitting the bully back might cause the bully to hit more or harder.
If that is the case then the bully is probably a total nut job and reporting the incident is also likely to result in additional bullying.

Let's say Billy the bully slaps Timmy the Target in the back of the head when he walks past...
This is carefully done and basically invisible to the teachers. Or another school of thought is that the teachers just ignore it.
So what are Timmy's options?
Report, Retreat, Retaliation.
Retreat is the worst, he'll end up far more damaged by hiding from the problem, looking for excuses to skip school, gym, faking being sick to avoid the yard at lunch time.
Report is only marginally better. Either nothing will happen or the bully will be called on it in some way which may bring more bullying into play, from the bully or from the bully's friends.
Retaliation... retaliate in kind, escalate a little, not totally disproportionately but maybe even the odds a little.
Worst case is that the Target hits back and the the bully gets a bit more punchy and beats the target.
The teachers may ignore the slap to the head but they'll have a harder time ignoring the fight.

Now I'm not saying go straight to beating the bully, Billy, with blunch branch but work up to fighting back.
1st time he does something avoid him, and tell your parents.
2nd time? Report him to a teacher and say it has happened before and tell your parents, and tell the teacher you are telling your parents to avoid "Timmy don't tell tales".
3rd time... you've reported it to more than once, nothing has been done, you can learn to be helpless or you can hit the fecker back, hard.

Barely There

If history has taught us anything, it's that the only way to respond to violence is with more violence.

I have a 5 year old who has just started Junior Infants and I've told him that if any child starts to bully him he needs to stand up for himself.
In my view, the best approach is to go 'totally medieval', that is respond with violence which is wildly disproportionate to the original incident.
For example, if my child was punched in the stomach, I've instructed him to pick up a large stone and cave the bully's head in.

It's really the only way to deal with these incidents.

Irishcrx

It's a tough one really , I'm on the fence with how to deal with it. My little lad isn't in school yet but will be shortly and this is going to be something I'm eventually going to have to deal with (Every parent does). Every school has bullies and most kids at some point will be bullied in one way shape or another.

On one hand , The thought of anyone bullying my son boils my blood of course I wouldn't want him hurt in any way and wouldn't want to encourage him putting himself in danger, on the other hand I don't really believe going crying to teacher works many times at that age it just makes the situation worst for the child involved , it's sad but that's the way it is I think.

I was bullied in primary school for a short while but when I decided to fight back it stopped, I didn't involve my parents/teachers anything just ended up in a couple of fights on the school yard. Sometimes I got decked and sometimes I decked them but like you said in the original post after a couple of weeks it stopped because I was too much hassle , the lads doing it knew I'd hit them a dig back and had a temper so they didn't bother with me anymore and moved on to someone who wouldn't stand up to them. By the end of primary I just got on with everyone and the same in secondary.

So I guess my advice to my little fella when this comes up will be to hit them back and stand up for himself but to tell me what's going on. I'll also be putting him into self defence classes early, IMO every parent should be do this in this day and age.

I don't believer violence really solves anything however I think a lot of people are conflicted about this where bully's are concerned. I know some one who waited till after the leaving cert to give a bully a punch because they knew they might get suspended if they did it in the school term.

caolfx

mariaalice wrote: »

I don't believer violence.

Well the fact is, when it comes it bullies, it does.

I wonder how many of the 'violence doesn't solve anything' posters have been bullied?

I was when I was very young. Kid's parents did nothing, school did nothing and on and on it went until one day I lost it and beat seven shades of shi!t out of the little knacker and a couple of others. That was the end of it.

FTA69

I was bullied at the age of 12 and it was completely ignored by the teachers and those who were supposed to have a duty of care, I actually think one individual teacher encouraged it due to having an irrational dislike of me. One evening I finally snapped and decided to physically confront my bullies...

whereupon they promptly beat the p*ss out of me, stuffed me into a bin and it got even worse.

A lot of people are being overly simplistic in their commentary on this thread; "hit him once and he'll leave you alone" isn't an automatic response to every situation. It certainly isn't a good idea when the people bullying you can easily give you a hiding that'll only compound your humiliation. Bullying can happen for a myriad of reasons; because a girl is pretty or because she isn't, because someone is smart or because they aren't; because someone is extrovert or because they're quiet. For me, I was just a slightly eccentric child who was dealing with a lot of terrible family problems at the time and obviously that marked me out as an easy target; the people who did that to me also had issues and I became the focal point of their bonding process.

