MATCH THREAD: Connacht vs Leinster, 19th Sept 2014 19:35, The Sportgroud, TG4

thomond2006

3 wins from 3 would be huge for Connacht. Hope the Sportsground is packed.

freyners

sydthebeat wrote: »

ive been in the sports ground on a christmas week versus connacht and i can tell you 'rain and sleet' is not a lazy stereotype.

my point is that leinster may have been complacent or ill prepared previously whereas they certainly should not be this time, they have had their asses handed to them on a plate by being out played AND by being out fought. read joe schmidts comments after the 34 - 6 game for example.

they are always hard fought games

Being in the sportsground for a long time I know that that weather aint foreign to us and during the winter can be something of a mainstay.

But your comment was that this isn't a Leinster squad arriving in rain and sleet, weakened. By your reasoning the lack of rain and sleet doesn't play into our favour. Most of our big wins (bar quins really) come on nights with perfect conditions. Hence why i called it a lazy stereotype

Ill admit I'm overly sensitive to comments like it. Last time RTE somehow ended up in the SG for a connacht game they made a comment on the same lines and it was the most lazy, ill informed thing I've seen.

freyners

former legend wrote: »

Not sure I get what you mean by out of touch but...

Connacht's recent history is peppered with big results that they haven't been able to follow up. Their biggest win ever in Toulouse was followed up by concession of a try bp at home the following week. Saracens snuck out of Galway with a narrow win and what happened in the return leg? The previous season, pretty much the exact same with Quins and Biarritz. Is there not a pattern there? Fool me once, etc. Since the 34-6 game, their record against Leinster is P3 L3.

Now, I've amplified my point with concrete examples. If it's an inconvenient truth for you, I'm sorry about that, but lazy it is not.

and if you had posted something like this I wouldn't have said it. Saying it wont work in Connacht's favour without giving at least some reason why is lazy mate. Its a meaningless comment unless your going to give it context

porterbelly

Deleted User wrote: »

Mike McCarthy is/was the difference

Without tempting fate, the same Mike McCarthy won't be facing us tomorrow night. I think we got the best out of him, he seems to be very leggy and not doing much carrying these days. He was hugely destructive for us in his last couple of seasons especially. I think with the improvement in the scrum and if we had a fit Heenan, having the old Macca in that pack, along with the potential for the backline to fire would make a huge difference to a chance of top 6 spot.

As it is, I still think we lack that big tight forward who can put us on the front foot with a big strong carry out of nowhere.

Some of our lads need to have huge games tomorrow night. Hugely looking forward to the game (disgusted I can't make it as am exiled.) Great chance for the likes of Carty/Niyi/Leader/Heffernan to step up.

Expect Leo Cullen to be intent on going after our lineout with Heff and Delahunt as hookers, and no Clarke in the 2nd row. Hope Buckley can get under Mike Ross a bit and make it uncomfortable. Very hard to see us winning it unless we can have 100% from the tee and shut down Heaslip and Ruddock.

Leinster by 6

Evil_g

AngeGal wrote: »

Galway Bay fm will be doing live commentary but it's usually five or six seconds ahead of the tv so too annoying to watch with TG4 on, if that was your plan.

Stream the Galway Bay commentary on your phone and pause it until it's right.

former legend

freyners wrote: »

and if you had posted something like this I wouldn't have said it. Saying it wont work in Connacht's favour without giving at least some reason why is lazy mate. Its a meaningless comment unless your going to give it context

Seems the thing to do there would have been to ask me what I meant rather than sticking the boot in. Look at the first post on this thread. I'm not a lazy poster.

The Lost Sheep

Robbo wrote: »

Pretty nice evening two years ago in October as well, if memory serves.

I have no idea how this game will end up only that I'm delighted to be able to go when I expected to be elsewhere this weekend.

Im working at game in terrace. Refereed few games there and been to loads of club, underage and schools games there but first professional game there...

I can only see an away win by about a score. Would love to see Connacht win but cant see them doing it unless kicking is 100% and they can stop Leinster's backrow from doing a lot of damage...

freyners

former legend wrote: »

Seems the thing to do there would have been to ask me what I meant rather than sticking the boot in. Look at the first post on this thread. I'm not a lazy poster.