Bullying is a terrible thing and to be honest, while challenging it directly can work on some occasions, it isn't a catch all solution that some are making it out to be.

Czarcasm

SuperOito wrote: »

Well the fact is, when it comes it bullies, it does.

There's mountains of research that says punitive or retaliatory approaches to bullying don't solve anything, so your assertion above is false.

I wonder how many of the 'violence doesn't solve anything' posters have been bullied?

I have, and my son has, in fact I know plenty of people who have been bullied in school and I know of children who are currently being bullied in school, and now with social media so prevalent in our lives, the bullying doesn't stop at the school gates.

Ush1

I think the best you can do if you're a parent is encouraging your child to do martial arts but also engage with the school and perhaps even the other childs parents.

I have a baby son and will be enrolling him in martial arts from a young age. I did martial arts myself but also had the benefit of being beaten up by my older brothers so for a long time fighting wasn't a big deal to me.

FTA69

Most martial arts are a load of b*llocks anyway, especially karate and Tae-kwon do etc. The best thing is to get him into boxing or Thai boxing. There's a 14 year old Chechen kid in our gym and half of the grown men don't like sparring him.

Ush1

FTA69 wrote: »

Most martial arts are a load of b*llocks anyway, especially karate and Tae-kwon do etc. The best thing is to get him into boxing or Thai boxing. There's a 14 year old Chechen kid in our gym and half of the grown men don't like sparring him.

Yeah, was judo I did and then boxing for a while when I was older.

I'll try him with a few ones and see what he likes, as that's really the most important thing.

FTA69

Ush1 wrote: »

Yeah, was judo I did and then boxing for a while when I was older.

I'll try him with a few ones and see what he likes, as that's really the most important thing.

Definitely, Judo is fantastic as well. Anything that has them doing a bit of sparring really.

Aethan Dor

I have to say as a newish Dad to 2 under 2 these situations are the kind I'm dreading and hope we get through ok, I'm worried cos I'd have a bit of a temper and wouldn't abide much when it comes to anything happening my kids ! Yikes

Vet Thrower

My eldest is now 6 and in senior infants. When his little brother was born, he was a bit put out naturally, and would try to hurt him whenever he got the chance. Nothing serious, but just pushing him out of his way, grabbing stuff off him and this kind of thing.

We clamped down on this very firmly, so much so that by the time he was starting primary school, more than anything it was the little guy pushing his big brother around.

Then he started bringing home stories featuring a certain kid in his class who was always pushing him and hitting him and so on. I told him that he had to push back and hit back hard, so he did. But it turned out that the kid in question was autistic...

To sum up, pretty much every thing you do as a parent turns out to be wrong.

Noobascious

I stuck up for myself and the little/poor fellas. Got me absolutely nowhere people think I'm a thug now

looking_around

Czarcasm wrote: »

There's mountains of research that says punitive or retaliatory approaches to bullying don't solve anything, so your assertion above is false.

so what would you suggest?

I have, and my son has, in fact I know plenty of people who have been bullied in school and I know of children who are currently being bullied in school, and now with social media so prevalent in our lives, the bullying doesn't stop at the school gates.

Well, when it comes to the internet, that's easily solved, prevent your kid from friending just anyone on facebook, or better yet, keep your kid off facebook.
Teach your kid how to block the bullies/ignore them.

Czarcasm

looking_around wrote: »

so what would you suggest?

Well every suggestion that doesn't involve violence or retaliation has been shouted down here (as expected, which is why I couldn't take this thread seriously in the first place and suggested that the OP send their child into school with a machete and behead anyone who looks at them sideways. The thread was bound to get around to it eventually!), so I don't expect many will pay much heed to the standard guidelines based on reality and evidence based research rather than anecdotes that suit the individual.

Well, when it comes to the internet, that's easily solved, prevent your kid from friending just anyone on facebook, or better yet, keep your kid off facebook.
Teach your kid how to block the bullies/ignore them.

If only the solution to bullying were that easy.

krudler

I went to school with a lad who was always getting picked on until he boxed one of the usual culprits in the mouth out in the yard one day. That was the end of it then, so I wouldn't say violence never solved anything. Usually bullies are just getting away with picking on people until those people stand up for themselves.

looking_around

Czarcasm wrote: »

Well every suggestion that doesn't involve violence or retaliation has been shouted down here (as expected, which is why I couldn't take this thread seriously in the first place and suggested that the OP send their child into school with a machete and behead anyone who looks at them sideways. The thread was bound to get around to it eventually!), so I don't expect many will pay much heed to the standard guidelines based on reality and evidence based research rather than anecdotes that suit the individual.

right because the standard "tell a teacher", works excellently does it?