Fair enough. I already had enjoyed the preview (having tried a few, I know they aint easy to do) and didnt want to stir things up. My apologies for any offence taken

connachta

Just spent a moment to calculate the weights of the packs

Connacht: 896 kg
Leinster : 902 kg

based on official figures, which are what they are...

molloyjh

Another factor which hasn't been mentioned is that in games against good quality opposition you have got to take your points when they are on offer. In other words you need a reliable place kicker. Mads was 100% last week. Leader was 50%. Add to that Cartys poor performance (and I'm sure Ryan will be told to target him as a weak link in the Connacht backline) and I just don't see where Connacht can win it unless one or both of those lads step it up a few notches.

ssaye2

Thornley

Connacht have retained 22-year-old Jack Rugby at outhalf

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/connacht-can-make-real-statement-of-intent-1.1934024

With a name like that he must be good

connemara man

ssaye2 wrote: »

Thornley

Connacht have retained 22-year-old Jack Rugby at outhalf

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/pro12/connacht-can-make-real-statement-of-intent-1.1934024

With a name like that he must be good

connachta

molloyjh wrote: »

Another factor which hasn't been mentioned is that in games against good quality opposition you have got to take your points when they are on offer. In other words you need a reliable place kicker. Mads was 100% last week. Leader was 50%. Add to that Cartys poor performance (and I'm sure Ryan will be told to target him as a weak link in the Connacht backline) and I just don't see where Connacht can win it unless one or both of those lads step it up a few notches.

There, I just 100% agree. I maintain Connacht won't lose the forwards battle or even the backs battle per se. but they could well lose the batlle of precision, acuracy, focus, opportunism, refereeing
What makes the diff between a good team and a good team under construction

Larbre34

Yeah I think Leinster will have learned to soak up early flurries from teams who target their fixture and go out to topple them. If they keep it simple early on, put the kind of structured play together that others have mentioned that creates opportunities for the moments of flair, I think they'll win reasonably well. Front row and back row to create penalty opportunities and positions.

Leinster by 9.

sydthebeat

connachta wrote: »

There, I just 100% agree. I maintain Connacht won't lose the forwards battle or even the backs battle per se. but they could well lose the batlle of precision, acuracy, focus, opportunism, refereeing
What makes the diff between a good team and a good team under construction

ah come on now, blaming a ref even before the game starts???

Lacey is a good ref, despite what some ulster fans still think.

shuffol

Think Connacht have enough to beat Leinster but the key guy will be Carty, think he'll have to produce a performance above anything I've seen from him yet for them to win.

connachta

sydthebeat wrote: »

ah come on now, blaming a ref even before the game starts???

Lacey is a good ref, despite what some ulster fans still think.

Sorry did someone else think I blamed him????:eek:
What a extensive interpretation, I'm puzzled

.ak

sydthebeat wrote: »

ah come on now, blaming a ref even before the game starts???

Lacey is a good ref, despite what some one ulster fan still think.

FYP

connachta

And without blaming anyone, YES Lacey has a style of refereeing which doesn't suit Connacht, very severe for the team in possession. That's a fact, but keep it calm for the moment, wait and see how many penalties for "not releasing" or "off feet" will he blow...

The Lost Sheep

connachta wrote: »

And without blaming anyone, YES Lacey has a style of refereeing which doesn't suit Connacht, very severe for the team in possession. That's a fact, but keep it calm for the moment, wait and see how many penalties for "not releasing" or "off feet" will he blow...

You play and adapt your game within reason to the ref on the day at this level. All referee's take different approaches on different strands to the game. You shouldn't be whinging about him as he has constantly refereed like that through his career as a ref. You adapt yourselves to how a referee approaches different aspects of the game. That's part of analysis role at this level.

ssaye2

I blame the pigeon that is flying around the ground at the moment. Going to have to adapt my kicking style.

former legend

connachta wrote: »

And without blaming anyone, YES Lacey has a style of refereeing which doesn't suit Connacht, very severe for the team in possession. That's a fact, but keep it calm for the moment, wait and see how many penalties for "not releasing" or "off feet" will he blow...

Why should any of that suit Connacht less than Leinster?

Zzippy

former legend wrote: »

Why should any of that suit Connacht less than Leinster?

Cos we'll have all the possession, silly!

.ak

For me, I think the key is Leinster have two of the strongest pair of mitts in Ireland on their starting line up. Maccer and Rhys. Despite what some Connacht fans think Maccer hasn't gone backwards, if anything I think he's improved, fitness wise.

For some reason though Maccer gets a bit of a bad rep, I don't know if it's the fact he started slowly when he came to Leinster (understandably, it's a different environment with probably a higher fitness standard), or perhaps it's because he slips tackles a few times (I don't have an issue with it tbh, so long as he slows his man down. He's a lock, not a centre), but people just seem to have a question mark over his head.

When he got into full swing around winter I thought he was easily one of Leinster's best forwards, just because of sheer strength and work rate. For a big, lumbering aul' lad he can be quite dynamic when he wants to be, but his support role is where he really shines. Next time you're at a live game just follow him around the pitch, you'll pick up on things you'll never see on TV. He follows rucks like an openside and he absolutely minces them, then on D he is probably only beaten in strength in the tackle area by Rhys. When the two of them combine it's an absolute nightmare for teams to actually try and gain field position. The Ulster game in the RDS last season was a great example, the two of them literally strangled the life out Ulster and at times they looked frustrated and couldn't get out of their 22.

I think that's what the winning and losing of the game will be. Maccer is in good nick and looked pretty mobile last week, but perhaps not quite in his groove yet. Rhys will be coming in pretty cold. If they can warm up to the game sooner rather than later they'll put the hurt on Connacht, and I think that what MOC will look to do; frustrate them and keep it tight. That Connacht team is decent, but the reality is they wouldn't have the same mentality as Leinster when the squeeze comes on. It'll be about who can survive the storm for the longest period of the game, whoever cracks first will likely sneak the lead and then it'll be about maintaining that. I don't see this being a high scoring game but ideally from a Leinster point of view I'd like to see a well drilled pack being dominant, regardless of the scoreline.

former legend

Zzippy wrote: »

Cos we'll have all the possession, silly!

Doh, my bad!

.ak

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You play and adapt your game within reason to the ref on the day at this level. All referee's take different approaches on different strands to the game. You shouldn't be whinging about him as he has constantly refereed like that through his career as a ref. You adapt yourselves to how a referee approaches different aspects of the game. That's part of analysis role at this level.

That's it. If a ref is penalizing you alot for how to take the ball into contact well then you don't, play a kicking game and let see if the other team can survive the whistle...

connachta

.ak wrote: »

That's it. If a ref is penalizing you alot for how to take the ball into contact well then you don't, play a kicking game and let see if the other team can survive the whistle...

too simple, you all say a team must adapt to the ref, but you don't recognize some styles of refereeing is adaquate to some styles of playing and structures which can't be changed in a day

Zzippy

.ak wrote: »

For me, I think the key is Leinster have two of the strongest pair of mitts in Ireland on their starting line up. Maccer and Rhys. Despite what some Connacht fans think Maccer hasn't gone backwards, if anything I think he's improved, fitness wise.

For some reason though Maccer gets a bit of a bad rep, I don't know if it's the fact he started slowly when he came to Leinster (understandably, it's a different environment with probably a higher fitness standard), or perhaps it's because he slips tackles a few times (I don't have an issue with it tbh, so long as he slows his man down. He's a lock, not a centre), but people just seem to have a question mark over his head.

When he got into full swing around winter I thought he was easily one of Leinster's best forwards, just because of sheer strength and work rate. For a big, lumbering aul' lad he can be quite dynamic when he wants to be, but his support role is where he really shines. Next time you're at a live game just follow him around the pitch, you'll pick up on things you'll never see on TV. He follows rucks like an openside and he absolutely minces them, then on D he is probably only beaten in strength in the tackle area by Rhys. When the two of them combine it's an absolute nightmare for teams to actually try and gain field position. The Ulster game in the RDS last season was a great example, the two of them literally strangled the life out Ulster and at times they looked frustrated and couldn't get out of their 22.

I think that's what the winning and losing of the game will be. Maccer is in good nick and looked pretty mobile last week, but perhaps not quite in his groove yet. Rhys will be coming in pretty cold. If they can warm up to the game sooner rather than later they'll put the hurt on Connacht, and I think that what MOC will look to do; frustrate them and keep it tight. That Connacht team is decent, but the reality is they wouldn't have the same mentality as Leinster when the squeeze comes on. It'll be about who can survive the storm for the longest period of the game, whoever cracks first will likely sneak the lead and then it'll be about maintaining that. I don't see this being a high scoring game but ideally from a Leinster point of view I'd like to see a well drilled pack being dominant, regardless of the scoreline.