If only the solution to bullying were that easy.

for internet bullying it is.

Its not like being attacked in the hall, its over the internet, if the kid isn't being protected from the likes, the parents clearly aren't paying much attention to their kid and time online.

0byme75341jo28

Vet Thrower wrote: »

My eldest is now 6 and in senior infants. When his little brother was born, he was a bit put out naturally, and would try to hurt him whenever he got the chance. Nothing serious, but just pushing him out of his way, grabbing stuff off him and this kind of thing.

We clamped down on this very firmly, so much so that by the time he was starting primary school, more than anything it was the little guy pushing his big brother around.

Then he started bringing home stories featuring a certain kid in his class who was always pushing him and hitting him and so on. I told him that he had to push back and hit back hard, so he did. But it turned out that the kid in question was autistic...

To sum up, pretty much every thing you do as a parent turns out to be wrong.

I honestly wouldn't even care if he was autistic, He was still treating your son like shit, at least your son stood up for himself.

How were you, or your son, to know he was autistic?

Roger Hassenforder

Czarcasm wrote: »

Well every suggestion that doesn't involve violence or retaliation has been shouted down here (as expected, which is why I couldn't take this thread seriously in the first place and suggested that the OP send their child into school with a machete and behead anyone who looks at them sideways. The thread was bound to get around to it eventually!), so I don't expect many will pay much heed to the standard guidelines based on reality and evidence based research rather than anecdotes that suit the individual.

it seems many here live in an alternate reality so.
many of these "anecdotes" are personal testimonies of being bullied, and how they handled it. Some successfully, some not so. And while there isn't a silver bullet for dealing with bullies, I wouldn't be so smugly dismissive.

krudler

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

it seems many here live in an alternate reality so.
many of these "anecdotes" are personal testimonies of being bullied, and how they handled it. Some successfully, some not so. And while there isn't a silver bullet for dealing with bullies, I wouldn't be so smugly dismissive.

Czar's reality is the only reality apparently.

Wabbit Ears

My kid does tae Kwon do, publicly its for , you know, fitness and sh1t but in reality I want her to roundhouse the d1ckhead kid on our street that hits her and his parents see him doing this and never do anything about it. Yep, right in the fcuking face. It will be a glorious day.

rob316

It's tough one but from my experiences in school I would encourage my own child to stand up quick for yourself and hit back. Wether you take a beating or not is irrelevant the bully won't be as quick to try it on again. They want an easy target not someone who will hit them in the mouth.

It's a nasty situation, we have all heard suicide stories and that. What I have also seen is a bully get his dues in spectacular fashion.
It was about 3rd or 4th year in secondary, There was a lad in our class a quiet guy but fairly ordinary, another fella tormented him for 2 years until he snapped.
He punched him square in the face a few times then picked up his chair and beat the piss out of him with it, all in front of a female teacher who got a smack from him also for trying to break it up.
It took 6 of us to pull him off the bully in the end if it went on any longer he would probably have killed him. It was a bloodbath, the bullies face was like a tap.

Ya see that what 2 years of daily abuse can do to someone who usually wouldn't be capable of such violence.

Luckily the lad wasn't expelled permanently as the school were warned repeatedly by students, other teachers and his parents that he was been targeted, and failed to do anything. They were actually sued for negligence as it all could have been avoided.

rob316

Royalty Aggressive Musket wrote: »

I honestly wouldn't even care if he was autistic, He was still treating your son like shit, at least your son stood up for himself.

How were you, or your son, to know he was autistic?

As someone with an autistic son I agree. If that child is in a mainstream school he should know wrong from right regardless. Been autistic is no excuse.

0byme75341jo28

rob316 wrote: »

As someone with an autistic son I agree. If that child is in a mainstream school he should know wrong from right regardless. Been autistic is no excuse.

Woah, was expecting an earful after reading the first 6 words. :pac:

I agree with you though.

Donnielighto

kryogen wrote: »

I follow a simple enough mantra, I tell my kids to be nice to everybody, but if someone pushes then push back, if they hit then hit back harder. Always start from a point of trying to get along though, sometimes it just isnt possible and I would rather they are able to stand up for themselves then be walked all over.

I have no worries about them becoming thugs because treating everyone with respect first and foremost is something I try to teach them to live by

Never imagined you having kids

The King of Moo

MAKE THE YOUNG CHILDREN FIGHT!!

MAKE THEM HURT EACH OTHER!!