Argh, this is a bugbear of mine! FWIW I agree about Macca and his ability, was a big fan of his while he was here and couldn't understand the criticism of him from some Leinster fans when he moved. I don't buy the fitness thing though, that's something that annoys me - it's a lazy cliche at this stage.

When Connacht beat Toulouse last January it was their fitness that won it - the line speed and defence in the last few minutes of a hectic match was what got us over the line. Teams are professionally trained, and scientifically monitored wrt fitness levels, Connacht included. Macca was already in the Ireland setup before he went to Leinster so he was monitored at a higher level too - if they were unsatisfied with his fitness he wouldn't have been making international squads.

Personally I think it's a lazy stereotype to excuse a player not bringing his best form to a new club - oh, we had to get him up to our standard of fitness. Fionn Carr returned to Connacht last year and didn't perform as well as he did when he was here previously but I didn't hear any complaints that he wasn't fit from his time at Leinster...

its_phil

.ak wrote: »

For me, I think the key is Leinster have two of the strongest pair of mitts in Ireland on their starting line up. Maccer and Rhys. Despite what some Connacht fans think Maccer hasn't gone backwards, if anything I think he's improved, fitness wise.

For some reason though Maccer gets a bit of a bad rep, I don't know if it's the fact he started slowly when he came to Leinster (understandably, it's a different environment with probably a higher fitness standard), or perhaps it's because he slips tackles a few times (I don't have an issue with it tbh, so long as he slows his man down. He's a lock, not a centre), but people just seem to have a question mark over his head.

When he got into full swing around winter I thought he was easily one of Leinster's best forwards, just because of sheer strength and work rate. For a big, lumbering aul' lad he can be quite dynamic when he wants to be, but his support role is where he really shines. Next time you're at a live game just follow him around the pitch, you'll pick up on things you'll never see on TV. He follows rucks like an openside and he absolutely minces them, then on D he is probably only beaten in strength in the tackle area by Rhys. When the two of them combine it's an absolute nightmare for teams to actually try and gain field position. The Ulster game in the RDS last season was a great example, the two of them literally strangled the life out Ulster and at times they looked frustrated and couldn't get out of their 22.

I think that's what the winning and losing of the game will be. Maccer is in good nick and looked pretty mobile last week, but perhaps not quite in his groove yet. Rhys will be coming in pretty cold. If they can warm up to the game sooner rather than later they'll put the hurt on Connacht, and I think that what MOC will look to do; frustrate them and keep it tight. That Connacht team is decent, but the reality is they wouldn't have the same mentality as Leinster when the squeeze comes on. It'll be about who can survive the storm for the longest period of the game, whoever cracks first will likely sneak the lead and then it'll be about maintaining that. I don't see this being a high scoring game but ideally from a Leinster point of view I'd like to see a well drilled pack being dominant, regardless of the scoreline.

Pretty sure it's Macca mate! Don't think he's gone backwards but probably hasn't kicked on as much as he would have liked. He's picked up injuries though IIRC. His tackling certainly isn't something that never went unnoticed down here. If himself or Swift tackled a player high and held them you knew a turnover was coming.

.ak

I'm not sure I agree there Zzippy. I know Connacht are a professional team, and I really, really don't want to come across as patronizing, but I just don't believe all the provinces are on a level pegging in terms of conditioning, and more to the point, what type of conditioning is required for players in particular positions. A great case point is Hagan. He wasn't fit enough when he arrived from Connacht, quite simply because of the way we use our props around the park. That doesn't mean he wasn't fit, just not fit enough for how we wanted to use him. I think it was the same for Maccer.

Also, regarding his Irish squad involvement, he was coming off the bench for most of his games, and in 20 minutes he was absolutely beat in some of them. It was never officially said, but a lot of the Irish staff I talked to mentioned he was there for strength and skill rather than fitness, and that he was told his fitness levels needed to improve. There's been plenty of previous players that went the same route with Irish setups, nobody is expected to be at the fitness level required on their first outing.